Official WrestleMania 36 Discussion Thread

[AONO.]

6 minutes ago, Crazy. said:

Do I need to act like a sheep and pretend that he's amazing when I quite clearly believe he isn't?

lmao dude.

we who criticise his matches and say it's due to booking are sheep. gotcha.

 

[Crazy.]

6 minutes ago, Creepia said:

Express your opinions all you want. Just like I can say you should give up because it's a frivolous argument that goes nowhere all I want. Crazy world right? You're about 3 posts away from calling people snowflakes or something.

So let's make not posting about Lesnar an official rule then since it's a frivolous argument that goes nowhere. I only stated that they should tweak his character a bit because the booking as well as match quality MIGHT improve. I didn't just drop in to say "hurr durr Lesnar sux" without giving any reasoning or context to support my statement. 

[Crazy.]

5 minutes ago, AONO. said:

lmao dude.

we who criticise his matches and say it's due to booking are sheep. gotcha.

 

Didn't mean that. Only meant that I won't "give up" criticizing Lesnar just because I might be in the minority. You're entitled to believe whatever you want.

[LEGION]

Yeah. Lesnar's matches got worse, not better. The few, great, actual wrestling matches, usually with a year between them, don't make his performance any better

[PaperThinWalls]

23 minutes ago, Crazy. said:

So let's make not posting about Lesnar an official rule then since it's a frivolous argument that goes nowhere. I only stated that they should tweak his character a bit because the booking as well as match quality MIGHT improve. I didn't just drop in to say "hurr durr Lesnar sux" without giving any reasoning or context to support my statement. 

No, you're actually doing something worse: you're making shit up to support your reasoning.

[Crazy.]

Honestly believe that people are so starved of seeing Lesnar not completely suck that anytime he does something remotely decent, it's considered a "great performance" from him. He just needs to do the bare minimum in order to earn praise because the majority of his matches are bottom of the barrel 

[Crazy.]

3 minutes ago, PaperThinWalls said:

No, you're actually doing something worse: you're making shit up to support your reasoning.

Like what? I literally said that they should stop booking him like a superhuman because the manner in which he loses doesn't warrant it. How's that "making shit up"? Does any reasoning that you don't agree with constitute as "made up shit"?

[The Nerd]

17 minutes ago, Crazy. said:

Honestly believe that people are so starved of seeing Lesnar not completely suck that anytime he does something remotely decent, it's considered a "great performance" from him. He just needs to do the bare minimum in order to earn praise because the majority of his matches are bottom of the barrel 

Nope. Not the case at all. But go awf.

[Counting Lights]

So just finished night two.

Liv vs Nattie was fine.

Charlotte vs Rhea was really good but LMAO they really have Charlotte win? That's beyond awful.

Black vs Lashley was actually pretty good.

Otis vs Dolph went too long, average stuff.

Edge vs Orton was pretty brutal. I dug it.

Profits vs Theory and Garza was fun but I had no investment.

Womens 5 Way was ok. Some good moments, but I didn't care about most of the participants.

Funhouse match was pretty awful. Like, if the Boneyard match was a cinematic done right, then this was a cinematic done very poorly.

Drew vs Brock was a bad match. I mean, it was a Brock match, so I wasn't surprised at it being bad. BUT, Drew winning was awesome and I'll be damned if I wasn't tearing up just a little bit when he looked into that camera saying "Thank You". It sucks he didn't get his moment in front of a huge audience, but Drew deserved this more than anyone.

[PaperThinWalls]

@Crazy.

Well, for starters, a lot of this is untrue and made up:

1 hour ago, Crazy. said:

Is that the same RR performance where he did *Censored* all for half the match except dominate... something he does every match?

Listen... the point is that it's high time Lesnar stops being booked the way he is, where he needs to put in next to no effort to dispose off his opponent(s). That aura was there when he ended the streak, then he lost to 'Taker the very next year, then he lost to Goldberg (in less than 2 minutes), then Reigns then Rollins, then McIntyre (within 2 minutes). That's not a large number of matches he's lost, but in the context of the invincible force he's made out to be, it's telling that he's lost half his matches within 5 minutes or so. His "performances" are nothing but the same 2-3 moves every single match with his "booking" being used as an excuse, but the paradox is that his losses and the manner in which he loses doesn't justify that kind of booking either.

It'll just be easier for everyone if he's booked like a normal *censored*ing wrestler and not the invincible (with the not-so-invincible record) force of nature he is.

 

[EJ!]

everybody shutup 

 

[Crazy.]

12 minutes ago, PaperThinWalls said:

@Crazy.

Well, for starters, a lot of this is untrue and made up:

 

Again, point out what is made up in that.

