Unpopular Wrestling Opinions XIII

[Guest Fight Me.]

2 minutes ago, Austin3035 said:

Do we even know if Shane is still with the company

We just saw him at WrestleMania lmao

But yes, he's still producing and minority owner.

[The Nerd]

3 hours ago, Luchador LXXXV said:

I want Vince McMahon to retire and completely leave the company to Shane, Stephanie and Trips and for them to reboot WWE the way WCW did in 2000 (hopefully just way better) where they vacated the championships, ended all storylines to make new ones, trimmed the roster, ended WCW Saturday Night (in this case, end 205), have a creative team shake up and rebranded the company with an all new logo and stage set ups.

Stephanie and Trips can have NXT and Raw while Shane oversees Smackdown and is completely in charge of that brand. 

Yeah I know this sounds better for something in a story creator or universe mode in a wwe 2k game but still. I really do feel wwe needs a massive shake up!

Him retiring and leaving isn’t going to be as good as we think in the grand scheme. I get it though. 

 

3 hours ago, Luchador LXXXV said:

I want Vince McMahon to retire and completely leave the company to Shane, Stephanie and Trips and for them to reboot WWE the way WCW did in 2000 (hopefully just way better) where they vacated the championships, ended all storylines to make new ones, trimmed the roster, ended WCW Saturday Night (in this case, end 205), have a creative team shake up and rebranded the company with an all new logo and stage set ups.

Stephanie and Trips can have NXT and Raw while Shane oversees Smackdown and is completely in charge of that brand. 

Yeah I know this sounds better for something in a story creator or universe mode in a wwe 2k game but still. I really do feel wwe needs a massive shake up!

Him leaving and retiring or whatever isn’t going to be as good as we think it is. While he makes all the decisions he’s not alone in his bullshit and bad decisions. 

[Senex Beast]

It won't happen but I wouldn't mind Ricochet winning MITB!

Edited June 22, 2021 by Luchador LXXXV

[Senex Beast]

12 minutes ago, The Nerd said:

Him retiring and leaving isn’t going to be as good as we think in the grand scheme. I get it though. 

Him leaving and retiring or whatever isn’t going to be as good as we think it is. While he makes all the decisions he’s not alone in his bullshit and bad decisions. 

I disagree and think it'll be awesome and so refreshing but we'll just see someday though. I don't ever see him retiring and giving up the company until he dies, which I'm sure it won't happen any time soon and I hope he doesn't die soon as much as I want major changes. I wish he would retire but wouldn't mind him living to be over 100 years old

[PaperThinWalls]

Vince was never that good of a booker. His general creative philosophy has pretty much always sucked. What he excels at is promoting and being a personality. While I have not seen a whole lot of the Attitude era yet (I was a Nitro kid), I have been watching RAW ‘97 for over a year and what has made that year at least better than majority of today’s product is four things: no scripted promos, not homogenized, the creative was generally more grounded, and yes — better talent. So I disagree with your assessment that this era is no worse, no better than any era. It’s worse and what makes it worse is beyond the talent and Vince’s stupid, inane ideas. It’s the overall corporate feel of it all. It’s less authentic. It’s more patterned. And it’s sterile.

[Austin3035]

Bel Air needs to drop the hair they've done everything they can do with it now it's just getting burnt out and overused like we get it find something else to stand out with or change it up and get something new you burnt record

[OPC 2023]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:08 AM, Austin3035 said:

Bel Air needs to drop the hair they've done everything they can do with it now it's just getting burnt out and overused like we get it find something else to stand out with or change it up and get something new you burnt record

No way should she do that. That's one of the things that should always be part of her character.

[The Nerd]

On 6/22/2021 at 8:13 PM, PaperThinWalls said:

Vince was never that good of a booker. His general creative philosophy has pretty much always sucked. What he excels at is promoting and being a personality. While I have not seen a whole lot of the Attitude era yet (I was a Nitro kid), I have been watching RAW ‘97 for over a year and what has made that year at least better than majority of today’s product is four things: no scripted promos, not homogenized, the creative was generally more grounded, and yes — better talent. So I disagree with your assessment that this era is no worse, no better than any era. It’s worse and what makes it worse is beyond the talent and Vince’s stupid, inane ideas. It’s the overall corporate feel of it all. It’s less authentic. It’s more patterned. And it’s sterile.

100% disagree. 

[PaperThinWalls]

You think scripted promos are an improvement?

[The Nerd]

I think scripted or not some people just aren’t promo guys. Cesaro for instance, horrible promo work. Im sure he was given more freedom during his program with Rollins and Reigns. Yet still, horrible imo on mic. Is it an improvement overall? Can’t say. Are scripted promos the end all be all of problems? No. Not to me. 

[Counting Lights]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:08 AM, Austin3035 said:

Bel Air needs to drop the hair they've done everything they can do with it now it's just getting burnt out and overused like we get it find something else to stand out with or change it up and get something new you burnt record

What if, and bare with me here.... what if she just likes having her hair that long?

