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Bret and Shawn was very, very personal. And Vince, whom Bret was very close to, chose Shawn over Bret, reneged on Bret's deal, and then doubled-crossed him live on TV. After all the years he gave to Vince, he felt betrayed and humiliated. That's not just business. I mean the dude friggin' knocked-out his boss! lol Punk didn't do that. He just kicked the EVPs' asses. That's not the same as knocking out Tony Khan.

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1 hour ago, PaperThinWalls said:

Bret and Shawn was very, very personal. And Vince, whom Bret was very close to, chose Shawn over Bret, reneged on Bret's deal, and then doubled-crossed him live on TV. After all the years he gave to Vince, he felt betrayed and humiliated. That's not just business. I mean the dude friggin' knocked-out his boss! lol Punk didn't do that. He just kicked the EVPs' asses. That's not the same as knocking out Tony Khan.

 

Bret was already going to WCW. He literally left for another company. There might have been a handshake agreement. But, it was business at the end of the day. It became personal because he got screwed over...but it didn't start that way. With Punk, the issues he had were personal ones from the start. They should have been handled personally, and not in a business setting. Point is...Bret and Shawn were able to grow as people over the years and acknowledge that a business decision was made, and it was bigger than both of them. Punk's problems are not business problems at the core...they are personal ones. If he felt like he wasn't being treated properly from a business standpoint, then he should have said he wanted out of his contract and left...not proceed to publicly belittle half a dozen people at a presser. From a business perspective, what good was ever going to come from talking that much shit about the company that you are currently employed by? (Even going as far as the cut off Tony Khan when he tried to interject).

Edited by Generations

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2 hours ago, PaperThinWalls said:

Bret and Shawn was very, very personal. And Vince, whom Bret was very close to, chose Shawn over Bret, reneged on Bret's deal, and then doubled-crossed him live on TV. After all the years he gave to Vince, he felt betrayed and humiliated. That's not just business. I mean the dude friggin' knocked-out his boss! lol Punk didn't do that. He just kicked the EVPs' asses. That's not the same as knocking out Tony Khan.

Bret should’ve dropped the title like he was asked. 

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On 10/22/2022 at 12:42 PM, Generations said:

Bret was already going to WCW. He literally left for another company. There might have been a handshake agreement. But, it was business at the end of the day. It became personal because he got screwed over...but it didn't start that way. With Punk, the issues he had were personal ones from the start. They should have been handled personally, and not in a business setting. Point is...Bret and Shawn were able to grow as people over the years and acknowledge that a business decision was made, and it was bigger than both of them. Punk's problems are not business problems at the core...they are personal ones. If he felt like he wasn't being treated properly from a business standpoint, then he should have said he wanted out of his contract and left...not proceed to publicly belittle half a dozen people at a presser. From a business perspective, what good was ever going to come from talking that much shit about the company that you are currently employed by? (Even going as far as the cut off Tony Khan when he tried to interject).

It wasn't a handshake agreement. It was a full-blown 20-year-contract that VInce tore up, which of course *censored*ed Bret over because WCW gave him a better deal in 1996. He took the hometown discount because he liked Vince and didn't want to leave. Fast forward to a year later, Vince is telling Bret that he can't afford him now and that he should give Eric a call again. What a swell guy. So yeah, I'm sure for Vince it's business. But for Bret, absolutely not. He took it personally. He was hurt. You seem to have bought into the corporate WWE narrative. I suggest you read Bret's book to understand how he felt.

It was a personal, emotional decision Bret made to return. He was tired of the emotional effect the screwjob had on him. It was weighing him down, so he decided to make peace with it. Same for Shawn. He and Bret were once friends and he didn't like how things had turned out, so he wanted to make amends and move on from it. Again, this is largely an emotional decision made by Bret. He wanted to free himself from it all because it took a negative toll on his well-being. 

As for Punk, I agree -- from a business perspective that was not good for AEW. But I ain't AEW and I personally don't have any stake in them as a company other than them being another option for wrestlers to gain employment. So I really don't care about their business.

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18 minutes ago, The Nerd said:

Bret should’ve dropped the title like he was asked. 

Oh boy, don't get me started cause I can go on and on about this. lol

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2 minutes ago, PaperThinWalls said:

As for Punk, I agree -- from a business perspective that was not good for AEW. But I ain't AEW and I personally don't have any stake in them as a company other than them being another option for wrestlers to gain employment. So I really don't care about their business.

 

But...the entire debate here is literally about why it would be corporate suicide for any company to do business with Punk.

