Enough is enough, it's time to take stand

[Lil' Kazu]

 

I don't know about the situation with Havok but what Jay Briscoe said was much worse than anything on that video in the OP.

 

How? He tweeted about how he disagreed with gay marriage and would shoot people who taught his kids that it was okay. He also tweeted the word *censored* once on a different occasion. AJ Styles has said the same word on many occasions, live at shows. It's the same thing. If anything, Styles is more guilty in my opinion because he said it in front of kids, and at least with Jay you can make the argument that its kind of fitting that the character he portrays would say that.

 

Right, if you really think saying '... try and teach my kids that there's nothing wrong with [same sex marriage] and I'll *censored*ing shoot you' and what AJ said is the same thing then my time in this discussion is over.

 

Oh, and btw, I'm not condoning anything AJ Styles said or did so no one try to throw that at me.

 

PS: I'm surprised you bring this topic up and don't even mention Warrior, the things he said and how he's portrayed by WWE nowadays. That would be something where I could see a valid case.

[AONO.]

So... you want to eliminate a cultural problem by lashing out on AJ Styles? Or Daniel Bryan, one of the most belowed guy by his coworkers all over the world and by his peers? Even AJ Styles, a christian family guy who is know as that and beinga hard worker all his life, and exactly just that.

First of all, that by itself sounds completely wrong, because I'm sure you can say many positve things about them that would outnumber the bad. In fact, it could even backfire completely. Second of all, that would literally solve nothing and I'm not sure it would even give someone a good example. Third of all, as I said, it's a cultural problem, that's rooted very deep, it can be tied to upringing, language, class... hell I could write a whole page of possible reasons, so it seems actually very dangerious to go on another manhunt when energy could be divert to MUCH MORE productive things. In their whole program you could find numerous examples of all kinds of bigotry, sexisms, racism, xenophobia... Yet them too don't have any special ideology, other than being conservative, and making MONEY.

I'm legit stilly trying to figure out if this whole topic is kind of a joke or not. And yes, homophobia is still a thing all around the world, and there are many people who are not homophobic, but also looks at people as "weird", because it's not just hate involved and "non tolerance", true acceptance takes a long time, it's subtle.

I think that a person who is whatever on whatever side of sexual spectrum should have all the human and legal rights as any other fellow person on Earth. And besides, sexual identity is just one part out of our identity, and a person in my opinion shouldn't be defined defined just by it. And that's a whole another huge issue, so I digress. But in that light, condeming AJ Styles would also be wrong, because he is very much entitled to his opinion aabout gay marriage. He doesn't support it, I disagree with him. Does that mean that his whole familly should finanncaly suffer because of it? Hell freaking no.

[Monkey D. Jiggy]

Looking at the first few words of the topic title, I thought this was going to be about Owen Hart.

 

I don't know if Steph promised LGBT-characters, but I don't know why we would want that. Gimmick-wise, like what would it add. Sexuality is most irrelevant in WWE.

 

As for protesting against discrimation and bullying, especially the latter is just a vague concept. None of it seems based on a concrete, noticeable chain of events in the WWE. The OP just feels oddly worded. Like it's more informing this forum that you're protesting and that we can protest too, but I'm convinced why I should protest and I don't see anything the WWE has done that warrants something that should invoke outrage. I feel like this isn't the only place you've posted this, so maybe it's more aligned with the vibe on a different place and you can read the context behind it better, but over here, it just feels like it comes out of left-field, like I've been dropped into it half-way without a proper introduction and build-up to the overall message and goal this post is looking for.

 

 

Other than that, I'm not really interested. Wrestling by default comes from a world where a lot of people are definitely not as modern as you'd think. Styles is a redneck Christian from Georgia, who, by his own words, puts God first and family second. Yeah, he says *censored* all the time, I'll bet. Kevin Owens is from Saint-Jean. I wasn't surprised when I found out he said the N-word in a promo. Kassius Ohno is from a mountain town in Ohio. At this point I'm just happy he has nothing leaked. Is it even viable to eliminate it all? I'm not really interested to go after the guys for shit they say in casual, private convo's. What Havok said, was on a different level. And I still don't like Aliyah.