[Senex Beast]

Piper/Doudrop is a big girl but has a very pretty face..and I'm thirsty for her cleavage.  She's also great in the ring and definitely at least way better than Nia Jax in every way and I like Nia Rose but Piper is better too. I hate that she's made her wwe debut by being associated with Eva Marie and having this dumbass name but am glad she's getting a push and these big wins!

I still can't stand Matt Riddle and his character but damn he's good in the ring and I'm actually liking RKBro. So I guess technically that makes me a fan of his of sorts now?

[PaperThinWalls]

4 hours ago, The Nerd said:

I think scripted or not some people just aren’t promo guys. Cesaro for instance, horrible promo work. Im sure he was given more freedom during his program with Rollins and Reigns. Yet still, horrible imo on mic. Is it an improvement overall? Can’t say. Are scripted promos the end all be all of problems? No. Not to me. 

Of course, not everyone can talk. I agree his promos are not a strong asset of his but he’s better than the promos they give him and forced to recite. Have you seen him on Talking Smack? His work is much more natural and organic. He talks like a real person just like others who've been on the show, too. There's a more natural flow to their words.

It's not just the delivery of promos either, it's the content and all the silly parameters that the talent have to navigate through now (i.e. you can't say "title shot," it's a "title opportunity”; the fans must always be referred to as the "WWE Universe."). Like I think Drew would be better off not shoehorning Scottish history lessons (clearly written by some writer) in his promos or having Bianca and Strowman go on about bullies in a very forced, PSA-type way. You weren’t getting that in ‘97 — at least not to this extent.

And remember, I'm not just talking about scripted promos. That's just one example that gives the product a much more of a programmed feel now. There’s more and it all adds up.

[Generations]

On 6/22/2021 at 8:13 PM, PaperThinWalls said:

Vince was never that good of a booker. His general creative philosophy has pretty much always sucked. What he excels at is promoting and being a personality. While I have not seen a whole lot of the Attitude era yet (I was a Nitro kid), I have been watching RAW ‘97 for over a year and what has made that year at least better than majority of today’s product is four things: no scripted promos, not homogenized, the creative was generally more grounded, and yes — better talent. So I disagree with your assessment that this era is no worse, no better than any era. It’s worse and what makes it worse is beyond the talent and Vince’s stupid, inane ideas. It’s the overall corporate feel of it all. It’s less authentic. It’s more patterned. And it’s sterile.

 

I agree with everything , aside from "better talent".

Talent wise, I think modern WWE is the best it has ever been. But, getting people to apply that talent (or even understand how to) is the true problem. I think you said it best when you said "homogenized" and "sterile". Modern WWE is all about doing the same thing, doing it precisely, and doing it over and over again. I think a lot of these modern talents have been conditioned to completely miss what being a "great wrestler" even means. At its core, the performance center, promo classes, (and everything else that WWE offers) sound great on paper. But, the underlying problem exists...that if everyone trains the same and learns promos the same, then they will be the same. And truly great professional wrestling is about being different, not being the same. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Generations

[PaperThinWalls]

I think in terms of quantity, today's roster has '97 beat (it certainly helps that today's size is much, much bigger which increases their odds). But in terms of having the best workers? It's still '97 for me. I'll take Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, Mankind and maybe Undertaker in '97 over every single wrestler on today's roster. Their overall work (in-ring, promos, psychology) is just better to me and it does definitely have to do with training. You're 100% right on the PC, but I also think it extends beyond that. I think training overall is lacking nowadays -- but I think that's a whole other topic.

[Generations]

Really hard to compare some of today's talents to people like Owen and Bret, HBK, Austin, etc...because, how would we know? That's kinda what I'm getting at.

WWE is intentionally so formulaic now, that you don't even get the opportunity to see if people can work like that, because WWE doesn't want them to. You can't take what you get from WWE television at face value, or say "the old days had better workers"...because, so much is being micromanaged now. Time and time again, we've seen talent blatantly wasted. Today, you have your AJ Styles, your Daniel Bryan, your Kevin Owens, etc. I think you could easily compare them to your HBKs, your Owen Harts, your Austins. But there is this tangible weight that holds all of those guys down, and that weight is the formula of WWE. They don't take chances on the guys like that. They did in the past, because they didn't have such a strict formula. But for at least a decade and a half now, the formula has been to hold one person above everyone else.

You had the Cena era, and then you had the Roman era...with very little overlap. When you talk about the attitude era, you're talking about an era that hinged on overlap. It was great because they pushed everyone fairly equally. They ran Austin/Rock/Bret/Taker/HBK, etc. all at the same time. Then they had the second tier, which was guys like Kane/Mankind/Big Show/Jericho, and so on. They didn't just say "Austin is the one top star and nobody else matters as much"...which is pretty much what their formula has been for all of the 2010's onward, and it's why (in my opinion) the product has not been engaging at all for the past decade and a half.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Generations

[Senex Beast]

Old school wrestling and into the early 2000's had such a bigger than life charm and feel that still holds up for many. The wrestlers as far as in the ring ranged from great to very average to extremely weak but that didn't matter to a lot of fans much and just look how basic old school wrestling was but it was all about the characters, promos, segments, big feel matches and moments.

