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1 hour ago, Generations said:

Claudio is absolutely better off in AEW. What did he ever get in WWE? US title and a couple tag titles?

At the very least, AEW made him a world champion. He's held the RoH world title now. Not once...but, twice. I'm sure that meant more to him than anything else in his entire career. So...no, he wasn't better off in WWE. That's crazy. 

Make whatever sly comments you want about the RoH title not being a "real" world title...(I'm sure they're coming)...but, WWE never made him a world champion and probably never would have. AEW did that for him...and it was a full-circle career moment that paid homage to his past.

So, yeah...becoming a two time world champion is bigger than "The Bar". And it's laughable that I should even need to say that...because it really goes without saying.

Man, you so deep in that wrestling bubble of yours. lol

The Bar, I’d say, is the most over Claudio has ever been. Ask the average wrestling fan who is Claudio/Cesaro is, most I guarantee would bring up his WWE days and the Bar. You do realize how much bigger WWE’s audience is compared to AEW’s, right? Most fans probably have no clue what Claudio is doing right now, let alone know what the hell ROH is, which btw is a promotion I respect and acknowledge. Most of my favorite wrestlers got their start there. So no wise guy, I’m not going to say the ROH world title isn’t a “real title.” It’s a belt that has had tremendous champions in the past, but I can at least acknowledge that only diehard wrestling fans give a shit about it, which you can’t do because you’re stuck in that bubble.

(In fact, I respect that belt so much that I think it’s an absolute insult how much Tony Khan has made that belt irrelevant. It’s a joke that belt has been absorbed into that Continental Crown bullshit. I look forward to the day the ROH world title is separated from that bullshit.)

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The discussion isn't about who has a larger audience. Of course WWE wins that without trying. 

 

The discussion is about who used Claudio better.

Winning a world title is always better than, you know...not doing that.

 

In a discussion that is specifically about being booked "better"...Claudio was factually booked better in AEW, where he won a world title twice. - I don't care if The Bar was super over in WWE just because they have a massive audience. (Obviously AEW doesn't have that kind of reach). But that's irrelevant. The size of WWE's audience and distance of their reach is not the same thing as how well they do or do not book their performers. (If you took that route, literally everyone in WWE would have better exposure than the people on AEW...so you could argue that Akira Tozawa is booked better than AEW's world champion). It's a stupid argument, and it isn't how things work. - A world champion is factually booked stronger than a midcard or tag champion.

You really can't say that Tony Khan booked Claudio poorly. You can say that AEW isn't viewed by as many people as WWE  (and that limits the overness of their entire roster)...but, you could say the same thing about NJPW or anywhere else. It's pointless. AEW is not WWE. We all know that. It isn't news. 

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ROH isn’t AEW. The dude is booked mainly as a lackey in AEW and yeah, for a period he held a smaller promotion’s world title. You’re seriously arguing an indie promotion (that isn’t even on a major streaming platform or TV) — you’re arguing that having that is a bigger deal than WWE’s friggin’ tag titles? Wtf???

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RoH is literally not an indy company. It's owned by Tony Khan...a billionaire. 

Furthermore, RoH is directly affiliated and tied to AEW, and you know that just as well as anyone. It's basically just another brand that happens to be on a separate platform. RoH people and AEW people are constantly appearing on both shows. Claudio's RoH title reign was observed on AEW. Again...you know this.

And yes. The RoH world title is a bigger deal than the  WWE tag titles. The TNA world title is bigger than the WWE tag titles. The GCW title is a bigger deal than the WWE tag titles. ANY world title is a bigger deal than the WWE tag titles. The WWE tag titles have become WWE's weakest titles by far. Those belts get the musical chair treatment more than any other.

Let's not pretend that they're well protected or presented as a big deal in any capacity. Most of the time they're held by random people thrown together with nothing better to do...they've been held by Judgement Day and barely defended for I don't even know how long...and nobody has even cared or noticed. They don't mean much at all. They aren't the classic tag titles from the 80's or 90's. They don't even have the same lineage. They're just the Raw/SD tag titles...and nobody cares about them at all. The RoH world title has had several great defenses in the past year alone...and a hell of a legacy beyond that.

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1 hour ago, Generations said:

And yes. The RoH world title is a bigger deal than the  WWE tag titles. The TNA world title is bigger than the WWE tag titles. The GCW title is a bigger deal than the WWE tag titles.

^ Exhibit A, folks. Exhibit A. This is what happens when you’re stuck in the wrestling bubble, you say ridiculous things like this. His logic says XPW, Juggalo Championship Wrestling, your local rinky-dink promotion, your cousin’s trampoline wrestling league have titles more important than WWE’s tag championships simply because they have the word “World” on them.

1 hour ago, Generations said:

RoH is literally not an indy company. It's owned by Tony Khan...a billionaire. 

