Generations Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Trump actually calling for a ban on bump stocks. Im kinda shocked. Maybe he thought he was saying Trump stocks. A ban on the decline of Trump stocks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango kid Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 you'll be surprised how common is for a kid to kill himself in school at school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 you'll be surprised how common is for a kid to kill himself in school at school In school and at school? That's a double tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ! Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 A kid at my college jumped out a top floor window of one of our office buildings a couple years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Figured. Thought he was bdon, actually, back when I actually took him seriously. Who was he? Glad I stopped reading his posts yesterday or few days ago though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Wait. How would you think that was me? Come on. The signs were obvious. High-tech equipment, never in the same place, the only billionaire with access to that stuff and on top of that you use your alias as your avatar on a public forum. Shit, they're on to me. Um, I'm not sure what you mean. This is a picture of me here. Definitely not who you think I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Figured. Thought he was bdon, actually, back when I actually took him seriously. Who was he? Glad I stopped reading his posts yesterday or few days ago though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Wait. How would you think that was me? Come on. The signs were obvious. High-tech equipment, never in the same place, the only billionaire with access to that stuff and on top of that you use your alias as your avatar on a public forum. Shit, they're on to me. Um, I'm not sure what you mean. This is a picture of me here. Definitely not who you think I am. Hm...My bad. Messed this up then. Carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Figured. Thought he was bdon, actually, back when I actually took him seriously. Who was he? Glad I stopped reading his posts yesterday or few days ago though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Wait. How would you think that was me? Come on. The signs were obvious. High-tech equipment, never in the same place, the only billionaire with access to that stuff and on top of that you use your alias as your avatar on a public forum. Shit, they're on to me. Um, I'm not sure what you mean. This is a picture of me here. Definitely not who you think I am. Hm...My bad. Messed this up then. Carry on Happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Yeah people have to accept people. Can. Do,horrible stuff doesnt mean he mentally ill just evil Wrong statement is wrong. Was wrong before. Still wrong. Especially the bit about "people need to accept". I don't need to accept horrible behavior. I can vilify it, and I can call it like it is. I can say that someone is not right in the head...because they do something horrible. I think people have entirely too narrow of a concept regarding what "mental health" is. And we've had this discussion in the past. Mental health is not merely a discussion of whether you have dementia, depression, schizophrenia, etc. That is a very black and white way of thinking about mental health. Mental health is much more than that. Any person who wakes up and thinks "I'd like to shoot some people who I don't even know, today" is absolutely mentally ill. Period. I think people get caught up on this hangup that calling someone mentally ill gives them an excuse for their behavior. It doesn't. Mental illness is an excuse for certain behaviors depending on what that illness is. But to lump all mental illness together and act like it's always an excuse, or that it's a "cop-out" is where people go wrong. Fact is, science is not 100% accurate. We can diagnose different types of mental illness...and then we have other forms of mental illness that just go undetected. You don't need a diagnosable form of illness to be considered ill. You might pass all traditional tests, but if you go out and kill a bunch of people for no reason, no mental healthcare practitioner is about to say "oh...he was mentally okay". No, they would say "clearly we missed that one". Now...there are brief psychotic breaks. A jaded lover might stab someone to death or do something in the heat of a moment. And again...that would be a break. That person wouldn't be mentally ill...but you could argue that they lost control. When it comes to someone premeditating a massacre, though...that is not a break, that is an unstable mind. No words can convince me that behavior like that is on level with a keen mind. That's a definite sign that something has gone awry. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Figured. Thought he was bdon, actually, back when I actually took him seriously. Who was he? Glad I stopped reading his posts yesterday or few days ago though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Wait. How would you think that was me? Similar views, if not almost the same, based on our past arguments. Dunno if EJ remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Yeah people have to accept people. Can. Do,horrible stuff doesnt mean he mentally ill just evil Wrong statement is wrong. Was wrong before. Still wrong. Especially the bit about "people need to accept". I don't need to accept horrible behavior. I can vilify it, and I can call it like it is. I can say that someone is not right in the head...because they do something horrible. I think people have entirely too narrow of a concept regarding what "mental health" is. And we've had this discussion in the past. Mental health is not merely a discussion of whether you have dementia, depression, schizophrenia, etc. That is a very black and white way of thinking about mental health. Mental health is much more than that. Any person who wakes up and thinks "I'd like to shoot some people who I don't even know, today" is absolutely mentally ill. Period. I think people get caught up on this hangup that calling someone mentally ill gives them an excuse