 

Other than that, I don't see any noticeable discrimination in the WWE and in their product, so I don't see what's there to protest.

 

 

Also, on a sidenote, Hulk Hogan has been punished enough.

[Lil' Kazu]

So... you want to eliminate a cultural problem by lashing out on AJ Styles? Or Daniel Bryan, one of the most belowed guy by his coworkers all over the world and by his peers? Even AJ Styles, a christian family guy who is know as that and beinga hard worker all his life, and exactly just that.

First of all, that by itself sounds completely wrong, because I'm sure you can say many positve things about them that would outnumber the bad. In fact, it could even backfire completely. Second of all, that would literally solve nothing and I'm not sure it would even give someone a good example. Third of all, as I said, it's a cultural problem, that's rooted very deep, it can be tied to upringing, language, class... hell I could write a whole page of possible reasons, so it seems actually very dangerious to go on another manhunt when energy could be divert to MUCH MORE productive things. In their whole program you could find numerous examples of all kinds of bigotry, sexisms, racism, xenophobia... Yet them too don't have any special ideology, other than being conservative, and making MONEY.

 

Not the best thing to bring up when discussing homophobia, buddy.

 

I don't know if Steph promised LGBT-characters, but I don't know why we would want that. Gimmick-wise, like what would it add. Sexuality is most irrelevant in WWE.

 

Oh god, I forgot the OP said that. Can you imagine WWE handling a LGBT character? Not that I would want that either. I hate the mentality that we need to have x amount of minorities in everything so we're not racist/sexist/homophobic. It's bad enough that they do that black guy on every announce team thing.

 

BUT... we might not have to wait long until we get that... isn't Sister Abigail coming? inb4 'that's offensive'

[AONO.]

Oh and I just actually watched the video.. "Indy darlings"... Yet Cena made a joke about "Brokeback mountain" on live TV, while cutting a probably watched by millions promo, when he was talking to The Rock. And I'm sure Rock too has cutten many promos in which you could fine example of those things... A lot of promos actually by a lot people. But Jericho with his friends said someone looks like a "*Censored*", in a non public video like... 20 years ago preasumably. And a lot can happen in those 20 years to a guy that doesn't seem so conservative.

Hell, that part with Jim Cornette... I didn't need to see that to think he doesn't really seem like a really good man, or that is very progressive in his thinking.

 

EDIT: Well, maybe MRN... I know. But I was brought up as a "christian"... moderatly or lightly. I've done the formal stuff, but later did not practice it at all. And I don't consider myself one. So I also don't really care for opinions which are popular in some internet communities were people just lash on christians "because they believe in something taht doesn't exist, lol". I differentiate religion and faith. And it would help a lot if people would look at things from other perspectives also.

[Lil' Kazu]

I'm not bashing christianity at all, believe what you want. It just has a reputation for a lack of tolerance towards homosexuality but granted I was thinking about the catholic church instead of christianity as a whole when I made that post.

[AONO.]

Yeah, yeah I know. Just wanted to clear up things.

[Scott Eastwood]

 

So... you want to eliminate a cultural problem by lashing out on AJ Styles? Or Daniel Bryan, one of the most belowed guy by his coworkers all over the world and by his peers? Even AJ Styles, a christian family guy who is know as that and beinga hard worker all his life, and exactly just that.

First of all, that by itself sounds completely wrong, because I'm sure you can say many positve things about them that would outnumber the bad. In fact, it could even backfire completely. Second of all, that would literally solve nothing and I'm not sure it would even give someone a good example. Third of all, as I said, it's a cultural problem, that's rooted very deep, it can be tied to upringing, language, class... hell I could write a whole page of possible reasons, so it seems actually very dangerious to go on another manhunt when energy could be divert to MUCH MORE productive things. In their whole program you could find numerous examples of all kinds of bigotry, sexisms, racism, xenophobia... Yet them too don't have any special ideology, other than being conservative, and making MONEY.