Son of a billionaire*

And so what a wealthy person owns the promotion? Sinclair owned ROH and it was still an indie promotion. What’s ROH’s budget? Tell me what major platform airs the show? How big are the crowds when they don’t piggyback off AEW’s crowds? I can’t believe you’re trying to spin this one, man…

1 hour ago, Generations said:

Furthermore, RoH is directly affiliated and tied to AEW, and you know that just as well as anyone. It's basically just another brand that happens to be on a separate platform.

Yeah, a small developmental brand that no one watches.

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

RoH people and AEW people are constantly appearing on both shows. Claudio's RoH title reign was observed on AEW.

Again, so what? That doesn’t make the title more important. No one gave a shit. Most everyone complained that ROH was taking up too much time on AEW and didn’t want to see Claudio do his ROH business on AEW TV. Doesn’t this go against your argument? Ppl generally care less about Claudio in AEW than they did when he was in WWE. Thats the whole point. People aren’t clamoring for Claudio like they were in WWE at his height of popularity. He’s not more popular now, hence his value has gone down. He’s a dude in a group who does group things and was champion for a brand that people wanted to see less of. That’s his AEW career so far.

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1 hour ago, PaperThinWalls said:

^ Exhibit A, folks. Exhibit A. This is what happens when you’re stuck in the wrestling bubble, you say ridiculous things like this. His logic says XPW, Juggalo Championship Wrestling, your local rinky-dink promotion, your cousin’s trampoline wrestling league have titles more important than WWE’s tag championships simply because they have the word “World” on them.

You're really not slick.

I don't know why you insist on saying things for shock value that you know are bullshit.

No...XPW, Juggalo wrestling and whatever else you just made up to prove a point are obviously not on the same level as other MAJOR world titles. (Notable companies that are proven commodities and have existed for decades). - So, get down off your apple box and put the microphone down, and drop the "you heard it here, folks!" snake oil pitch.  (It's pathetic that you constantly resort to these kinds of statements that are such an obvious reach). 

 

Also, it's bizarre to claim that I'm in some "wrestling bubble" as if that's a bad thing. "Oh...this guy watches all kinds of wrestling, not just WWE. He's in a bubble." - I don't think you know what the term "bubble" actually means in this instance. - (If anything, you're preaching from a WWE bubble).

I've heard you time and time again discredit amazing performers because you aren't familiar with them. You never show any interest in learning or growing...you just talk shit. You've been completely oblivious to top stars from Japan and Mexico just because they're under your radar. You call everything "indy" or small time. - It's a pattern you should change.

 

Anyway...I'm done with this whole stupid conversation.

AEW is too good right now to be bogged down by your predictable clowning. I've got a great triple threat, Sting's retirement, a solid women's roster, and some top tier debuts to look forward to. AND I get to enjoy WWE too. So, it doesn't matter to me if you think AEW is a failure just because it's not as "big time" as WWE. - You should try to enjoy more things. (And don't say that you do try...because you've literally made a pattern out of saying "it's not my job to invest in things that I don't know about".)

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9 hours ago, Generations said:

No...XPW, Juggalo wrestling and whatever else you just made up to prove a point are obviously not on the same level as other MAJOR world titles. (Notable companies that are proven commodities and have existed for decades). - So, get down off your apple box and put the microphone down, and drop the "you heard it here, folks!" snake oil pitch.  (It's pathetic that you constantly resort to these kinds of statements that are such an obvious reach). 

You literally named GCW. How is that promotion all that different from any other indie promotion like an XPW or JCW? No wait. I get it. You get to choose which title is a major, recognized world title, right? 

 

9 hours ago, Generations said:

Also, it's bizarre to claim that I'm in some "wrestling bubble" as if that's a bad thing. "Oh...this guy watches all kinds of wrestling, not just WWE. He's in a bubble." - I don't think you know what the term "bubble" actually means in this instance. - (If anything, you're preaching from a WWE bubble).

Oh it’s a bad thing cause it tends to make people say ridiculous things like you or book awful shows like Tony Khan. They lose sight of what truly matters.

 

9 hours ago, Generations said:

I've heard you time and time again discredit amazing performers because you aren't familiar with them. You never show any interest in learning or growing...you just talk shit.

It’s all subjective man. What you consider amazing might be different from I what I consider amazing and vice versa. One difference, though: the stuff I tend to like usually expands business whereas the stuff you tend to like constricts business. For example, you think this CMLL invasion angle is putting asses into seats? I think it’s a big waste of time — an angle not worth pursuing because it’s creatively bankrupt and won’t make AEW more money. You on the other hand probably think this is cool, right? Because it’s a bunch of CMLL stars facing off against the BCC and others. Matchups galore!!