None of this was ever about your personal attachment to a character. - We were literally saying that WWE would be stupid to sign him...

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This discussion has been about Punk’s value — at least that’s how I’ve viewed it as. And so for me, if I’m going to value him, I’m primarily valuing his work because that’s what I get to see. I’m not there backstage. I don’t have full context of what is going on back there. I’m not privy to that. So I’m not going to make some grand judgement on him as a person. If anything I’m empathetic towards him at this point because what I have seen is him being mistreated. Having dirt sheets falsely portray him as some villain trying to oust Colt Cabana from AEW. Being slandered on television. I know many in this community are cool with that, but I’m not, sorry.

So he finally blew up publicly after enduring that shit (and I’m sure plenty of other shit too that we haven’t even heard of). That’s very human to me. I can understand being so upset that you lash out, even if it was unprofessional. It’s a shame it happened in a professional sense, but it shouldn’t have gotten to that point anyway if Tony Khan was a better leader.

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Punk in WWE, something i mainly would like to see because of the sheer insanity of it.
Because even with your Hogans, Warriors etc...Punk returning to WWE seems like an absolute zero chance thing.

Especially since i always got the impression that Vince be the one willing to work with Punk while Triple H would rather eat glass than do that.
Now with him in charge, a Punk WWE return would be really something absolutely insane.

I dont really have a personal opinion on punk, but if he managed to piss off two companies and two locker rooms that are happier with him gone...that makes you question a few things.
There is no way that dozens of people are at fault when the common denominator is one specific person.
The truth is somewhere in the middle.

We will see.
It would kind of suck if you look at the year he had in AEW, it was almost a fairy tale in Wrestling.
Personally i would like if they could bury the hatchet and Punk remains with AEW, but if the lines have been drawn and nobody wants to move, there is not much to do.

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The WWE locker room was happier with him gone?

The AEW locker room isn't a monolith. There’s obviously different cliques there. I’m sure there’s a group of guys there who would love to see Punk gone and I’m sure there’s a group who appreciated his company and would like for him to return if he wants to.

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Not directly AEW related (or even drama for that matter)...but I didn't know where else to mention it:

Hijo del Vikingo has a US work visa now.

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Credit:pwinsider

WrestlingInc.com's Nick Hausman featured notes from "CM Punk's camp" regarding Punk's side of the issues stemming from the AEW All Out PPV backstage fight.  Among the highlights of the report:

*CM Punk's dog Larry was said to be injured "once Punk's locker room door was "kicked in" and accidentally hit Punk's dog, Larry, in the face. At a pre-scheduled veterinarian appointment a few days later, Punk was informed that two of Larry's teeth had been knocked loose and had to be removed."

*Punk "felt threatened" when The Elite entered his locker room "and reacted in a legal way under Illinois' Castle Doctrine laws, which allow for the use of force in defense of a person in their dwelling."

*Ace Steel's wife Lucy, who was in the room at the time of the fight, was never spoken to by the third-party investigation.

*Punk's side felt that what Punk stated in the scrum "wasn't a big deal" until everything escalated when The Elite came to his locker room.

*Punk's side also described "distrust" of Adam Page after Page went off script and made his own comments in the promo leading up to their AEW title bout and that there was a belief the match could turn into a legitimate fight.

It should be noted that Nick Hausman was the reporter CM Punk initially went after during the All Out media scrum, asking him if he was friends with Colt Cabana

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Which would be?

For real, do we have a definitive list of people who were in Punk’s room before the Elite showed up? Punk and Ace’s wife are the only two that I’ve seen that have been confirmed and Ace’s wife was allegedly not interviewed (which is odd). The people in the room would have a better visual as to what exactly occurred to Larry than the people who were behind the door.

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I'm just gonna say it...

Should Punk's dog have been there anyway? Is it considered normal to just have your dog at work with you? Dog even got loose and ran out into the arena at one point. - Whole thing is just not the most professional of situations, IMO. (I understand loving your dog and wanting it to be with you whenever possible. But, AEW doesn't exactly have the wildest schedule. You do your one taping and then you go home for the rest of the week). I don't think Punk needed to have Larry there at all. Which doesn't excuse anyone causing harm to the dog (but we all know that was an accident)...it's not like someone said "shut that dog up!" and kicked it across the floor.

Edited by Generations

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Why did that story not come out before? I dont trust the timing of that...highly suspicious.
Like that would kind of twist the story to Punks favor, if Punk for example only lashed out because his dog got hit...totally different look.
But this sounds more like a last attempt to get sympathy when everything is stacked against you.

