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EJ!

Future Gameplay Ideas and Improvements Thread

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Now that we've had a lot of time to play 2K18, I think it's time to bring this thread back and look toward the future. I would love to see what mechanics need improvement and what needs to be implemented for the gameplay to be better. This is for core gameplay mechanics only, so nothing about MyCareer or CAW mode or Inferno match or Community Creations etc., just because I think all that stuff gets enough voices for it and core gameplay isn't really talked about enough.

 

I'll start with the (edited) written feedback I sent for the gameplay section of that survey with a few more additions. Of course I don't expect any of this to make it in any time soon but since I'm a nerd and literally daydream of how the gameplay could be better, I type these things up at any slight opportunity that somebody at 2K might consider them.

 

@GMP: I stole the hell out of your bracing idea from the old thread and put my own twist on it.

 

 

The AI still has a long way to go. Things like going for rest holds or limb targeting moves after hitting signatures or finishers late in the match has to stop. This year the AI just spammed the Oklahoma Slam carry position and dropped me on the top rope. There are way too many clueless moments. It would be wonderful if the AI varies for each superstar so that players would have to strategize with each match. Maybe one superstar will try to wear down limbs to make submission easier, maybe a powerhouse would try and carry the player around the ring so players should do what they can to avoid that. For lifelong players, there is no such thing as getting better at the game and new players catch on way too easily. Other sports titles have players playing for the entire year until the next game releases because the gameplay has enough variation and challenge to keep the player involved. Many people only stick with WWE games for the creation suite because the gameplay gets old quicker than it should. I think it should be best to stuff as many things to learn and master about gameplay as possible.

 

Speaking of strategy, there's nothing that makes a player good at the game. I understand the want for new players, but the game may be too pickup-n-play. Wrestling is psychological and the games should reflect that. The gameplay should be as nuanced as possible, every aspect of the gameplay should affect other aspects of the gameplay. Right now all we have is "watch your stamina or you can't run or do certain moves", "if you target a limb throughout the match, making your opponent tap to a submission is much easier", "the more damage you take, the harder it will be to kick out of pinfall attempts" and that's about it. Wrestling is much deeper than that. The gameplay feels too linear. What about "if your legs have been badly damaged, lifting opponents is much more difficult, kicks do much less damage and may not even knock your opponent down, running is much more difficult" or "if your arms are badly damaged, punches and clotheslines are weaker, holding onto submissions is much harder, certain lifts like suplexes and military presses are harder to do", "if your head is badly damaged, everything is harder to do and you might find yourself groggy much more often even on offense". There should be plenty of animations to accompany these gameplay aspects. I remember in games like WWF No Mercy and the Day of Reckoning series, there were button-tapping mini-games for lifting opponents that were much heavier, there's no reason something like this can't be carried over to a modern day game. Attributes still do not do nearly enough to impact gameplay. Strength should mean something, speed should mean something.

 

High-risk moves should really mean high risk, that means for the player performing them too. Players should really decide which big moves are worth attempting because the player should suffer the consequence of the move as well. I am terribly tired of seeing people get right back up after hitting things like superplexes and announce table finishers. I don't care how much stamina one has, nobody should get immediately back up after doing something like that. Ladder matches are so incredibly easy because of this problem.

 

Also, I think damage and stamina should be more closely related and there should be more low stamina animations and effects than just dropping to a knee and occasionally staying down for a little longer after performing a finisher. There should be stumbling and staggering and leaning onto things to regain stamina. Heavily damaged and low stamina should affect pin combos as well. For example, if RVD is heavily damaged and performs the frog splash with the last of his stamina, the pin combo shouldn't work or at the very least respond very slowly, slow enough for the opponent to possibly kickout after being given a precious second or two to recover. Also, to add to strategy, I think once your body gets to a certain level of damage, your stamina only goes up so far which isn't really that far which would force players and the AI not to waste movements because a simple mistake or miscalculation can cost the match. We need to be able to naturally create moments that cause both competitors to be down so that we can have the return of the 10-count system from SvR 2006 and also so that comebacks and hot tags come more naturally. There should be recovery animations after big move sequences when a person is damaged or their stamina bar is in the purple state. So if I have a damaged torso and I pull off a nice rebound reversal I should take a second to tend to my injuries. Would be a nice touch. Also, I recently saw a clip from SvR 2008 and Orton's head was heavily damaged and he was selling that for the rest of the match by holding his head. As mediocre as that game was, that's something simple that it got correct. The only injury selling currently in the game is the ref stoppage which, though it may be a nice touch, is almost unnecessary. Without the limb damage graphic on the HUD, you wouldn't know that a wrestler was on the verge of a TKO because he shows no signs of it until the ref suddenly stops his opponent from attacking further. Wrestlers gotta sell their damage, that's wrestling psychology 101.

