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IGN Hands On (New info)


fallofparadise

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Wait maybe they just worded it wrong but from what I gather about selling the longer than match is the less they're going to sell for

I think they meant "selling" as in the time the wrestler is visibly reacting to the pain as opposed to just being laid out.

Well that makes me feel a little bit better then

 

So I wonder how that you ucm moves are going to be now as the 2K guy said they're not the same as they were before

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Yes I do. Not online, because online is cancer, but I play couch co-op very often with people.

 

Okay...so I'm finding your stance on this hard to understand.

 

How small has your meter been? Those kickouts when the meter is the same size as the needle are NOT easy to get. Are you suggesting that they are?

 

 

I can hit them more often than not, because as small as they are they're easy enough to time for me because they're almost always in one of three positions and always at the same speed (minus that one infuriating bug that would cause the bar to go so slow you didn't get a chance to kick out).

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If you can nail the tiny sliver of the meter "more often then not", then you and your friends must all sit perfectly quiet, in perfect concentration while playing. Because, when you have a room full of 5,6,7 people...I can guarantee, you are not nailing those kickouts "more often than not". You get some of them. You can kick out of a few finishers...the match runs long, tensions run high...the match feels like a proper struggle of power. But you'd have to be a pure sniper to get every single one and never lose a match. Which is basically what you're saying. You win all of your matches against human players? You only lose the ones when the meter screws you by lagging? That's what I'm calling bullshit on. I think you're grossly exaggerating how easy those kickouts are. If I was sitting in a perfectly quiet room with total concentration...then sure, I could hit that meter "more often than not"...but not in a party atmosphere with distractions.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

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Wait maybe they just worded it wrong but from what I gather about selling the longer than match is the less they're going to sell for

I think they meant "selling" as in the time the wrestler is visibly reacting to the pain as opposed to just being laid out.
Well that makes me feel a little bit better then

 

So I wonder how that you ucm moves are going to be now as the 2K guy said they're not the same as they were before

I know one of them is a positioning hold which I'm happy about, makes putting people on the top rope look a lot better now that I don't necessarily have to irish whip. But I'm guessing the system itself is just an addition to the grappling system that doesn't take any slots but is like certain button command or a direction on the right stick. It's probably just the right stick as opposed to regular grapples being A/X. At most it's the right stick + a bumper.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

 

 

Those are completely irrational fears. And I don't remember anyone back in the games with UCM doing wildly inappropriate moves. Most people just had a stalling suplex or a powerbomb. I don't recall more than a few people having the chokeslam, and it was the people who should have had it...

 

Also, why oh why would you ever let past shortcomings dictate what this new game will be like? Chances are, they will have a decent amount of new UCM's, and they will probably make the gameplay a hell of a lot more realistic and interesting.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

 

 

As timschel has said, its not the same UCM as we've seen in the past. I think that complaint should wait until we see it in action first and can confirm if thats the situation, at least thats what I think personally.

 

It sounds more to me like you'd do a regular move and then if its a move that can be UCMd you'd get to stop in the middle of it to move around and finish it somewhere else.

If you can nail the tiny sliver of the meter "more often then not", then you and your friends must all sit perfectly quiet, in perfect concentration while playing. Because, when you have a room full of 5,6,7 people...I can guarantee, you are not nailing those kickouts "more often than not". You get some of them. You can kick out of a few finishers...the match runs long, tensions run high...the match feels like a proper struggle of power. But you'd have to be a pure sniper to get every single one and never lose a match. Which is basically what you're saying. You win all of your matches against human players? You only lose the ones when the meter screws you by lagging? That's what I'm calling bullshit on. I think you're grossly exaggerating how easy those kickouts are. If I was sitting in a perfectly quiet room with total concentration...then sure, I could hit that meter "more often than not"...but not in a party atmosphere with distractions.

 

So your argument basically is "I can't do it so you must not be able to either". Whatever man, I have no reason to lie to you on this, hell if I found it hard I would not be in favour of making it harder. This is a childish argument just waiting to happen.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

... how, exactly?

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

As timschel has said, its not the same UCM as we've seen in the past. I think that complaint should wait until we see it in action first and can confirm if thats the situation, at least thats what I think personally.

 

It sounds more to me like you'd do a regular move and then if its a move that can be UCMd you'd get to stop in the middle of it to move around and finish it somewhere else.

Well that's the case and I welcome those moves with open arms we need those moves and hopefully they'll fix the other move that you're supposed to be able to control but can't

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So your argument basically is "I can't do it so you must not be able to either". Whatever man, I have no reason to lie to you on this, hell if I found it hard I would not be in favour of making it harder. This is a childish argument just waiting to happen.

 

 

 

Over simplification of everything I said, but...sure.