Some bring their kids to shows and all, i dont think there is anything wrong with that, especially when you have a friend there that is in the locker room with the dog and all.

But yeah, the story sounds suspicious.

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I don't know...

When you bring your kid somewhere, you are creating memories with them. It obviously makes sense to bring your kid to your job as a professional wrestler. But, a dog isn't going to care less whether it sits at home or goes with you. A dog isn't going to look back fondly on the times it sat in your locker room "with the boys". - I understand having an attachment to the dog...but it doesn't seem "necessary" or logical to me. (And it's not like AJ Lee was there). If AJ was at home, then the dog wouldn't have been left alone or anything like that. Just...yeah, not sure why Punk needed his dog there to begin with. Of course, simply wanting the dog to be there with you is a valid answer...but I still question whether this made any sense or not. 

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I agree that bringing your pet to, well, almost anywhere is a stupid move. I groan at people with dogs in grocery stores, let alone arenas. But that is a little away from the point.

From every story that I've read so far, Punk took the first hit at one of the Bucks, who literally brought the AEW head of legal to witness their convo with Punk and Punk was in pissed-off-panic-mode from the start. When the fight started, Omega grabbed Larry and handed him to said head of legal so he wouldn't get hurt... my guess is if Larry took a hit, it could've been when Ace jumped on Kenny? Which is actually even more ironic if so as that means that any harm to Punk's dog would've been caused by his own buddy. But again, that's just my speculation based on everything that's been reported.

I dunno man, Punk the performer is very much still my all time favorite, but nothing about any of the stories so far have made him out to be in the right, especially when Punk's side dropped the claim of the door getting kicked down.

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I believe Omega The Dog Hero bit comes from the Elite side only, so that part of the incident is as non-definitive as the dog getting hit by the door. The kicking the door part was clarified because people online can’t understand the use of expressions and that not everything is literal.

Two things:

1) If I was in Punk’s situation, the last person I would want handling my dog is any of the people that I’m fighting with. Just imagine that. A person that you’re super heated with having the nerve to go near your dog. How would react to that? If I’m being realistic that would upset me a lot if I saw that. I wouldn’t want these people near my dog for any reason. So if that hero part is true, Punk’s reaction to that would be something I would wonder about. But as far as I’m aware Punk side has not confirmed that as happening, so it stops there.

2) If you’re someone who’s outside Punk’s locker room when the dog was allegedly was hit by the door, then you did not fully witness the event. You did not see it occur. So as far as I’m concerned, your testimony does not mean as much to me than someone who’s in the locker room who would have a visual of the event potentially. I know there’s a report from Meltzer with someone’s account saying the dog story is a “complete lie.” But guess how Meltzer describes this person? He describes them as a person “who was in the room seconds after the incident started.”Seconds after the incident started. So in other words this person wasn’t actually there when the incident allegedly occurred. So what do they know? They weren’t there in the locker room. They didn’t even have the potential to see what allegedly happened. And yet, people gobbled this testimony up treating it as definitive fact. I didn’t see one person question the value of their testimony. For me, the witnesses who hold the most weight in the dog door injury incident are the ones in the locker room considering that they were in the room when it could have occurred. Funnily, this same person Meltzer interviewed was asked why they think Lucy Guy (Ace’s wife), a person in the room, wasn’t interviewed, they responded by flippantly calling her “a non factor.” Alright. If a witness in the room is apparently considered “a non factor,” then this whole investigation is a joke to me.

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JDfromNY getting cooked by the women’s division >>>> 

 

the locker room is healing

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13 hours ago, EJ! said:

JDfromNY getting cooked by the women’s division >>>> 

 

the locker room is healing

He was already walking on thin ice since the last time he attacked another female Talent, how he didnt saw it coming is beyond me.
But the worst is that he plays victim going "cant people criticise anybody anymore" like dude was just trying to be sassy by disrespecing Talent and Fellow Workers werent having any of that.

If you dont want the smoke, shut up...simple as that.
If you go on a social platform where everyone can see your post, you have to deal with people reacting to what you say.
 

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I tried to look into this JDfromNY situation (never heard of him before). - I'm still not entirely sure who he is or why anyone should care about his opinion. But...it seems like he got attacked for saying Marina Shafir was a poor wrestler? I mean...he's not wrong (and Jade is trash too). But, he does sound like an ass who keeps digging himself a deeper hole. - It's crazy that there are still people who seem to be unaware of how the internet works. Especially when you have a platform and a following. You need to choose your words very carefully...and it's nobody's fault but your own if you find yourself being attacked for failing to do so.

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