 

I like to think of weight detection and physics together. I mentioned the old minigame to lift heavier opponents, the success of this minigame should be dependent on one's size and also their strength attribute (for the smaller competitors). Kalisto vs Braun Strowman shouldn't play out the same way as Cena vs Orton. Kalisto should be looking to chop Braun down by targeting his legs and chopping his limbs and taking calculated risks but overall playing defensively, looking to escape and reverse every chance he gets. Braun, on the other hand, should be looking to manhandle Kalisto and throw him around. This is where I wanna talk about physics. Braun throwing Kalisto should not look the same as Braun throwing Orton. So I think if models had real weight, if there was a real sense of momentum/speed, and if the strength attribute meant even more, an organic free form physics engine could make for some realistically brutal sells if everything falls into place, adding to overall fun of the game. I was thinking every move should start with a base animation that briefly plays out until a certain point where the physics kick in so we can have different landings and reactions. The same lariat could look completely different every time you perform it, depending on who it's performed on. A lariat could fully flip Kalisto in the air, could explode Triple H onto the mat or send Brock Lesnar staggering into the ropes, all dependent on differing factors. Someone like Braun would be truly a blast to play as with something like this in game. I thought pin combos and whatever else may be negatively affected by this, but I noticed that currently, whenever the Havok physics sneaks in causes an unanimated sell/landing, the game does a decent job of transitioning/correcting the wrestler back into an animated position or for position feeding, so with a fully functional physics engine that would just happen a lot more. Also tables should break more naturally dependent on how they’re landed on, that goes for ladders too (and setup chairs, please). So a ladder bridge shouldn't always break from a regular grounded powerbomb onto it, it depends on who is being powerbombed.

 

Reversals need to be greatly expanded on. I HATE the reversal animations that have arbitrary moves attached to them that may or may not be a part of our movesets or are highly out of character. I think regular reversals should just be escapes, dodges, and blocks and what moves are done after should be up to us. We should be allowed to pick reversals for more than just kick blocks, we should be allowed to pick reversals for punch blocks, chain wrestling (which should be greatly expanded on also in ways that I don't think necessary to put in detail) and mid-move reversals as well. We should be able to reverse moves into submissions if we want to. I think reversals should be reversible, so that buff after major reversals should be removed (major reversals should not take two slots, that adds an unnecessary limit to the potential of matches). This should be extended to diving move reversals as well so say I go for a 450 and my opponent moves, if I'm on top of my game I should be able to reverse that and land on my feet. I think running corner attacks should be reversible in the way that the person in the corner can explode out of the corner with a running attack of their own or a rebound attack (I'll explain in greater detail later how I think this would work best). The striking on the top of ladders should be carried over to potential top rope moves with the winner of the battle either doing a top rope grapple or a diving move depending on what side of the exchange they are on. Let us reverse diving moves with strikes that aren't finishers. Getting flipped over the top rope should be fully reversible by landing on the apron feet-first or skinning the cat or landing safely outside.

 

Bracing should be added to designated to a button different from the reversal button, we'll say L2. Bracing would be a way to take less damage from moves that requires 50% of a reversal slot, or better yet has its own set of slots (for an idea I have) and have a more forgiving window of opportunity than reversals. This could play out in an animation that sees the player resist falling from a strike or just having the player take the move normally but just not lose as much momentum or take as much damage as usual and recover a bit quicker. Pressing the reversal button and the brace button at the same time would result in a valiant no-sell but the window for this would be very, very precise and would require lvl 3 Resiliency and can only be done once so that it can't be abused and that it remains a rare occurrence. Bracing can be used for those back and forth strike sequences where the crowd cheers when the baby face lands a punch and boos when the heel lands a punch. So both competitors have permanently low stamina for the rest of the match, a player could brace for a punch or kick which would momentarily stun the opponent long enough to strike back and this could continue back and forth until the brace slots run out or till someone decides to reverse. This would all happen naturally based on player strategy and decision-making within a match.

 

I propose an improvement to overall movement animations. The running animation is terrible, but beyond that, it's unrealistic to fully jog while IN RING. Wrestlers in real life either cover distance with a few long strides or a few very fast strides, never a full run. I don't like the look of walking nonchalantly for a pin or to pick up my opponent or anything. Just like with running, in ring, players should not be walking like they're at the mall. Again wrestlers close the distance between them and their opponent or whatever their in-ring destination may be with a few long strides or a purposeful hop-skip. So I propose that controls work from anywhere within a reasonable radius of the desired destination. What I mean by that is if I do a move that sends my opponent across the ring, I should be able to press circle and there would be a realistic animation that sees me cover the distance to pin my opponent, so every move should have a pin combo with these animations in the game because crawling to a pin is a possible animation depending on the move that was done. I could go to pick up my opponent like this. If I want to climb the middle rope or get on the apron/leave the ring, I should be able to point the stick in that direction and tap/hold the action button and a realistic animation would play out that sees me cover the distance to those destinations. Last example, if my opponent is in the corner, I can aim the left stick at him and either A. press the grapple button, B. flick the right stick to go reposition him, or C. press the strike button to go for a corner attack. Option C brings us back to my earlier reversal idea, as the running animation plays out, the person in the corner would get two very quick reversal windows, one right when the runner reaches the corner which would have the reverser move/block/counter, and a window before the runner reaches the corner where the reverser explodes out of the corner to do a rebound attack or pin (think the way Sami Zayn does his corner exploder). You can incentivize the use of option C by making it so that a successful running attack results in more damage and momentum. These movement animations should be fully interruptible both manually and by interference and can also be sped up by holding the run button but this would cost stamina with the amount of stamina varying depending on the distance being covered. I guess an easier way to describe these movement animations is to say overall movement would be more similar to the way corner vs grounded opponent animations work with the difference being that you don't have to be in the corner nor do you have to be on the attack. This wouldn't replace regular movement, just provides a sensible and realistic alternative.

