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2K Games is expanding, WWE games overhaul expected


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#101 RickyBobby

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 09:51 PM

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.


Edited by timschel, 31 July 2018 - 09:51 PM.


#102 Muur

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 09:57 PM

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.

 

 

I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class

 

There are people that miss the arcade game play style.

 

And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it


Edited by Muur, 31 July 2018 - 09:58 PM.


#103 A.O.L.

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 10:08 PM

Alright Murr pack it up. Lol We get it.

#104 Ernez

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 10:24 PM

 

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.

 

 

I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class

 

There are people that miss the arcade game play style.

 

And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it

 

Gotta admit, you're fighting a stupid battle here. If ANY company said their game didn't have problems, I would run. Every single game ever will have their problems, especially yearly games. He no way called them shit, he said they need improvement.

 

EDIT: Also I'm one of those "I like the simulation better" guys. I would take this gameplay over ANY THQ game. 



#105 ANTI-

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 10:48 PM


 


"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "
 
I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 
no dude... stop twisting my words. 
i never used the word "shit" in my response.
 
and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.
 
 
I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class
 
There are people that miss the arcade game play style.
 
And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it

I remember All Stars. Not that good. Even the games we so highly praise, if you go back and play them, they kinda suck after how far we have come. The games arent perfect but theyre the best theyve ever been, in every aspect. With all the change in WWE and all the shit they had to pull off for 2K18 (barring the many issues that came to be), could you imagine if they had an extra 6 months or a year or 2 years to work on a follow up? Holy shit.

Edited by ANTI-, 31 July 2018 - 10:52 PM.


#106 Muur

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:12 AM

 

 

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.

 

 

I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class

 

There are people that miss the arcade game play style.

 

And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it

 

Gotta admit, you're fighting a stupid battle here. If ANY company said their game didn't have problems, I would run. Every single game ever will have their problems, especially yearly games. He no way called them shit, he said they need improvement.

 

EDIT: Also I'm one of those "I like the simulation better" guys. I would take this gameplay over ANY THQ game. 

 

 

Normally you'd expect an employee to say their game is the best ever and there's no faults etc

 

And I'm team THQ/last gen gameplay. 


Edited by Muur, 01 August 2018 - 02:13 AM.


#107 EJ!

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:19 AM

I would much rather honesty up front than finding out the truth later which is what THQ allowed us to do all the time.

Edited by EJ!, 01 August 2018 - 02:20 AM.


#108 Ernez

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:42 AM

 

 

 

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.

 

 

I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class

 

There are people that miss the arcade game play style.

 

And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it

 

Gotta admit, you're fighting a stupid battle here. If ANY company said their game didn't have problems, I would run. Every single game ever will have their problems, especially yearly games. He no way called them shit, he said they need improvement.

 

EDIT: Also I'm one of those "I like the simulation better" guys. I would take this gameplay over ANY THQ game. 

 

 

Normally you'd expect an employee to say their game is the best ever and there's no faults etc

 

And I'm team THQ/last gen gameplay. 

 

Guess ya don't pay attention much to the video game industry? There is quite a lot of people who say their games need work, or improvements. Skyrim was a big one, developers in that also said there was so much they wish they could do, or they wanted to do.



#109 abhunter

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:34 AM

The problem with the game NOT being a yearly title would
Be the roster. Unless they did updates to add people but I just dont see that actually happening ever.

#110 liontamer*

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:28 AM

The problem with the game NOT being a yearly title would
Be the roster. Unless they did updates to add people but I just dont see that actually happening ever.


Not having an updated roster is a compromise I'd happily accept at this point if it means a better game.

#111 M3J

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 09:01 AM

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "

 

I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 

no dude... stop twisting my words. 

i never used the word "shit" in my response.

 

and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.

 

Muur does that a lot, dunno if he does it on purpose though. You shouldn't worry about it.

 

I personally don't mind simulation or arcade, as long as the gameplay is fun, and we have tons of moves. 



#112 A.O.L.

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:10 PM

I personally wouldnt be upset if they did take two years to finish the next entry. I think they need a good two years on one game and then the base game would be outstanding. But you know, contracts.

#113 Shiftygism

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:22 PM


 


"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "
 
I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 
no dude... stop twisting my words. 
i never used the word "shit" in my response.
 
and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.
 
 
I feel like doing what THQ did and having a different style of game play - arcade - every few years is the best way to do that. All Stars was class
 
There are people that miss the arcade game play style.
 