for their behavior. It doesn't. Mental illness is an excuse for certain behaviors depending on what that illness is. But to lump all mental illness together and act like it's always an excuse, or that it's a "cop-out" is where people go wrong. Fact is, science is not 100% accurate. We can diagnose different types of mental illness...and then we have other forms of mental illness that just go undetected. You don't need a diagnosable form of illness to be considered ill. You might pass all traditional tests, but if you go out and kill a bunch of people for no reason, no mental healthcare practitioner is about to say "oh...he was mentally okay". No, they would say "clearly we missed that one". Now...there are brief psychotic breaks. A jaded lover might stab someone to death or do something in the heat of a moment. And again...that would be a break. That person wouldn't be mentally ill...but you could argue that they lost control. When it comes to someone premeditating a massacre, though...that is not a break, that is an unstable mind. No words can convince me that behavior like that is on level with a keen mind. That's a definite sign that something has gone awry. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Figured. Thought he was bdon, actually, back when I actually took him seriously. Who was he? Glad I stopped reading his posts yesterday or few days ago though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/connecting-mental-illness-gun-violence-misses-point-experts-say-n821696?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma Wait. How would you think that was me? Similar views, if not almost the same, based on our past arguments. Dunno if EJ remembers. Oh yeah automatically has to be the same guy, lol. Jesus dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/966096527222562821 Guess NRA's "funds" are more important to the politicians than people's lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nWo_Kevin Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Just like I disagreed with Gen, I disagree with you too. Mainly because you seem to be saying its one way or the other. While I've been saying it can be both. Some people are just bad. But there are certainly others who aren't bad people, they just had a mental illness or were bullied in school, or like in the case of Chris Benoit, had so many brain injures that he probably didn't know what he was doing. Does it make it OK what he did, or when someone kills someone, of course not. But mental illness is definitely something that needs to be taken more seriously when it comes to preventing this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Just like I disagreed with Gen, I disagree with you too. Mainly because you seem to be saying its one way or the other. While I've been saying it can be both. Some people are just bad. But there are certainly others who aren't bad people, they just had a mental illness or were bullied in school, or like in the case of Chris Benoit, had so many brain injures that he probably didn't know what he was doing. Does it make it OK what he did, or when someone kills someone, of course not. But mental illness is definitely something that needs to be taken more seriously when it comes to preventing this kind of stuff. Usually I disagree with you but I have to agree here. It's not just one or the other. I do agree some people are just evil and not insane. I feel it has to do with your definition of "mental illness" I guess. Is anger a mental illness or an emotion for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Anger does not account for people going out and causing a massacre. Anger is a singular feeling in a moment. It comes and it goes. When you premeditate carrying a firearm to a public place and taking innocent lives, that is not a case of standard human emotion. These people plan these attacks for a long time in advance, they gather supplies, they get their ducks in a row...they are not mentally stable. They are broken people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Just like I disagreed with Gen, I disagree with you too. Mainly because you seem to be saying its one way or the other. While I've been saying it can be both. Some people are just bad. But there are certainly others who aren't bad people, they just had a mental illness or were bullied in school, or like in the case of Chris Benoit, had so many brain injures that he probably didn't know what he was doing. Does it make it OK what he did, or when someone kills someone, of course not. But mental illness is definitely something that needs to be taken more seriously when it comes to preventing this kind of stuff. Whoops, not my intention to say it was one or the other. But otherwise I agree with you, mostly. I just don't think that focusing on mental illness will make a significant difference, and I fear for people with mental illness as well, given how mental illness is seen by society. Sadly, politicians will blame mental illness for mass shooting, say we need to do something about it, and then sweep the issue under a rug when enough time passes. Rinse and repeat. Shows they don't really care about any of this. Mental illness isn't really what causes gun violence, and any sane or mentally sound person can shoot someone or go on a shooting spree. Mental illness is just a scapegoat. Just like I disagreed with Gen, I disagree with you too. Mainly because you seem to be saying its one way or the other. While I've been saying it can be both. Some people are just bad. But there are certainly others who aren't bad people, they just had a mental illness or were bullied in school, or like in the case of Chris Benoit, had so many brain injures that he probably didn't know what he was doing. Does it make it OK what he did, or when someone kills someone, of course not. But mental illness is definitely something that needs to be taken more seriously when it comes to preventing this kind of stuff. Usually I disagree with you but I have to agree here. It's not just one or the other. I do agree some people are just evil and not insane. I feel it has to do with your definition of "mental illness" I guess. Is anger a mental illness or an emotion for example? Anger is an emotion, but what causes anger could