 

Last of all, the gameplay lacks room for creativity. In one of the previous pages we were asked, which match types need most improvement and I figured "one-on-one" because I believe if the core is as good as it can be, all the extra match types would fall into place because then it would be just adding a delicious dessert to an already hearty dinner. I want to be able to do spots that people haven't thought of yet and I don't mean anything outrageous, but why can't I hop on the announce table freely like in the old games? Why can't I climb atop the barricade like the old games? Why can't I climb regular tables like the old games? Why can't I set up a chair like in the old games? Why can’t I throw a chair like in the old games? Why can't I do running moves off the steel steps like in the old games? All these things we can no longer do for reasons not given should be brought back. There are way too many restrictions and invisible walls. I don't believe in OMG moments because I believe most of the ones we have should be possible organically. I want to create my own OMG moments. I want to set up a ladder bridge inside the ring and diving spear the poor schmuck standing on top off of it. I want to run off of a steel chair and fly to the outside onto my multiple opponents outside (speaking of diving onto multiple opponents, I think there should a visible zone when someone has the potential to dive, those caught in the zone are potential victims. Once the person is in the air, everyone caught in the zone has a quick reversal window to escape the zone. Each successful reversal is a person escaping the zone, if all escape, the diver crashes and burns. If none escape they all fall victim. If few escape...you get it.) I wanna carry a person on my shoulders as I walk up the steel steps and throw him off the steps into a table. I wanna carry someone in spinebuster position (new carry position) and place them on the top rope ready for a grapple or to be knocked the hell off. There is no reason these things shouldn't be possible. Give us a physics system, improve hit detection, remove the walls, restrictions and let this game be our simulation playground.

Even with all that, I forgot a lot and have stuff to add.
-Chain wrestling

Chain wrestling sequences need to be fully customizable. Some people may want to choose to start with a collar & elbow tie-up (R1 + right stick up), others may want to start with a test of strength (R1 + right stick down, leads to old-school button tapping minigame then into new chain wrestling sequence with well timed defensive counter or offensive transition dependent on who's getting the upper hand of the exchange.). Every counter after either is initiated should be customizable even for the big guys. There should be a section of counters to choose in case you are heavily outweighed by your opponent. Chain wrestling does not have to be 90% mat wrestling or hold-for-hold, the fast paced off-the-ropes sequences should be expanded. This type of stuff sets the tone for matches and helps set a match between two cruiserweights apart from two heavyweights.

-More on reversals and bracing

I think Reversal/Brace + a button would initiate specific customizable reversals.
R2/L2 by itself= dodge, escape, block/ contextual brace
R2/L2+X = reversal into grapple or submission (affected by weight detection).
R2/L2+ O = reversal into pin attempt
R2/L2 + square = reversal with a strike
R2/L2 + triangle = reversal into finisher IF finisher is stored and IF it makes sense in context. A lot of times you may be better off just doing a regular reversal and hitting your finisher regularly.
R2/L2 + right stick= positional reversal or reversal into carry (affected by weight detection).
A positional reversal is a reversal that sends the opponent into the corner or against the ropes or outta the ring, etc. Think reversing a DDT by driving your opponent shoulder tackle style into the corner, things like that.
For example, for reversing diving attacks, I can dodge or roll out of the way (R2), I can maybe catch into a submission or grapple(R2+X), I can maybe get my knees up or catch with a dropkick (R2 + square), I can catch a crossbody into the body slam carry position (R2 + stick) or I can roll through into a pin (R2 + Circle), or of course into a finisher.
Certain movements should be reversible. Irish whips should have two quick reversal windows, one before your opponent lets go and the other when you reach the destination you've been thrown to. The second one is to do things like the Baron Corbin slide, or a springboard, or to flip over the turnbuckle onto the apron, to hop over the steel steps, or to fluster your opponent for a running attack, etc. Also, whenever you are in a vulnerable state and your opponent runs the ropes, a well-timed reversal would lead to the psych out animation where you run behind your opponent to the same set of ropes and can hit him with a running behind or a running attack as he turns depending on what psych out animation is chosen in Create a moveset. Could also use this reversal to meet the opponent at the ropes with a strike, or to just do a rebound attack, all up to your moveset.
Auto-reversals should be gone and the reversal should be bigger for any move that is spammed.
Bracing could lead to some cool things. Instead of Ambrose offensively initiating the rebound lariat by awkwardly dragging the opponent to the ropes, if I'm playing as Ambrose and press L2+ hold square to brace a strong strike or any grapple that leaves me on my feet, I would take the hit and stagger back into the ropes for the fully reversible rebound lariat animation, could also work for superkicks and other strikes or for certain running grapples like the sling blade if I hold X, for pins like a schoolboy if I hold circle, or for finishers like the RKO if I hold triangle instead of square. Again, all customizable. There should be entire sections in CAMoveset just for picking how we reverse moves and brace for moves.