 

Today's wrestlers are average to amazing in the ring and super athletes but wrestlers from different eras were so memorable with such presence and it's not really just because of booking or mic skills. Like I said, they had a unique charm

[PaperThinWalls]

2 hours ago, Generations said:

Really hard to compare some of today's talents to people like Owen and Bret, HBK, Austin, etc...because, how would we know? That's kinda what I'm getting at.

WWE is intentionally so formulaic now, that you don't even get the opportunity to see if people can work like that, because WWE doesn't want them to. You can't take what you get from WWE television at face value, or say "the old days had better workers"...because, so much is being micromanaged now. Time and time again, we've seen talent blatantly wasted. Today, you have your AJ Styles, your Daniel Bryan, your Kevin Owens, etc. I think you could easily compare them to your HBKs, your Owen Harts, your Austins. But there is this tangible weight that holds all of those guys down, and that weight is the formula of WWE. They don't take chances on the guys like that. They did in the past, because they didn't have such a strict formula. But for at least a decade and a half now, the formula has been to hold one person above everyone else.

You had the Cena era, and then you had the Roman era...with very little overlap. When you talk about the attitude era, you're talking about an era that hinged on overlap. It was great because they pushed everyone fairly equally. They ran Austin/Rock/Bret/Taker/HBK, etc. all at the same time. Then they had the second tier, which was guys like Kane/Mankind/Big Show/Jericho, and so on. They didn't just say "Austin is the one top star and nobody else matters as much"...which is pretty much what their formula has been for all of the 2010's onward, and it's why (in my opinion) the product has not been engaging at all for the past decade and a half.

For this discussion, I’m only talking about ‘97 because that’s the only year I can fairly judge since I’ve been watching it. I haven’t gotten to ‘98 or beyond, so I’m not going to comment on anything from that period. Just want to be clear on that.

I’m not just talking about WWE, though. I’m talking about the whole wrestling scene (that I’ve seen in the US at least) for the past 15 years or so — so the WWE style isn’t applicable for everyone. Like AEW guys or the past work of talent who developed in the indies. And from what I’ve seen (which is very key here, I haven’t seen everything) the past 15 years or so haven’t cranked out a Bret Hart or a Steve Austin. The closest we’ve gotten (in the US at least...) imo is CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. No doubt theres been a wealth of great talent but other than those two, I can’t say any of them are near the level of a Bret or Austin. Nowhere near. And so why is that? There’s a multitude of reasons (namely WWE), but I think one of them is the training and I think a lot of the talent today just aren’t trained with the same mind for the profession like those two (or all the other guys I mentioned) were. Ultimately, it’s a subjective thing but these guys got over. Yes, the less restrictive parameters helped GREATLY but again, there’s more to it than the WWE apparatus. It’s beyond that.

[Austin3035]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:18 PM, Dagameplayer said:

No way should she do that. That's one of the things that should always be part of her character.

 

13 hours ago, Counting Lights said:

What if, and bare with me here.... what if she just likes having her hair that long?

And that's fine but don't make it the sole focus of her character have her stand out for something else besides that

[Generations]

57 minutes ago, Austin3035 said:

 

And that's fine but don't make it the sole focus of her character have her stand out for something else besides that

 

It's not the sole focus of her character. She's an amazing athlete and a solid entertainer. 

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying "Conan O'Brien doesn't need his pompadour". He literally doesn't. That's just his signature look.

Her hair can be whatever length she *censored*ing wants it to be.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Generations

[Austin3035]

7 hours ago, Generations said:

 

It's not the sole focus of her character. She's an amazing athlete and a solid entertainer. 

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying "Conan O'Brien doesn't need his pompadour". He literally doesn't. That's just his signature look.

Her hair can be whatever length she *censored*ing wants it to be.

One I never said anything about her getting rid of the long hair and yeah her hair is pretty much the sole focus of her character because her hair has been her soul focus of her character since the very beginning and after what she did with it during hell in a cell is getting kind of ridiculous

[Counting Lights]

Austin you are peak comedy man

[The Nerd]

I thought banned…..nvm. 

[The Nerd]

You know who gets shit on a lot that I’ve always loved? Michael Cole. Flaws and all he’s always been my favorite after JR & King. Cole carried/carries shit. Mistakes and all, he’s everything. He’s underrated af. He has sold a lot of moments on commentary. His commentary on WM 30, putting over Daniel Bryan as a star the way JR used to do Austin and more. His professional and emotional commentary when King had an actual Heart Attack on live tv. His commentary during Mankind winning the WWE title. His commentary on the match with Cody Rhodes vs Orton when Cody’s career was on the line. “Kick out kid, kick out!” The passion. I could go on actually. Just saying Cole gets shit on a lot. He’s not perfect by any means but he’s a great commentator. Idc. 

[Jeb ★]

Yea I haven't disliked Michael Cole since his heel Miz fanboy run ended, even if I still make fun of him sometimes. Might have to do with him carrying RAW when Lawler had a heart attack, but I've appreciated him for years especially his work on SmackDown these past two years