be a mental illness, like schizophrenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Good point to both of you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Who's gonna get blamed if we ever decide to do something about mental health, and it's working but we still see mass shooting? I still say we need to be better at vetting who gets guns and banning AR-15. I don't know if this is an anomaly among the left, but banning guns wouldn't really be fair even though other countries have seen success doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Who's gonna get blamed if we ever decide to do something about mental health, and it's working but we still see mass shooting? This statement is absurd for obvious reasons. Just because there is help available, doesn't mean people will get it. And again...it's only "blaming mental health" when specific people use it as an excuse to push an agenda. Otherwise, it's just acknowledging that murderers are sick people who need help (which they are). That doesn't mean that they can be helped...some people are too far gone, and others don't want help at all. It sounds like you're confusing "mental health" as a one-dimensional symptom that can always be curbed in one manner or another. That just isn't true... Funny thing about people who are mentally unwell...they often don't want to be helped. They think they are right in the way they are. If you have a guy who eats people, and he likes doing that...he isn't going to seek council...whether it exists or not. Think of Silence of the Lambs. There is not a chance in hell that anyone would consider Hannibal Lecter sane or mentally well. He was a sick dude. He was institutionalized. Now...he was always in control. He was a very smart dude. But that doesn't change that he was sick. He was not mentally well. No one in their right mind would say "Oh...he just decided that he likes eating people. He's perfectly sane, though"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 It's not absurd at all, none of your reason work. more importantly, it's a hypothetical situation and rhetorical question. In context, I'm saying despite all this talk about tackling mental health issues, it probably won't solve shooting or mass shooting like stricter gun control would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 No...it IS ridiculous, because you're suggesting that mass shootings should be entirely eliminated by the mere presence of mental health programs. That is absurd. How is that not absurd? Just because the programs could work and could help cull the numbers, doesn't at all suggest that we would ever see the shootings stop entirely... You're acting like shootings that happen after a boost in mental health programs would somehow prove that mental health was never the real issue. But the truth is, a bunch of crazy people would simply slip through the cracks by refusing to utilize those programs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 How did you even come to that conclusion??? holy shit, that's not even close to what I said. Did you even read the two posts completely? holy shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 How did you even come to that conclusion??? holy shit, that's not even close to what I said. Did you even read the two posts completely? holy shit You said "Who's gonna get blamed if we ever decide to do something about mental health, and it's working but we still see mass shooting?"...are you seriously not even following the logic of your own statement there? You're completely acting like improved mental health programs failing to stop EVERY LAST shooting on the planet would somehow prove that mental health was not an issue. It's not mutually inclusive. You don't just look for another thing to blame because we gave it our best shot...the problem has more sides than that...in fact, that's what makes the whole term "blame" stupid in this debate to begin with. That term makes it sound like it's simple to just try one thing or another, prove something not to be the cause...and then move on with the guessing game. You're missing the unpredictable human factor in all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 It's not absurd at all, none of your reasons work. more importantly, it's a hypothetical situation and rhetorical question. In context, I'm saying despite all this talk about tackling mental health issues, it probably won't solve shooting or mass shooting like stricter gun control would. OUR MESSAGES ARE ULTIMATELY THE SAME. Plus, I even agreed with Kevin. Point is focusing on mental illness won't stop mass shootings, especially when a lot of shooters aren't mentally ill. It'll reduce it, but there are, as you said, other factors in play as well. And as Kevin said, people can be evil without being mentally ill, and vice versa. Anyway, anyone see Dinesh D'Souza's tweets to the victims of Parkland school shooting? And not only him, but a lot of other right wings as well. These guys are so *censored*ed up, and they're great examples of why I dislike/hate the right and think of them as pieces of shit in general. How can these adults make fun of or try to invalidate what these victims who aren't even adults yet went through? jfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senex Beast Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Has info been released on the kid that shot himself in Ohio? Is there a suicide note or people know what had been going on with him? With happening at a school, is there a chance he was going to shoot other students but accidently shot himself or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Eastwood Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Has info been released on the kid that shot himself in Ohio? Is there a suicide note or people know what had been going on with him? With happening at a school, is there a chance he was going to shoot other students but accidently shot himself or something? They weren't sure at this point, most likely will never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 where did he shoot himself? Would probably give an idea if it was a suicide or if he's just a dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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