Submissions and Limb targeting and damage

Submissions need an overhaul in almost every way. For one, there should be rope break animations, WITH manual release for referee 5-counts, both things we've had before. Strong submissions should be possible from more positions and situations. I already talked about reversals, but there should be more running submissions, diving submissions (think a middle rope diving guillotine choke, flying armbar, triangle choke, etc), rebound submissions, and top rope submissions (captain's hook). There should be submission reversals into submissions, which was in the Day of Reckoning series. There should be a "none" option in CAMoveset for submissions. Reversal system I proposed earlier would work here too and would be affected by weight detection. In 2K18 I powered out of a Boston Crab from Braun and I did not like the way that looked at all. Lastly, the strong submission system itself should be changed into a three-stage system similar to UFC but way less complicated. The current analog stick mini-game in WWE can stay but it would occur twice, first to try and get the hold locked in (could be skipped or done really quickly if victim is low in stamina/high in damage), then to apply the pressure to cause a submission.
Limb targeting should be expanded to more situations than just standing and ground grapples, there should be limb targeting moves for almost every position and I should be able to aim weapons at limbs. Also, there should be counters and mistakes that lead to a limb automatically changing to the next color (may skip the next color if match pace setting is on "normal" or "fast"). For example, dodging your opponent's corner running attack and causing him to run shoulder first into the ring post, missing a diving attack and landing on your ribs, landing on your feet after a missed diving attack but not bracing for impact, things like that.

Groggy state, staggering and offensive countering

Grogginess should mean something again. Any move should be magnified in damage when done to a groggy opponent. There should be different ways to send an opponent into a groggy state via various strikes and grapples because not every move should send an opponent to the mat, which is why there also should be more moves that send the opponent staggering into different vulnerable positions like the corner, leaning against the (middle) ropes, etc depending on the move and what position is closest.
To fluster an opponent into a groggy state or send him staggering, I'm proposing what I call offensive countering. Remember in the old games like in HCTP and SYM there were animations you could do like the pull back irish whip, sliding under your opponent's legs, or the running standing switch that would leave you behind your opponent, that's what I'm talking about. Those animations should be brought back, updated, be customizable and assigned its own button (R2 when on offense) instead of taking up move slots. For example, if I'm playing as Tozawa and I run at my alert opponent, I'm anticipating a reversal but if I time it right I can press R2 for an offensive counter that would see Tozawa slide under the opponent's legs in position to hit a snap german suplex on a now flustered opponent. I should be able to choose from different moves like combat rolls, ducking, back rolls, pushes, leapfrogs, psych outs, etc.

"Grapples" and Set ups

I mentioned Zayn's corner exploder and the rebound lariat earlier, but there are so many other moves like this with these unnatural setups that just suck. Finn Balor's shotgun dropkick looks stupid the way he gently pulls the opponent out of the corner to then walk to the opposite corner to do the move. What if that move was a corner vs grounded opponent move instead, as well as the curb stomp? Would make tons more sense. The lawn dart should be done from the Oklahoma Slam carry position. The middle rope dive corner grapples should just be actual middle rope dives. A lot of the rope grapples should be initiated from wherever the current animation artificially places the opponent, example being most of the irish whip moves like the handspring cutter. The O-Connor Roll German Suplex should work the same way the Old School or Eddie Guerrero's top rope arm breaker or Orton's spike DDT works, from a standing grapple position.
The strong strike grapple moves are unnecessary often times too. The big boy sentons, standing shooting star press, the running elbows and knee drops should all just be running ground strikes because there are not enough of those. The lionsault should just be a regular springboard, as well as the Cesaro springboard uppercut. The corner springboard enzuigiri should just be a running corner springboard because, again, we do not have enough of those either (the Metalik dropkick and the new Whisper in the Wind were appreciated additions to this sections). I can't think of all of them but I think you get the point.