See, that doesn’t make sense to me in terms of money since I’d wager many viewers barely know these guys. But put aside business, creatively when these type of matches are pursued, the bare minimum is done to get people invested and care for these non-AEW guys and that’s what’s really irksome. I understand people of your ilk don’t think story and creative should probably be the highest priority but I think history continues to show why that works better for business and fan investment. That’s why AEW is where it is rn: way behind WWE and becoming increasingly irrelevant. Theyre booking shows catering to a small niche that is seemingly getting smaller.

9 hours ago, Generations said:

You should try to enjoy more things. (And don't say that you do try...because you've literally made a pattern out of saying "it's not my job to invest in things that I don't know about".)

This is what you don’t understand because you’re so stuck in your bubble. There’s only so much wrestling one can watch when they have a whole bunch of other shit they’re interested in. Usually when I refer to other promotions it’s usually in the context of watching AEW where they do a shit job at getting people invested in these random wrestlers from other promotions. Not only that, I also get peeved that these people take time away from talent who are actually on AEW’s (massive) roster. So yeah, that’s usually when you see complaints like that. I got nothing against these promotions per se (well, except the quality of some of the wrestling), it’s just I only have so much time and energy to devote to wrestling and I think many others are in that same camp as me.

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10 hours ago, glennsoe said:

I'd love to see that Sasha will make a difference in aew,but as always it's up to the default booker of the year and we all know how he books...

That is true. The booking won’t help Mercedes, so that for sure will complicate judging her “overness” and popularity.

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Hahaha. You’re being comical. Wasn’t it just a few months ago you accused me of hating all wrestling including WWE and now you’re acting like I’m some WWE fanboy? I talk shit about all kinds of wrestling including WWE as you very much know. I also talk highly about the wrestling I like, too. My enthusiasm and criticism is not bound to any period, style, or promotion. You’re seething that I’m not as favorable to the things you like and you’re lashing out at me like you typically do.

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I just think there's more talented women to focus on in AEW. Other than Toni (and kinda Ember Moon?) AEW signs women and thats about it.  And i kinda agree with both of you about alot of ex WWE talent. The problem is alot of guys are doing better but not being made into stars or anything. Swerve should be a top star by now but hes tangled with Page forever it seems. Cole keeps getting hurt but has pretty high stock. FTR is a weird one for me, they won a ton but they seem to get hot than just disappear before all the Punk drama. 

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23 minutes ago, PaperThinWalls said:

Hahaha. You’re being comical. Wasn’t it just a few months ago you accused me of hating all wrestling including WWE and now you’re acting like I’m some WWE fanboy? I talk shit about all kinds of wrestling including WWE as you very much know. I also talk highly about the wrestling I like, too. My enthusiasm and criticism is not bound to any period, style, or promotion. You’re seething that I’m not as favorable to the things you like and you’re lashing out at me like you typically do.

You've literally said "I don't know who that is, and I have no reason to care about them" in regards to NJPW legends. 

Comical my ass.

Go outside.

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8 minutes ago, Lunchbox said:

I just think there's more talented women to focus on in AEW. Other than Toni (and kinda Ember Moon?) AEW signs women and thats about it.  And i kinda agree with both of you about alot of ex WWE talent. The problem is alot of guys are doing better but not being made into stars or anything. Swerve should be a top star by now but hes tangled with Page forever it seems. Cole keeps getting hurt but has pretty high stock. FTR is a weird one for me, they won a ton but they seem to get hot than just disappear before all the Punk drama. 

FTR is a weird one because they are guys who are over and they’ve had tremendous matches and some memorable promos but the booking and their overall creative direction has a lot to be desire. So yeah, it’s a mix bag for them.

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5 minutes ago, Generations said:

You've literally said "I don't know who that is, and I have no reason to care about them" in regards to NJPW legends. 

Comical my ass.

Go outside.

Bro, you said you were done with this discussion and now you’re back reigniting shit.

Which NJPW legends are you referring to? Show me what you’re talking about.

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I'm not about to go through every post you've ever made and find specific references...but, you've done it at least a few times. (It wasn't an isolated occurrence). - It has happened enough times that it stuck in my mind as a recurring theme.

You've said shit about Suzuki, for sure. You've said shit about Metalik...I remember that one. (You said he was a "complete nobody"). Meanwhile,  you continue to insist that someone like Austin Theory is "the next big thing". - It would be funny if it wasn't completely embarrassing each and every time you do it.

 

You literally just took a jab at the CMLL guys. It was like two or three posts ago.

When AEW books almost anyone from outside the US, you say "Who is this guy? I don't care about this." - If we were discussing WCW back in the day, you'd probably be talking shit about guys like Ultimo Dragon and Psicosis. This is the vibe you promote....and I look forward to the day when you prove me wrong. But, it hasn't happened yet. - I just wish you didn't constantly come in here and say "Who is this guy?" "Who is that guy?" "This guy won't put asses in seats." "Nobody cares"...etc. It's *censored*ing exhausting. You're a moderator and you're the most negative dude on the entire forum. Christ.