And you didn't use the word shit, sure but you said there are problems with the game. Which means you think there's stuff that is bad and that there are people who don't like it
I remember All Stars. Not that good. Even the games we so highly praise, if you go back and play them, they kinda suck after how far we have come. The games arent perfect but theyre the best theyve ever been, in every aspect. With all the change in WWE and all the shit they had to pull off for 2K18 (barring the many issues that came to be), could you imagine if they had an extra 6 months or a year or 2 years to work on a follow up? Holy shit.

All Stars was actually pretty god damned amazing, still holds up, and is the most revolutionary step a wrestling title has taken gameplay-wise since the genre went 3D.

While the moveslist was limited and on the surface seemed like a shallow fighter, it in reality had more depth and diversity than anything before or since with how they broke things up into specific classes, then further varied the styles of every individual within each eliminating the standard vanilla affair that all wrestling games have with rosters that control the same across the board. Because of that it made learning the ins and outs of each character great fun, learning the best strategies to succeed as every class played differently.

It had a tremendously deep reversal system allowing blocks and reversals of reversals. And outside of an exploitable dlc move or two that were never addressed, it was actually balanced for competitive play unlike the Smackdown legacy games which have always benefited those that spam crap. Seriously, the finals of the Million Dollar Challenge is gonna be an absolute shit show if people play like the idjits online.

But yeah, All Stars was and still is amazing and if someone had taken that, toned it back down to its TNA Impact roots, and added more moves, it would've made a great base for a simulation, especially given at its core under all the flash and brawling aspects tacked on there was a standard AKI-like control scheme holding it together.

Great, great, game....wrestling or otherwise.

#114 eastcoastkody

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 04:32 PM

allstars the only wrestling game, i thought about buying the damn strategy guide for



#115 CMpunk867

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 04:41 PM


"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "
 
I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 
no dude... stop twisting my words. 
i never used the word "shit" in my response.
 
and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.


This is exactly the problem. This is WWE to the core and of course 2k is compliant they like the money coming in even if its not a huge profit because they dont relay on the WWE series for profits. they know the hardcore fans will buy the game no matter what, they dont cater to us. When you say you want to appeal to everyone it means you want to do things with the game that appeals to people who dont necessarily like wrestling. THATS A problem, its why WWE gets so much heat as well. Lets face it guys, these games are wrestling games but they are not made for passionate wrestling fans, its made for everyone because its those casual gamers that they make their money off of, they know they have the hardcore wrestling gamers money.

Simple, easy additions like a tower mode is appealing to the eyes because its new but dont tell me that took a lot of thought process. Its copy and paste from a fighting game and wrestling games are not fighting games! Not the same thing... dont get me started on the loots.

#116 eastcoastkody

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 05:02 PM

 

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "
 
I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 
no dude... stop twisting my words. 
i never used the word "shit" in my response.
 
and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.


This is exactly the problem. This is WWE to the core and of course 2k is compliant they like the money coming in even if its not a huge profit because they dont relay on the WWE series for profits. they know the hardcore fans will buy the game no matter what, they dont cater to us. When you say you want to appeal to everyone it means you want to do things with the game that appeals to people who dont necessarily like wrestling. THATS A problem, its why WWE gets so much heat as well. Lets face it guys, these games are wrestling games but they are not made for passionate wrestling fans, its made for everyone because its those casual gamers that they make their money off of, they know they have the hardcore wrestling gamers money.

Simple, easy additions like a tower mode is appealing to the eyes because its new but dont tell me that took a lot of thought process. Its copy and paste from a fighting game and wrestling games are not fighting games! Not the same thing... dont get me started on the loots.

 

 

hmm. I think id qualify as a hardcore wrestling gamer. I mean...i was importing Fire Pro games back in 1997. I've used a kitchen knife to cut grooves into a Super Famicom copy of All Japan Wrestling 2: 3-4 Budoukan to get it to work on an american SNES. I wrote a review on GFAQs for NJPW  toukon retsuden 4 on Dreamcast 17 years ago.

 

and i think WWE 2ks pretty good. Its got best american roster in a wrestling game every year. It has more move positions than any other wrestling game. Probably more moves than any other wrestling game. For me, the only thing holding it back from going from pretty good to great is the A.I

 

its not like 2k some evil company putting out a crappy game they threw together to make a quick buck. They bought an existing game franchise. Made by a japanese dev.