 

Not the best thing to bring up when discussing homophobia, buddy.

 

I don't know if Steph promised LGBT-characters, but I don't know why we would want that. Gimmick-wise, like what would it add. Sexuality is most irrelevant in WWE.

 

Oh god, I forgot the OP said that. Can you imagine WWE handling a LGBT character? Not that I would want that either. I hate the mentality that we need to have x amount of minorities in everything so we're not racist/sexist/homophobic. It's bad enough that they do that black guy on every announce team thing.

 

BUT... we might not have to wait long until we get that... isn't Sister Abigail coming? inb4 'that's offensive'

 

So is the fashion police

 

this is what she said http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/wwe-lgbtq-characters/2/

 

and honestly I have yet to really be offend by anything WWE has done or the wrestlers. And I'm Gay, and have been very open about that in the past

[Creepia]

Velveteen Dream is pretty sexually ambiguous. I'd say he's a pretty good candidate for the characters Steph promised.

[AONO.]

^^

 

I was just about to mention him. On a side note, really didn't expect Patrick Clark to come up something like that.

[Creepia]

Dream is also very entertaining, increasingly talented and his sexual ambiguity is not "in your face" as it were. They've teased it with Aleister Black, he's very clearly very in-touch with feminine side, but nothing he does screams "I'M GAY."

 

I don't think we'll ever see any LGBT WWE Superstars, not at least for a long time. Best we can do at the moment is someone like VD and that's pretty damn good if you ask me.

[AONO.]

Agreed.

 

IMO in wrestling, there is so much room to creativly explore concepts of masculinity or femininity than rather strictly sexuality. Especially on a platform like WWE.

[Lil' Kazu]

I mean if you want to talk about sexual ambiguity there's a plethora of characters in wrestling and WWE history. When they did that Goldust heel turned that resulted in absolute *Censored* all I was hoping they'd let him become more of the character he was before. At least let him come out with the wig.

[Rubbersoul]

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

[Lil' Kazu]

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

 

Agreed. Look at Omega and Ibushi. There was probably something there. Kenny's bisexual, I think. No need to bring it up, though.

[Muur]

Is this a troll thread? it doesn't seem serious at all.

 

If the performers are doing it as part of the show, that isn't their fault but if AJ was to go on an anti gay tirade on his Twitter next week, he'd get fired.

 

If it was like, 10 years ago then I guess they could be forced to apologise but if they weren't part of the WWE when they did it, WWE have no right to punish them for it. Hogan was under contract when he did what he did. If AJ had said 5 years ago, not in character, that all gays deserve to die - well, that would've come up through a background check and he probably wouldn't have been hired.

[King Tha Row]

 

 

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

Agreed. Look at Omega and Ibushi. There was probably something there. Kenny's bisexual, I think. No need to bring it up, though.

Yeah if your comfortable with yourself. There's no need for you to constantly bring it up. I believe if you have to always bring it up. You must be insecure. Personally I don't agree with the lifestyle choice. I can respect someone being who they are though regardless of what someone thinks.

[Rubbersoul]

 

 

 

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

Agreed. Look at Omega and Ibushi. There was probably something there. Kenny's bisexual, I think. No need to bring it up, though.

Yeah if your comfortable with yourself. There's no need for you to constantly bring it up. I believe if you have to always bring it up. You must be insecure. Personally I don't agree with the lifestyle choice. I can respect someone being who they are though regardless of what someone thinks.

In 2017 where people are accepting a lot more I don't think it needs to be known.

 

Can you imagine if they had a homosexual character and they made him/her over the top. The backlash would be crazy.

[Lil' Kazu]

 

 

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

Agreed. Look at Omega and Ibushi. There was probably something there. Kenny's bisexual, I think. No need to bring it up, though.

