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Jeb ★

WWE Show Discussion

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18 hours ago, Counting Lights said:

Eh, even Rhea's big matches (vs Charlotte and Asuka for example) she never really brought the goods. Like I mentioned earlier, her moveset is stupidly shallow and that hurts her big time. I actually dig her look/character, but the appeal ends for me when the bell rings. 

Liv I think works the underdog style well, and when she was doing Riott Squad adapted to that gimmick by throwing in more character driven performances. She's not a Becky or an Asuka, but she's fun and like I mentioned, someone who if she's involved in a bigger program I will actually tune in for even when I don't watch WWE anymore.

I don’t know what’s so shallow about her moveset? What, she doesn’t do enough moves for you or something? She doesn’t do any fancy, flashy moves? If that’s what you’re talking about, then oh yeah — we’re worlds apart here. I’m not a moves guy. I’m about the story and the work. And the moves she does supports the stories she tells in the ring. This reminds me when you pooh-poohed the Bryan/Zayn match at WM a few months ago. You dismissed that match because Sami “didn’t do anything.” And what you meant, is that he basically didn’t do the moves you wanted him to do. So to me, this is just another rehashing of that and I’m not sure if we’re going to find much agreement here.

You’re right, Liv works the underdog style but it’s the WWE underdog style which is incredibly overdone, so that certainly puts her at disadvantage for me. But it’s also how she was trained. I don’t feel her emotions. I don’t believe her selling. It has a programmed feel to me. It’s the whole she’s “playing a role instead of being in the role” thing. Now, she’s certainly not the worst but she ain’t exceptional either. Very middle-of-the-road like I said.

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Oh and speaking of Sami, the guy totally hit it out-of-the-park last night with Lesnar and Heyman. I think he might be my favorite heel in wrestling right now. The guy is doing exceptional weasel heel work. And Lesnar again continues to prove that he can talk decently on the mic. So great SD opener, the rest of the show on the other hand, barely engaged me. What I saw of the main event was pretty good but the premise of the match really turned me off.

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3 hours ago, PaperThinWalls said:

I don’t know what’s so shallow about her moveset? What, she doesn’t do enough moves for you or something? She doesn’t do any fancy, flashy moves? If that’s what you’re talking about, then oh yeah — we’re worlds apart here. I’m not a moves guy. I’m about the story and the work. And the moves she does supports the stories she tells in the ring. This reminds me when you pooh-poohed the Bryan/Zayn match at WM a few months ago. You dismissed that match because Sami “didn’t do anything.” And what you meant, is that he basically didn’t do the moves you wanted him to do. So to me, this is just another rehashing of that and I’m not sure if we’re going to find much agreement here.

You’re right, Liv works the underdog style but it’s the WWE underdog style which is incredibly overdone, so that certainly puts her at disadvantage for me. But it’s also how she was trained. I don’t feel her emotions. I don’t believe her selling. It has a programmed feel to me. It’s the whole she’s “playing a role instead of being in the role” thing. Now, she’s certainly not the worst but she ain’t exceptional either. Very middle-of-the-road like I said.

Do they? When I see Rhea I'm thinking she'll work either a fun aggressive style or throw in some cool powerhouse offense. But most of her set is.... standard as it gets. The one move she does I can think of that fits either of those is the Electric Chair Apron Facebuster. That's pretty cool. Nothing else pops, nothing fits the character overly well. Even her Riptide finish feels like it hits super weak most of the time. It's the same reason I'm not keen on someone like Finn Balor, because I just don't enjoy his moveset. And look, I'm not saying I want every to have some crazy indie-innovator moveset. I mean, WALTER's fantastic, and his moveset is about as basic as it gets, but he's able to make it his own. Rhea does not.

And iirc, Sami literally didn't get offense that match until he caught Bryan with a boot to win. It was a squash with a reverse finish. The story didn't work for me. At all. And I'm all for a good story to be told in a match. One of my all time favorite matches is the first NXT match between Sami and Owens, specifically due to how well they told the story of Sami getting exterminated. I can appreciate the little details wrestlers throw into matches, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna enjoy every story told just because it's there.

But hey, to each their own. 

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We're totally seeing different things, man. Sure, she's got the traditonal powerhouse stuff like the big boot, strong clothesline, and delayed vertical suplex (as she she should). But then there's inventive stuff like the electric chair facebuster and that wonderful inverted standing cloverleaf move that she does (I don't see many people doing that). She also has the lighter, speedy stuff like her dropkicks, knee strikes, and apron cannonball to add a different gear to her set of moves. All these moves I find very fitting for her size, look, & demeanor and they're typically executed in an aggressive, overpowering, and natural way, too. The Riptide doesn't look weak to me, sorry. Typically when it's done, it looks like she manhandles her opponent and crushes them.

A squash match does not last almost 10 mins  -- come on. lol It was a chickenshit heel match where the heel stalls, cowers, and dodges his opponent while he has his cronies help him out. This gets under the babyface's skin but eventually he gets a hold of him to unleash some due punishment. Great, classic wrestling story but what made this match in particular exceptional was the sound of the action and Sami's remarkably done selling and heel work which really took advantage of the empty, audience-less set. And I'm not saying you're against stories btw. I'm saying, based on these exchanges and from your posts about wrestling in general, you seem to hold moves and workrate at a higher regard than I do. I mean, I'll gladly take less moves if it means the wrestler puts more care in their facial expressions, body language, and how they structure a match. As long as it's done in a nuance, sensible way -- we are gold.

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perfectly placed sign

 

Brock is out in overalls and still looks very terrifying 

Edited by EJ!

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What's with the awkward silences between commentary rn? Lol

Vince really just joked about firing people before holidays. What the actual *Censored*?

Edited by Fight Me.

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That whole Miz/Maryse shit was a waste of *censored*ing time. Called that shit after she slapped Miz last week. Preeeedictable! Entire Raw was garbage.

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Just wanna state that Paul Heyman is still currently the best talent in wrestling at this time. His verbal skills. His facial expressions and body language. His chemistry with practically all the talent he interacts with. The guy is gold and I look forward to him every SD.

Also, stop making Toni Storm a crybaby.

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Lmao it's like every now and then MVP decides to acknowledge Shelton and Cedric's existence in their stable

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