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1 hour ago, Generations said:

I'm not about to go through every post you've ever made and find specific references...but, you've done it at least a few times. (It wasn't an isolated occurrence). - It has happened enough times that it stuck in my mind as a recurring theme.

No please do. I want direct quotes.

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

You've said shit about Suzuki, for sure.

I’ve probably said something to the effect that the guy is shot now, which he objectively is. In the past, when I watched the big NJPW shows like maybe 8 years ago, he was a guy I liked. Now? When he randomly appears on AEW, he seems much older and I can’t go like he used to, which is expected.

1 hour ago, Generations said:

You've said shit about Metalik...I remember that one. (You said he was a "complete nobody").

So I see you’ve moved to a different subject, but I’ll take the bait because I don’t like people putting words in my mouth.

Let’s see Metalik, that’s easy since it was recent. Here’s what I said: 

Gee. Look at that. Took my words out of context. As you can clearly see ^ I said he’s a nobody in the states, which for those who watched his WWE run would understand. Further down you’ll see me expounding upon my initial statement. 

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

Meanwhile,  you continue to insist that someone like Austin Theory is "the next big thing".

Not sure if I ever used that terminology but yeah, I view his work very positively. So what?

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

You literally just took a jab at the CMLL guys. It was like two or three posts ago.

Yeah, the main sentiment was towards the booking and creative. It’s not exactly a hot angle that loads of people are invested in or talking about.

1 hour ago, Generations said:

If we were discussing WCW back in the day, you'd probably be talking shit about guys like Ultimo Dragon

I actually liked Ultimo Dragon as a kid.

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

I just wish you didn't constantly come in here and say "Who is this guy?" "Who is that guy?" "This guy won't put asses in seats." "Nobody cares"...etc.

I don’t like random guys that I don’t know or have little investment in periodically appearing on shows with little story to do a cold match and I much rather AEW use that time for their own wrestlers.

 

1 hour ago, Generations said:

You're a moderator and you're the most negative dude on the entire forum. Christ.

No, that’s currently you. I’ve been pretty positive about WWE lately, which I think upsets you.

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You know, people talk a lot of shit about Tony Khan...but, I honestly think AEW is better in the NFL off-season.

The past few weeks have been really good. - If Tony's input was part of the problem, I think you'd see the opposite; we could assume that the shows where he's not present would be booked better...but, that isn't the case. - I think there's strong evidence that the shows are better when he's well-rested, and not stretched so thin doing other things.

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Maaaaan...'New Beginning in Osaka' was soooo damn amazing, and now I'm pumped for Okada and Ospreay in AEW full time. Those guys need some rest (definitely Will more than Okada, lol)...but, what a 24 hours for pro wrestling.

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On 2/8/2024 at 7:28 PM, Generations said:

The discussion isn't about who has a larger audience. Of course WWE wins that without trying. 

 

The discussion is about who used Claudio better.

Winning a world title is always better than, you know...not doing that.

 

In a discussion that is specifically about being booked "better"...Claudio was factually booked better in AEW, where he won a world title twice. - I don't care if The Bar was super over in WWE just because they have a massive audience. (Obviously AEW doesn't have that kind of reach). But that's irrelevant. The size of WWE's audience and distance of their reach is not the same thing as how well they do or do not book their performers. (If you took that route, literally everyone in WWE would have better exposure than the people on AEW...so you could argue that Akira Tozawa is booked better than AEW's world champion). It's a stupid argument, and it isn't how things work. - A world champion is factually booked stronger than a midcard or tag champion.

You really can't say that Tony Khan booked Claudio poorly. You can say that AEW isn't viewed by as many people as WWE  (and that limits the overness of their entire roster)...but, you could say the same thing about NJPW or anywhere else. It's pointless. AEW is not WWE. We all know that. It isn't news. 

Yeah but the R o h world title is basically like w w e c w both worlds titles still isn't considered a good roh world title is basically  aew ecw world title 

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So, I see people questioning why Okada would need to sign with AEW, if NJPW and AEW already have a working relationship...and I think the obvious answer is that you wouldn't make someone your world champion if they were under contract elsewhere.

With people like Okada and Ospreay signing with AEW...I think it signals that they will be AEW world champions soon enough, and they will likely still appear on NJPW shows as well...but, they aren't going to be winning any championships there. That's the major change. - It might not seem like a big one...but, it kinda is. 

I think we could see Okada as world champion and maybe Ospreay as TNT champion by the end of the year.

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You don't think Ospreay is going to win the World title in the main event of All in then? That's what most people seem to have been fantasy booking ever since it was revealed that he would be joining AEW.

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