Yeah if your comfortable with yourself. There's no need for you to constantly bring it up. I believe if you have to always bring it up. You must be insecure. Personally I don't agree with the lifestyle choice. I can respect someone being who they are though regardless of what someone thinks.

 

Well thankfully it's not your life.

[King Tha Row]

 

 

 

 

Surely to have a homosexual character would just to have someone just not mention it?

 

We're finally at an age where people are starting to accept everyone (as we should) and now people want to make it aware that a character is gay? Surely moving on is not having to tell people about your sexuality?

Agreed. Look at Omega and Ibushi. There was probably something there. Kenny's bisexual, I think. No need to bring it up, though.

Yeah if your comfortable with yourself. There's no need for you to constantly bring it up. I believe if you have to always bring it up. You must be insecure. Personally I don't agree with the lifestyle choice. I can respect someone being who they are though regardless of what someone thinks.

Well thankfully it's not your life.

Yep

[M3J]

if homosexuals are mistreated in WWE because of their sexual orientation or made miserable, action should be taken. Otherwise, if it's all in the past, then whatever, unless they've gotten violent.

[Crowley]

Is this a troll thread? it doesn't seem serious at all.

 

If the performers are doing it as part of the show, that isn't their fault but if AJ was to go on an anti gay tirade on his Twitter next week, he'd get fired.

 

If it was like, 10 years ago then I guess they could be forced to apologise but if they weren't part of the WWE when they did it, WWE have no right to punish them for it. Hogan was under contract when he did what he did. If AJ had said 5 years ago, not in character, that all gays deserve to die - well, that would've come up through a background check and he probably wouldn't have been hired.

lol I wouldn't say it's a troll thread but yes, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. I swear I had good intentions though. There's an important discussion to be had here. You make a good point about the difference between saying something offensive in character vs. behind the scenes. It was actually the recent controversy surrounding Jinder Mahal's promo about Nakamura that inspired me to make this thread. That and the story about Will Osprey and Pete Dunne breaking kayfabe and stopping in the middle of a match just to make a big deal out of something stupid a fan shouted out. In the case of Jinder Mahal's promo, I couldn't help but laugh at some of the media attention it got because people were actually virtue signaling about this fictional bad guy when WWE has been guilty of actual, real life racism in the past. As a fan it's also disappointing because I hate seeing heels censored and castrated. I don't think you can build up proper babyfaces without bad guys that people actually dislike.

 

 

 

Yeah, thats how Im looking at it. Dont like this era of social media manhunts where people dig up history and try to ruin peoples livelihoods. Where a simple misunderstanding from many years prior (which it has been in some cases) completely ruins a reputation.

Unfortunately this is something that goes on. I still think it's unfair what happened to Jessicka Havok. If petty fans decide they don't like someone, all they have to do is start a social media witch hunt and ruin their career. It's something that could easily happen to someone like Akira Tozawa too, if the videos of him torturing the monkey start making their way around. I don't think people realize how many of their favorite wrestlers have done and said nasty things. In my opinion, pro wrestling is still a pretty sick, depraved industry even in the seemingly squeaky clean higher levels. You can't let these things ruin it for you though.

But in that light, condeming AJ Styles would also be wrong, because he is very much entitled to his opinion aabout gay marriage. He doesn't support it, I disagree with him. Does that mean that his whole familly should finanncaly suffer because of it? Hell freaking no.

 

I agree. The same goes for Jay Briscoe though. Not only did fans hurt his career, they ruined Mark's. And Mark didn't even say anything.

[CROSS-Out]

Screwing over Mark is pretty shitty, but Jay literally threatened to murder anyone who tried to tell his kids gay marriage was okay. There's a very, very big leap there.

[Monkey D. Jiggy]

Yeah, that was foul. I love Jay Briscoe, but that was foul. What effecf did it have on hus career anyway?

[Paul Smackage *MOTSP*]

WWE > LGBT