New CAMoveset move positions and Death to OMG Moments

OMG Moments gotta die. Most of the OMG Moments we have should not be considered OMG Moments. The dives, the swing, the drive-by dropkick should not be OMG moments when these things are commonly done. The only true OMG moments are the environmental things like the ring break, the outside superplex, the spear through the chamber pod (would be cooler if done organically through physics so that only people with a spear in their moveset can do it or if done via carry), the car finishers, the barricade break, and announce table finishers. Everything else should be done by use of different gameplay mechanics. Why the hell does the powerbomb into a boston crab need two entire finishers to pull off? It's so annoying especially because the AI always goes for that instead of their actual finisher.
OMG moments are cutscenes, just like those moves I mentioned earlier. I don't like cutscenes in the middle of a match, it takes me out of the experience, I feel like I'm not doing anything. That's why I was so happy when I saw what hot tags are in 2K18 because they easily could have made it another quicktime event. These "OMG Moments" should be done manually. Make it so that running doesn't take much stamina but the actual moves do. I want to run the ropes and do those dives freely by myself.
There should be new move positions to accommodate us performing these "OMG Moments" manually. Leaning against the apron (to manually run and do the drive-by dropkick, should be capable in leaning against middle rope section as well if I am outside the ring), running towards ring post (for the torpedo DDT and Bayley's dropkick, should work like how running springboards work where if the opponent is close enough, they'll be caught with the move), there should be an expansion of apron gameplay where two people fighting on the apron is almost similar to how fighting in the crowd works except if someone is groggy they are susceptible to different apron grapples or brutal running moves (think Gargano vs Almas at Takeover: Philly).
There should be an "on both knees" position (Natural Selection, Yes Kicks, Miz DDT), a "bent over" position (flip neckbreaker, scissors kick, sunset flip, running canadian destroyer, diving canadian destroyer), an "on all fours" position (Ospreay's tornado kick, various strikes, various deadlifts, various pin holds, Curb stomp, punt kick), and there should be new customizable carry positions like Spinebuster (can be used to place opponent on top rope), Suplex (can be used to place on top rope with legs outside the ring), Bearhug, Military Press, Sidewalk slam, and chokeslam, as well as behind carry positions like the Torture Rack, Electric chair, German Suplex, and Back Suplex (can be used to place opponent on top rope facing away). There should be a rope straddle position that is caused by falling off the top turnbuckle or top rope, missing a big boot, or being placed by back suplex carry. From there, someone is vulnerable to various running strikes, diving attacks and a selection of grapples. I said it before but more position-to-position moves. RAW 2 had a lot of these.

Everything else is somewhat miscellaneous.
-I don't know why they haven't figured out the manual rollout system yet. They should bring back the limited roll outs and a high damage/low stamina roll out should not allow me to rollout onto my feet. The multi-man rollout animation works fine for this. Use it.
-The carry system should allow for manual tag moves like the doomsday device and whatnot.
-An adrenaline meter that makes one impervious to damage and low stamina for a VERY short period of time when it's activated so late match moments can be even more exciting.
-More customizable animations like how we can pick people up or how we run, etc.
-Diving moonsault to a standing opponent.
-"Squash", "mid-card", and "Main event" setting for matches. The undercard should not be filled with false finishes. Also cut down on the AI kicking out of finishers.
That's all I got. Yes I know I probably take this way too seriously but dammit I love wrestling and love video games and want a great wrestling video game. If you actually read it all I would love feedback, if not, that's okay but post your ideas. Maybe Timschel is still lurking around and might lob some of our ideas to the devs.

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I forgot to add this in the feedback but the match cards should represent more real life you shouldn't have made eventers on the beginning of the card and jobbers at the main event on a card

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-- double the amount of strong strikes slots

 

-- Seated Against ropes position (ala Brie Mode running knee strike)

 

-- Ground near Ropes position (for stomps where u are holding the rope, Balors stomp, Jinders Knee Drops, Decapitator etc)

 

-- On all fours position (ala No Mercy 64)

 

-- Kneeling down on both knees position (ala Yes Kicks)

 

-- Environmental Running Dives (run towards steps from an angle for Kofi's Axe Handle or Romans Running Diving Superman Punch off the ringside steps. Run towards Barricade to do Jeff Hardys Running Diving Clothesline off Barricade...or maybe Springboard off Barricade and do a Moonsault like Sami Zayn of the barricade)

 

-- more Running Attack slots (we need 4 ala No Mercy 64)

 

-- have reversals tied to the moves in our movesets (i think No Mercy 64 did this?) Instead of us doing some random move that no wrestler would ever attempt. Let the reversal feed into a back suplex thats in our moveset.

 

-- Let us edit as many reversals as possible. Waistlock reversals (ala Fire pro allows this). Top Rope reversals (also in Fire Pro)

 

-- get rid of all the ridiculous reversal animations that a wrestler would never do. There are far too many, "we tried this in mocap...and it looked cool even tho its not practical nor has it ever been used in an actual match" kinda reversals in this game.

 

-- accurate movesets. For the love of all that is holy, have someone check every moveset and remove the glaringly incorrect stuff.

 

-- Dive Off the Announce Table (ala No Mercy 64)

 

-- moves from one announce table to the other (ala Romans Reigns spear off announce table thru another table)

 

-- Chair scaffold/bridge/saw horse or whatever u call it. When a wrestlers puts 2 chairs together facing each other. And then does a suplex or powerbomb type manuever thru the chairs (ala Ambroses Suplex Bomb onto Aj Styles thru chairs)

 

-- I would like to be able to edit the pin animations (ala Fire Pro). Different people do different pins.

 

-- Like we have a Pin Option on grapples, i would want a Taunt Option (for moves that have character specific taunt like animations. so instead of them editing out the taunt animation of Sami Zayns tilt-a-whirl backbreaker like they did a year or so ago, and making it look generic and just like the other one already in the game. We could do it normal or u hold a taunt button and it activates the little Sami Zayn arm pumping animation that it had at the end of it). Same for like a JBL powerbomb. If u liked the powerbomb but wanted to give it to a character that the "putting cigar out on back" motion wouldn't fit with...then u don't hold the taunt button while doing the JBL powerbomb.