[Senex Beast]

I liked Edge vs Orton and both did great but it was definitely too long! My top 4 matches were

Boneyard

KO vs Seth Rollins

Ladder

Edge vs Orton

[Generations]

I really hope they do a whole network special on Mania 36, and unveil what it was supposed to be. Concept art for the arena, actual set-pieces that didn't get used, entrance concepts, matches that got cut.

I feel like it would be great closure to show all of that. 

Unless they're literally gonna save it all and give Tampa Mania 38. In which case...again, I wish they pulled the pirate theme for this year's show. Because no one wants two pirate themed Manias.

[The Nerd]

I’m not even mad at Charlotte winning now that I think about it. Adds even more prestige to the NXT division and I get it. NXT is being looked as a third or solo brand we need all stars and experience on deck. 

[AONO.]

34 minutes ago, A.O.L. said:

I’m not even mad at Charlotte winning now that I think about it. Adds even more prestige to the NXT division and I get it. NXT is being looked as a third or solo brand we need all stars and experience on deck. 

ah yes, that's why 2 of the main stars of the brand that were being built up since November lost. awesome.

Can't wait to see who will feud with this new character on NXT called Charlotte. 

It also doesn't add any "prestige" to the tile. Prestige was being built when Sasha and Bayley did their thing (and the whole 4HW era), when Asuka had her unbeatable run that passed Golbergs, when Shayna also dominated the whole division for the longest time when Rhea Ripley ended that domination... It would gain even more "prestige" if that NXT champion, has beaten the supposed queen, the best female wrestler of all third brands, who has beaten 29 other women in RR match only to fail at beating the NXT champion. 

By that logic you would have random experienced "stars" just rummage through NXT. Balor was a good exception, and while beating people, he didn't just halt somebodys huge momentum. 

[PaperThinWalls]

2 hours ago, Crazy. said:

Again, point out what is made up in that.

-Even if you're not into the psychology behind most of Lesnar's matches, there was more to his RR performance than how you convey it as. The match story, the way it was structured, his selling, his facials, his body language, the time he spent in the match -- he worked the hell out of that match and helped Drew look like a star. Your criteria for what is acceptable effort is one dimensional and simplistic. It ain't all about the amount of moves a wrestler does or doesn't do. Working a match is far more than that.

-There are many matches of his where it's not him disposing his opponent (s) with "next to no effort."  Depending on the opponent and the surrounding circumstances, Lesnar has shown to struggle.

-He didn't lose to Drew "within 2 minutes" (it was 4:35 minutes)

-Your line about how he's "lost half of his matches within 5 minutes or so" is such weird framing that you would make a politician proud. On my count, putting aside RRs, he's lost 9 times since WM30. 4 of those times his matches were below 6 minutes. But 5 of those times his matches were +14 mins. So give me a break with you framing him as this guy who gives minimum effort whenever someone beats him and a guy who is easily beatable when he actually loses. That's also not accounting for how in most those losses he was seriously protected.

[PaperThinWalls]

49 minutes ago, A.O.L. said:

I’m not even mad at Charlotte winning now that I think about it. Adds even more prestige to the NXT division and I get it. NXT is being looked as a third or solo brand we need all stars and experience on deck. 

I would much rather have a rising NXT star be put over for once in a big way than whatever prestige people hope Charlotte will bring to the NXT brand or women's division.

[Crazy.]

20 minutes ago, PaperThinWalls said:

-Even if you're not into the psychology behind most of Lesnar's matches, there was more to his RR performance than how you convey it as. The match story, the way it was structured, his selling, his facials, his body language, the time he spent in the match -- he worked the hell out of that match and helped Drew look like a star. Your criteria for what is acceptable effort is one dimensional and simplistic. It ain't all about the amount of moves a wrestler does or doesn't do. Working a match is far more than that.

-There are many matches of his where it's not him disposing his opponent (s) with "next to no effort."  Depending on the opponent and the surrounding circumstances, Lesnar has shown to struggle.

-He didn't lose to Drew "within 2 minutes" (it was 4:35 minutes)

-Your line about how he's "lost half of his matches within 5 minutes or so" is such weird framing that you would make a politician proud. On my count, putting aside RRs, he's lost 9 times since WM30. 4 of those times his matches were below 6 minutes. But 5 of those times his matches were +14 mins. So give me a break with you framing him as this guy who gives minimum effort whenever someone beats him and a guy who is easily beatable when he actually loses. That's also not accounting for how most those losses he was seriously protected.

