JGPLX. Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Crowley, which other wrestlers do you consider to be 'Vince guys'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil' Kazu Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'd say Cena, Lesnar, Kane, Sheamus, AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey D. Jiggy Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Chris Jericho also gets along very well with Vince McMahon. He's a Vince guy, not a Triple H guy. If you've heard Jericho's shoot interviews or read his books, then you know he used to have a lot of issues with Triple H. Supposedly they get along fine now, but I could see them butting heads when it comes to something like this. Jericho having issues with HHH makes a lot of sense, when you think about it. Crowley ships Kenny and Ibushi so goddamn hard lmao Who doesn't, really? Those who oppose true love tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'd say Cena, Lesnar, Kane, Sheamus, AJ. Sheamus is a Triple H guy through and through - they were workout buddies which lead to his push to some extent. Also AJ wouldn't even be in WWE if it weren't for Triple H. Vince didn't have any idea how good AJ was until after he got there. You can tell that by the booking initially, he was there putting Jericho over. Also I think Triple H is much better at putting personal issues aside than he gets credit for, he's a pure wrestling man as well as a business man. Vince is not really a traditional "wrestling man", he's an entrepreneur and promoter - and corporate businessman. Triple H is a much more "old school wrestling" mind. We've seen both put personal animosity aside for the business, but I think Triple H would definitely be more open to working with other promotions - Vince I think is reluctant to give them anything - especially these days (although of course he helped ECW back in the day) I could definitely see Triple H being more open to new avenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango kid Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 You know what'll be hilarious they have a match Kenny pokes Jericho goes down one two three Jericho joins bullet Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil' Kazu Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'd say Cena, Lesnar, Kane, Sheamus, AJ. Sheamus is a Triple H guy through and through - they were workout buddies which lead to his push to some extent. Also AJ wouldn't even be in WWE if it weren't for Triple H. Vince didn't have any idea how good AJ was until after he got there. You can tell that by the booking initially, he was there putting Jericho over. I think Sheamus is buddies with Vince too, though. Him being Irish might help. And I have no doubt AJ and Vince have a good relationship. Don't know if AJ and HHH have a relationship at all, though. And I don't even know if that thing about AJ not even being in WWE without Triple H is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Fairly sure that guys like Styles, Balor, Joe, Shinsuke, Owens and Sami owe being in WWE to Triple H taking them for NXT because they didn't fit the preferred template for Main Roster talent. So yeah, I'd back my statement that AJ wouldn't likely be in WWE - certainly nowhere near as highly as he is featured were it not for Triple H starting to take on the guys who traditionally weren't what WWE looked at. Hell even AJ himself said that Vince wanted him to portray a character - "a bulldog, fight from underneath guy". Which suggests he had little knowledge of AJ prior to that. Otherwise he wouldn't have said that he'd have said "be the Phenomenal One". You can actually see the evolution of Vince's opinion of AJ through 2016 - 17 - Rumble, was used to pop the crowd and have a nice little 20 minutes. - Initially programmed with Miz, and then Jericho - Put Jericho over at Mania (it was here I think he won Vince's trust) - Put with, and then split from Anderson and Gallows. - Won WWE Championship, but put Cena over on his comeback to the company - Was stupidly booked to lose the title at the Rumble (see above) to Cena, who was losing it to Wyatt the following month anyway (why could AJ not simply have dropped it at EC?) - Was given the trusted position of making Shane look good at Mania (and they stole the show - mission accomplished) Now has the WWE Championship back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil' Kazu Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Not what I meant. I obviously don't think Vince was checking out WK and said he wanted AJ, there's just more people in WWE to scout talent, it's not just Vince or HHH. Regal might've had the idea to bring AJ, for example, who knows? I just don't like this narrative that every good thing is automatically HHH and every shitty thing is automatically Vince. Or Dunn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowley Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Crowley, which other wrestlers do you consider to be 'Vince guys'? Definitely Austin, Undertaker, Lesnar, Cena, RVD, and Punk. Daniel Bryan, Brian Kendrick, and The New Day could also be examples. I just don't like this narrative that every good thing is automatically HHH and every shitty thing is automatically Vince. Or Dunn. I honestly think a lot of that mentality just comes from kayfabe. In storyline, Triple H is supposed to be more in touch with the fans, and as he takes the reins from Vince in real life, the behind the scenes documentaries they put on the Network are obviously going to be a bit biased in Triple H's favor. It's more fun to believe that every good thing is Triple H because that's the narrative on the show. It's a lot more interesting. But in real life it's not so cut and dry. They've both done some good things and some bad things. An example of something that I often see misattributed to Vince is the Roman Reigns push. I think Vince loves Roman, but the whole push is very much a Triple H creation. There was a time when Vince was trying to convince Triple H to push Big E instead. We've seen both put personal animosity aside for the business, but I think Triple H would definitely be more open to working with other promotions - Vince I think is reluctant to give them anything - especially these days (although of course he helped ECW back in the day) I could definitely see Triple H being more open to new avenues. I think Triple H is a lot more knowledgeable about pro wrestling and his vision for WWE involves developmental territories around the world with a little more variety in styles. But I think he's just as reluctant as Vince to give back to other promotions. Maybe even more reluctant than Vince. This WK thing could be an example of what I'm talking about. Triple H is more wary of other promotions. He wants to be more involved with them than Vince, but he wants to be in control. Vince doesn't care that they exist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 My point with Triple H is that he's more receptive to bringing in ideas and gimmicks (for want of a better word) from other federations and pushing them with little tweaking. The way he brought in Balor and Owens in particular (and later Shinsuke) was to allow them to for the most part be an evolution of what they already were, albeit a little more "WWE friendly". With Vince (and I cite him principally, but it's the "main roster creative") very rarely do they bring concepts from other promotions - I think the Club is the closest I've ever seen this happen - but then there does seem to be a process of "destroy that, water that down - and then if we see fit, re-mould them in our image, with our gimmick" There is an all pervading sense of "you're nothing until you do something here" - and if you are something outside WWE and they don't like it, then they'll devalue it (We're seeing that with the Club - from dominant tag team, cool heels - to jobbers that say "NEEEEERRRRRDDDDSSSS". And purposefully or not they're doing it with Nakamura and also chipping off the aura of Asuka. Hell they even took the most over person in THEIR OWN company developmental, and made her a simpering moron who fans actually booed. I think aside from that, you have to give Vince a hell of a lot of credit - of course you do, he's created one of the biggest entertainment monopolies in the world - and basically IS Pro Wrestling. But at the same time, I don't think it's unfair to question some of his decisions either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil' Kazu Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I just don't like this narrative that every good thing is automatically HHH and every shitty thing is automatically Vince. Or Dunn. I honestly think a lot of that mentality just comes from kayfabe. In storyline, Triple H is supposed to be more in touch with the fans, and as he takes the reins from Vince in real life, the behind the scenes documentaries they put on the Network are obviously going to be a bit biased in Triple H's favor. Yep, I mean, they already called him the architect of the Attitude Era so that should tell you all you need to know. My point with Triple H is that he's more receptive to bringing in ideas and gimmicks (for want of a better word) from other federations and pushing them with little tweaking. The way he brought in Balor and Owens in particular (and later Shinsuke) was to allow them to for the most part be an evolution of what they already were, albeit a little more "WWE friendly". Again, Shinsuke's case is like AJ's. Vince was there when he signed the contract just as Triple H was. Why does all the credit for sigining him go to HHH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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