 

-- Deselect Pin Options for certain moves in Edit a Moveset. To stop the A.I from using pin options on every move. (ie; I always give Roman Reigns the Powerbomb with the Jacknife pin option, because it looks most like his powerbomb. But Reigns would never do a jacknife pin after a powerbomb. Which is fine when im playing as him. But whenever the CPU is Reigns, they always attempt the jacknife pin and it breaks character and the immersion. Being able to toggle off pin options for specific moves in a moveset would prevent the CPU from doing that.

 

-- Randomly Rolled A.I selling. Where in the selling animation has different options. Like say a 90% chance of a regular flat back bump when u do a running clothesline. a 7% chance the opponent gets turned inside out when u land the running clothesline. And a much more rare 3% chance that the opponent backflips. So the same clothesline could result in ur opponent selling in 3 completely different ways. And maybe a damage modifier. Like if ur lucky enough to get the rare backflip animation ur opponent is stunned more or damaged more by it.

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I need for the controls to be more responsive. There have been too many times where I have hit a crucial reversal and was not able to capitalize because the game took too long to register my button input so my opponent retook control and I basically wasted a reversal. Part of being good is being able to capitalize on opportunities as they arrive.

 

The ability to step off someone who is on all fours like in HCTP to do the manual Poetry in Motion.

 

As a general statement, the gameplay needs to be as deep and as varied as possible to build popularity and to add to fun. How many times do you mark out playing these games? I imagine not often, everything is so controlled and predictable. Look at Youtube communities for games like NBA 2K or UFC or even for Call of Duty and other competitive games. Theres enough unpredictability in those games that there are countless community-contributed Top 10 Kills/Knockouts/Dunks/Plays videos on Youtube and that type of stuff attracts new players which ends up boosting sales. You cant necessarily do that with WWE games which is a shame because there is much about wrestling that could contribute to an online community if the game emulated it well enough. The Youtube community the games has now is full of just funny glitches and things like that, things that dont necessarily highlight the positives of the game. Yeah there are videos of extreme moments or whatnot but the big difference between that and the games I mentioned before is that those games are full of things that have a very small chance of ever being done again which is why theyre so special whereas I can watch a WWE 2K18 extreme moments video and easily decide to recreate everything I see if I wanted provided nothing was done by hack or glitch. Every gameplay mechanic I have proposed creates a game experience where truly almost anything can happen and big moments come naturally and are special because they are hard to ever recreate.

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I agree completely with you on the submission system regarding multiple stages. I love the submission mini-game and don't want to see it go, but adding 2 or even 3 stages would allow for submission specialists to actually mean something and hone their craft, while simultaneously giving players who struggle with submissions more time to escape rather than having one slapped one early and immediately giving up.

 

I will add a bunch of ideas and stuff of my own eventually (happy to see my Bracing idea getting traction by the way) in the future.

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The ability to step off someone who is on all fours like in HCTP to do the manual Poetry in Motion.

 

Ability to unfold the chair like WWF: JBI & RAW 2 then be able to do moves on them (like Aleister Black vs Adam cole, RKO to the chair) and as leverage like the poetry in motion, I remember chairs in Raw 2 can be used as leverage when we run on it and press as specific button.

 

Also ability to drag wrestlers to the unfolded chair and we could make the groggy wrestler seat on the chair and do moves on them. We could use the right analog on how the wrestler is to be positioned.

For example while dragging to the chair:

Move up on the right analog: Downed opponent will be set up to sit on the chair.

Move down on the right analog: Face down on the chair (can be used as a set up for a curb stomp, etc. on the chair)

Move left on the right analog: Left or right arm on the chair.

Move right on the analog: Left or right leg on the chair.

 

Same as ladders. I wish we could sandwich wrestlers between the ladder. I hate the fact that they removed the UCM on ladders. I hope they bring it back and improve it.

 

BTW was watching UFC 3 videos in YT and just noticed something. If EA can put championship belts on renders why can't 2K.

 

jNA1dZK.jpg

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I need for the controls to be more responsive. There have been too many times where I have hit a crucial reversal and was not able to capitalize because the game took too long to register my button input so my opponent retook control and I basically wasted a reversal. Part of being good is being able to capitalize on opportunities as they arrive.

 

 

I am amazed sometimes at how laggy the game is, graphically and control-wise.

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Okay I hope I shut up eventually but watching Raw reminded me of some things.

 

-Position feeding should happen more often but the speed of the animations should depend on stamina and damage. I'm not a big fan of these near death animations in the beginning of a match. Also the AI should refrain from attacking during these animations more often, they should taunt or something during this time. Charged finishers should trigger these animations as well dependent on the finisher. For example, if I do a charged finisher with Zayn, my opponent should crawl and pull himself up to the corner in position for the Helluva Kick.

 

-Manual targeting is so close to being okay. I know I'm not the only one that hates shuffling through targets in multi-man matches, especially when the guy I want to target is literally right next to me. I was thinking maybe we have an aiming system where we push down the stick like normal but then we move it in the direction of the person we want to target. If not, I would be okay with a quick and alert Smart targeting system as long as it works and is responsive.