It was the same old, tired formula that his matches have been following since August '14 when he beat Cena, just on a larger scale because it was in the Royal Rumble match and he entered first. Most of the people saw it coming the moment his entry was announced at #1 because his match formula had become super predictable. He didn't look remotely tired one bit even after eliminating every single person pre-Ricochet and his only effective selling was after he got eliminated. Not completely sucking at the very basics is the very least I expect from any wrestler and nothing to brag about.

I was only counting the matches where he was directly pinned/submitted and got 5 by that criteria. I never implied that he is easily beatable when he loses. just that it happens quickly. You'd think that a guy they make out to be invincible wouldn't lose so quickly, within 5 minutes indeed, multiple times.

[Jeb ★]

*language*

[glennsoe]

Regarding the Riplay/Flair match,which was my favorite match of both nights:

Sometimes you elevate the loser in a match and not just the winner,here both Riplay and the nxt title got elevated.

Kudos to the one who laid out the match backstage - would've been better with 80 000 peeps there though..

[JokerVenom]

Man i really enjoyed last night. I thought it was a stronger night than Saturday.

I enjoyed Rhea vs Charlotte. I don't have much of a problem with Charlotte winning. I'm intrigued with her being on NXT now. Rhea v Charlotte isn't done either and the story is going to be built further from Rhea losing. I was also more disappointed with Becky winning than Charlotte winning. I felt Shayna needed that win considering the build up and i honestly don't know where Becky goes from here.

Man i really digged Edge vs Orton. Maybe it went on a tad too long but i thought it was done well with how they used the whole performance centre, it was a match that could have taken place on a normal PPV and not looked out of place. The ending was so well done with Edge tearing up before hitting Orton with the chair.

I loved the Bianca spot for the Street Profits.

The ending to Black/Lashley was jokes. Didn't think much of the SD Women's Title match but excited to see a potential face Sasha vs heel Bayley.

I LOVED Cena vs The Fiend. I didn't know what to expect but i enjoyed it so much. I thought it was hilarious in parts. For me this was the best part/match from Mania 36. Need to watch it again.

Happy Drew won. The match was okay, you knew it was going to be short. I can appreciate how good Lesnar is in terms of making others look like stars and his overall selling however i'm just sick of him as champion. Knowing WWE he'll probs get it back in 4-5 months time.

 

Mania wasn't it's usual self but there were Mania moments across the weekend for sure and i thought they did a great job considering the current climate. Many people across the world would have needed this in these bleak times and they provided with a good 6 hours worth of entertainment across the weekend where it made you forget about what was going on in the world for a split second. And for that WWE should be applauded.

 

[PaperThinWalls]

17 hours ago, Crazy. said:

It was the same old, tired formula that his matches have been following since August '14 when he beat Cena, just on a larger scale because it was in the Royal Rumble match and he entered first. Most of the people saw it coming the moment his entry was announced at #1 because his match formula had become super predictable. He didn't look remotely tired one bit even after eliminating every single person pre-Ricochet and his only effective selling was after he got eliminated. Not completely sucking at the very basics is the very least I expect from any wrestler and nothing to brag about.

I was only counting the matches where he was directly pinned/submitted and got 5 by that criteria. I never implied that he is easily beatable when he loses. just that it happens quickly. You'd think that a guy they make out to be invincible wouldn't lose so quickly, within 5 minutes indeed, multiple times.

The concept of the RR match automatically rules your point moot. It wasn't your typical Lesnar match because there were so many variables added to the tired Lesnar formula that it changed it to such an extent that it made it new and even refreshing. Your grotesque negative view of Lesnar has no limits that it seems you can't even get enjoyment from such an original, creatively booked match as the 2020 Men's RR. Also, you probably should watch the match again. You're mischaracterizing it big time. And you minimizing the art of selling says a lot to me about your understanding of pro wrestling and what you get out of it.

3 matches. 3 matches since WM30 that I counted where Lesnar lost super clean in a short (below 6 mins) match. Goldberg, Rollins*, and Drew last night. That is hardly something to get worked up about. 

(*Rollins has beaten him clean twice but his SummerSlam '19 match was a little over 13 mins long)

[JokerVenom]

Personally i thought Brock was brilliant in the Rumble match. It actual showed a story and he made Drew look amazing. Pretty sure Drew has spoken about how Brock helped with ideas and putting the Rumble match together.

[PaperThinWalls]

1 hour ago, glennsoe said:

Regarding the Riplay/Flair match,which was my favorite match of both nights:

Sometimes you elevate the loser in a match and not just the winner,here both Riplay and the nxt title got elevated.

Kudos to the one who laid out the match backstage - would've been better with 80 000 peeps there though..

How'd that work out for Wade Barrett? Dolph Ziggler? Strowman? Shinsuke? Rusev? Countless other NXT callups?