#117 Shiftygism

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 05:37 PM

Lets face it guys, these games are wrestling games but they are not made for passionate wrestling fans, its made for everyone because its those casual gamers that they make their money off of, they know they have the hardcore wrestling gamers money.

 

 

I actually feel the opposite on this, these games absolutely are targeted to the passionate wrestling fans and that's why the genre has been so slow to evolve and has been stagnate for ages. We all come on here every year demanding this and that and expect them to nail every little minute detail when in the grand scale of things....don't f'n matter. We're too concerned with window dressing, and with the decline of wrestling popularity in the 2,000's and the loss of a lot of casual players, the developers started paying more attention to their core fanbase and catering to them. Problem is, wrestling is now more popular than it has been in ages and a whole host of casual fans want to get in on the genre, but all that's available is Fire Pro which unfortunately has limited appeal with it's retro look, and 2K which is too heavy into simulation (for some) and has stupidly shed all of the modes that appealed to those that don't want to spend hours upon hours setting up a poorly designed season mode that offers so little in return. While something like All Stars absolutely should exist alongside of the main series, the main series needs to get back to offering a little bit for everyone.



#118 M3J

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:19 PM

I personally wouldnt be upset if they did take two years to finish the next entry. I think they need a good two years on one game and then the base game would be outstanding. But you know, contracts.

Same. I'd rather even wait for three years if that's what it takes for a mindblowing game. Plus, it can help sell the game even more over a yearly release because there'd be more new contents.



#119 A.O.L.

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:21 PM

Agreed.

#120 CMpunk867

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:41 PM


 

 

"No one is more critical of this game and wants to fix the problems more than me. My point is - the simulation direction is not inherently problematic. Its the current execution that has soured people on the idea that it can be done while still remaining fun. "
 
I mean, saying that he has things he thinks are shit and need fixing and that a lot of people don't like the simulation, as well as people being "soured" on it is kinda saying that the games aren't very good/people don't like them

 
no dude... stop twisting my words. 
i never used the word "shit" in my response.
 
and for every person who claims they don't like simulation, i can find someone who does... ultimately we want our audience to be as big as possible - that means appealing to as many people as possible.
This is exactly the problem. This is WWE to the core and of course 2k is compliant they like the money coming in even if its not a huge profit because they dont relay on the WWE series for profits. they know the hardcore fans will buy the game no matter what, they dont cater to us. When you say you want to appeal to everyone it means you want to do things with the game that appeals to people who dont necessarily like wrestling. THATS A problem, its why WWE gets so much heat as well. Lets face it guys, these games are wrestling games but they are not made for passionate wrestling fans, its made for everyone because its those casual gamers that they make their money off of, they know they have the hardcore wrestling gamers money.

Simple, easy additions like a tower mode is appealing to the eyes because its new but dont tell me that took a lot of thought process. Its copy and paste from a fighting game and wrestling games are not fighting games! Not the same thing... dont get me started on the loots.
 
 
hmm. I think id qualify as a hardcore wrestling gamer. I mean...i was importing Fire Pro games back in 1997. I've used a kitchen knife to cut grooves into a Super Famicom copy of All Japan Wrestling 2: 3-4 Budoukan to get it to work on an american SNES. I wrote a review on GFAQs for NJPW  toukon retsuden 4 on Dreamcast 17 years ago.
 
and i think WWE 2ks pretty good. Its got best american roster in a wrestling game every year. It has more move positions than any other wrestling game. Probably more moves than any other wrestling game. For me, the only thing holding it back from going from pretty good to great is the A.I
 
its not like 2k some evil company putting out a crappy game they threw together to make a quick buck. They bought an existing game franchise. Made by a japanese dev.

If you dont think thats exactly what its about then business doesnt enter your brain. Wwe is an easy brand to pull in profit. They havent even come close to changing the game like they have been saying at the start of this console gen. Btw I never said the game is crappy but it sure as hell isnt trending in the right direction like we all thought it would with 2k, its gone the opposite direction. Its obvious which is why they released that information saying now where going to invest more into wwe games... wellllll no shit lol. You said it yourself they bought a game that has already the groundwork done and yet here we are....

Im not questioning the passion of us here who love wrestling games. Its the people who actually make these games and that to me will always be critical because to make a great wrestling game which then turns into a good game period has to have the passion for he business just like we all do, which is why I always felt like the older games were better. They better authenticated the product in more ways than move sets and how good the models are, its the little things that make us like certain wrestlers, etc

Edited by CMpunk867, 01 August 2018 - 07:48 PM.