 

-Breaking the referee's 10 count with L1+R1 instead of having to go completely in the ring and then back out, just a nice touch for things to flow better. This doesn't have to replace the ladder bridge control, but we should only be able to do a ladder bridge with the available ladders and we should be able to freely set a ladder bridge between different elevated surfaces (apron to announce table, 2nd ladder to ropes or turnbuckles, between two other ladders) so it shouldn't be bound to just those two spots around the ring. Ladder bridges should work like any other ladder function. But yeah...count-out break animation.

 

-But speaking of ladders, I was just reminded of all the things we could do with them in SvR 2011 that we inexplicably can no longer do now. Springboarding on to a ladder, running up a ladder ramp outside the ring and then hopping onto a ladder in the ring, wedging a ladder in the corner, pushing a ladder over and the person on it straddling the top rope, I need all of that back. I also want more ways to knock people off a ladder or to push the ladder over and watch the physics just wreck people. The ladder match overhaul in 2K17 was okay but it got bland very quickly with the same animations over and over.

 

-Double KO counts when two people attempt a running move at the EXACT same time. Emphasis on "exact" so it doesn't happen too often. More frequent in tag matches and singles matches with "Main Event" setting.

 

-Moves like mud hole stomps and grounded punches and Yes Kicks should work like the corner 10-count moves in the game and should be subject to a referee 5-count if continued for too long. Also, the 10-count moves shouldn't stop at 10, they should be almost unlimited until a reversal, ref stoppage, stamina drain, or manual release by holding square.

 

-The arm drags should be reanimated and the weight-appropriate receiver should roll back on to his feet if it's early in the match and his stamina is up but later when stamina is low/damage high, they should roll into a groggy state or onto a knee depending on the arm drag chosen in CAMoveset. We should be able to choose rest holds for each limb. There should also be rebound rest holds (think headlock takeover into headlock hold, things like that).

 

Strike tracking

 

 

-This probably would never happen but it would be cool if there was a sort of tracking system for certain strikes so that with a physics system, the strike aims for whatever target it's supposed to hit no matter what. So like Superkick 1-8 is supposed to hit the opponent's head no matter what, it may not always land on the head but that's always the intention. With that in mind, imagine being outside the ring and your opponent is attempting a suicide dive but then you had the timing and skill to organically kill him with a superkick right to his head before he hits the ground (think of Bate vs Dunne at Takeover when Dunne caught Bate with the elbow as he was coming down from that tope). This way mid-air reversals are more satisfying and out of nowhere. Currently, with the way you get the automatic double axe handle attempt before the opponent pops up and hits whatever move, you know what's happening before it happens and it's less exciting. Imagine how fun it'd be playing your buddy and he thinks he's actually about to land that moonsault until you pop up and clock him with a superkick to his upside down face. That's something that would go on Youtube. The automatic double axe handle and crossbody are okay for certain moves like actual grapples/submissions and carry catches.

 

 

 

-Tag matches aren't really as fun. The hot tags help but they could use some work. I think hot tags should be an assigned skill so not everybody has it, especially not heels. Official tag teams should have certain team skills assigned. I touched on manual, makeshift tag moves with the carry system earlier. Imagine carrying your partner and slamming him onto the opponent. Imagine slamming your opponent onto his own partner. Imagine carrying an opponent in Electric Chair position and your tag partner suicide dives him off your shoulders.

 

Cool weight detection idea

 

 

-I hope this is my last idea but it probably won't be. I touched on weight detection before and how there used to be a mini-game for lifting heavier opponents. Instead of button-mashing, what if there was a mini-game just like the pin system where you have to hit a zone only with this you may have to hit the zone three times to be able to lift the opponent, depending on strength attribute, weight of opponent and stamina. So say I'm Cesaro and I want to German Suplex Braun, I would initiate the move like normal but then a struggle animation would occur and then the mini-game pops up. Cesaro is strong as shit and this is a basic enough move so it would only take hitting the zone once to lift Braun up and over. Now for a scoop slam, it might take two zones for Cesaro and three zones for Apollo Crews. A move like a military press just won't be possible. How much stamina it drains depends on your strength attribute. Moves in CAMoveset should have some kinda indicator to tell players how much strength is needed to even think about trying that move if they're two weight classes up and if you don't meet the requirement, you will automatically fail. If you do meet the requirement, the higher above the line your strength attribute is, the "easier" time you'll have lifting.

 

 

-Just tons more flying moves and ways to do them so we can have true cruiserweight style matches. Triangle planchas and double springboards and some Sasuke specials, more apron dives, barricade jumps, things like that.

 

I think I'm all out though I bet I'll dream up some more shit. The stuff in the spoiler tags really isn't long I just wanted to shorten the overall size of my post.

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A new cool career mode , if they're only gonna change the gameplay engine it won't do nothing, gameplay engine is great as it is....

That is a dangerous line of thinking that encourages stagnation.

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MyCAREER needs to improve, and I want more moves.

 

Would also be nice if we could get different variations of a move without having to use up different slots. Sweet Chin Music should have theatrics if done from corner or be like a superkick if done face-to-face. Or, Superman Punch should be a move from corner AND a running strike. Makes no sense to have it one or the other.

 

Why isn't Omega Driver a table finisher?

 

Kinda weird for Red Arrow to not hurt the person doing it if he misses.

 

Annoying that my heavyweight with maxed out strength can't lift a super heavyweight.

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Can we have a little bit of a ragdoll element, please? Perhaps to the OMG Moments, just to make them less 'cut-scene' like?

 

https://youtu.be/MwQglnEsm9o?t=13s

I don't mean to slight you but I used to be obsessed with these videos and I can say with full confidence that there are much better examples than this one. But this animation program, Endorphin, runs on the Euphoria engine which is basically a smart ragdoll system where bodies naturally try to correct themselves when any force is acted on them in any circumstance like you or I would in real life. Rockstar used it for GTA 4 and 5, Red Dead Redemption (probably the best looking implementation of it) and Max Payne 3. The possibilities of it are endless and could potentially cut dev time and costs down (mocappers could perform a lot of moves on mannequins) and give more time for bug testing and whatnot. They would figure out the correct algorithms and things like that to make sure bodies ALWAYS try to correct themselves and bump how they're supposed to in real life (head tucked, arms out, feet flat) from any move and any circumstance so we'd get varied bumps but they'd be realistic bumps, not flappy and crazy like a regular ragdoll. And there's a blending system in it where bodies don't have to stay the way they landed, they can smoothly transition back into a canned animation or pose which would be good for pinfall attempts and position feeding animations and whatever else. ALSO, I used to mess around with Endorphin a lot and so I know Euphoria also takes the weight of bodies and objects into account with every situation. In the program there's a base mannequin, a muscular one, and a fat one and each model reacts differently to the same forces. Euphoria is really great and should be a no-brainer for wrestling games. Unreal Engine 4 also has a decent looking physics, it has potential to be something great.

 

The Havok engine was supposed to give us good weapon physics but the devs nerfed the absolute hell out of it from the moment they started using it. Tables do have the capability of breaking realistically depending on point of force with Havok but for some reason the devs took a one-size-fits all approach.

A new cool career mode , if they're only gonna change the gameplay engine it won't do nothing, gameplay engine is great as it is....

This reply is annoying for a couple reasons. 1. In my OP I specifically said please refrain from talking about Career mode in this thread because it gets enough attention from fans as it is and here you are. 2. I personally haven't touched MyCareer since 2K15 but I wouldn't come into a topic specifically about MyCareer to say "they shouldn't improve MyCareer, it wouldn't do anything, we a need a new Showcase mode". Something being "great" doesn't mean it can't be improved, especially when we're talking about the core of the game, the thing that's supposed to keep people coming back, the thing that makes people say No Mercy is STILL the best wrestling game to date, the thing that's there when you strip everything else away...the actual in-ring gameplay and as someone who is crazy about wrestling, I don't think it's great just yet which is why I made this topic. I want us to propose ways to improve it where it needs to be improved.

 

 

 

Would also be nice if we could get different variations of a move without having to use up different slots. Sweet Chin Music should have theatrics if done from corner or be like a superkick if done face-to-face. Or, Superman Punch should be a move from corner AND a running strike. Makes no sense to have it one or the other.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

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I want them add heel moves back in expect the push the ref I want the ref to pull guys from corner break stuff up

I knew I was forgetting stuff. Hell yeah I want that back too. Any little thing that differentiates characters is welcomed.

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

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Please find a way to import caws from previous games. I know it's hard, but man I'm tired of remaking my CAWs every year

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

 

 

Introduce a mechanic where Heel aligned characters can talk to the ref and be like "Hey go get that fan who jumped the barrier". Or have a button combination that brings out a rival wrestler of your opponent that distracts the opponent / ref

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

 

Not sure if it is still in, but in some previous game you would actually get dqed if you did too many "unfair" moves in a normal match

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

With every year that passes, i'm thankful we have retained blood and chairshots to the head! I honestly think they're on borrowed time.

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Definite work on the "free" falling attack moves, elbow drops still feel too slow for example, the falling wrestler doesn't fall at the correct speed.

 

Also - make the Rumble HUD independent of the "hide control prompts" option in the main menu. It's so annoying that if you have the "control help" set to off - that all of the elimination prompts automatically are off (didn't happen in previous games)

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More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

 

Depends, though the heel can find a way to distract the ref or knock him out. Sometimes for the lulz I knock out a ref and then use a chair on the opponent to get the opponent to bleed. There's no consequences for hitting the ref few times as well, which is kinda weird, but oh well.

 

 

More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic.

With every year that passes, i'm thankful we have retained blood and chairshots to the head! I honestly think they're on borrowed time.

 

I don't think they'll ever remove that since it can be turned off and on. I'm thankful they have it as well, but the old blood system was much better.

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I've turned blood off because it's far too common in the game. Every match ends up a bloodbath. I'd rather have none than far too much too often.

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Not sure if mentioned but I really want to see the models holding their Championship or briefcase in the match loading screen and selection screen.

 

Also, the ability to do a quick half roll into the ring and back out to stop the refs count out count would be nice.

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