 

My point is, the system works, and it works the way it should. I CAN hit those kickouts. I already said that I could. But it requires precision timing and concentration. Which is the way that it should be. You seem to be acting like it requires jack shit, and you can nail them every time with zero effort. That's my issue with what you're saying. The system doesn't need to be harder in an unpredictable sense. Then it's just one shot at something and you can fail even if you are paying close attention. It's a system that sounds like it's based on tricking you more than anything else. As the current system stands, people are only good at it because they've practiced it for so long. But that doesn't stop it from being the way that it should be. Some people are really good at really hard things. But that doesn't mean that whatever that thing is should be changed for everyone else. You don't shoot 5 tin cans off a fence, and then say "I did that too easily...make it harder for everyone".

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

... how, exactly?

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

As timschel has said, its not the same UCM as we've seen in the past. I think that complaint should wait until we see it in action first and can confirm if thats the situation, at least thats what I think personally.

 

It sounds more to me like you'd do a regular move and then if its a move that can be UCMd you'd get to stop in the middle of it to move around and finish it somewhere else.

Well that's the case and I welcome those moves with open arms we need those moves and hopefully they'll fix the other move that you're supposed to be able to control but can't

 

 

There are a couple moves that have the directional throw label on them that don't actually have it, i've noticed, in 2K17.

 

So your argument basically is "I can't do it so you must not be able to either". Whatever man, I have no reason to lie to you on this, hell if I found it hard I would not be in favour of making it harder. This is a childish argument just waiting to happen.

 

 

 

Over simplification of everything I said, but...sure.

 

My point is, the system works, and it works the way it should. I CAN hit those kickouts. I already said that I could. But it requires precision timing and concentration. Which is the way that it should be. You seem to be acting like it requires jack shit, and you can nail them every time with zero effort. That's my issue with what you're saying.

 

 

And I can. Maybe you can't, and that's fine, maybe I've practiced too much or perhaps I have better reaction time than I thought, who knows, hopefully its balanced for the best of both worlds, but don't sit there and call me a liar just because I stated the truth that I personally find it too easy. I can only speak for myself, thats all I ever do unless stated otherwise. Telling me i'm a liar because I can pull something off easier than you might find it or someone else might find it just sounds kinda stupid and unnecessarily confrontational for the sake of being confrontational to me.

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And I can. Maybe you can't, and that's fine

 

Stop saying that I can't. You just sound like jerk now. I said at least three times that I can do it.

 

I'm talking about the system itself, and whether it does or doesn't need to be changed. My personal abilities, and your personal abilities to hit those kickouts are NOT the issue here. The system shouldn't be replaced with an unpredictable game of musical chairs with the intent to make you fail. Unpredictability is not a measure of skill...then it's just gambling. Any proper game should be a measure of skill.

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The best solution I can think of is have the UCM as a character trait, like resilience or hammer throw. Of course we'll know more when we get our hands on it, 2K generally get more right than they get wrong so I'm confident.

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And I can. Maybe you can't, and that's fine

 

Stop saying that I can't. You just sound like jerk now. I said at least three times that I can do it.

 

I'm talking about the system itself, and whether it does or doesn't need to be changed. My personal abilities, and your personal abilities to hit those kickouts is NOT the issue here. The system shouldn't be replaced with an unpredictable game of musical chairs with the intent to make you fail.

 

 

And you more or less calling me a liar because I said I find it to easy is any less jerk-ass like? Come on man.

 

As Timschel already said, its not being changed, only adjusted.

 

But this idiotic argument is already going to far and its clearly only going to get worse. I'm out.

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As Timschel already said, its not being changed, only adjusted.

 

Well...no point arguing with a statement as nonsensical as this.

 

Can I spraypaint a giant dick on your car and say that I haven't changed it in any way? Adjusting something is changing it. If it isn't exactly the same, then it has been changed. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, but it's not the same anymore. Timschel said it wasn't being replaced with a new system. He never said it wasn't being changed. Obviously it's being changed.

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Yeah, not taking the bait there.

 

Anyway, I wonder if these new sell systems are tied in to the position feeding system we keep hearing about as well. It'd certainly help match flow if different sells also matched up to different positions.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

they let wrestlers do moves they don't use. For example, Mark Henry might do chokeslams. Big Cass may do powerbombs. If these are just normal moves, i.e. taking up a move slot, no problems. But if they're actually stuck on wrestlers, as the article indicates, that's a problem.

 

 

I totally agree! We need the option of at least changing the type of Carry(UCM) moves for each Superstar and the corresponding moves within each of those through Move Edit. I'm sure that it looks good and works for certain Superstars but not for everyone.

 

With the way it's probably laid out, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair will be able to Chokeslam some of the smaller wrestlers. This isn't realistic at all because a lot of wrestlers will be forced to have moves in their moveset that they've never performed.

 

I know that players don't have to use them but what about the A.I.? The A.I. in the game will try to go for the UCM moves. It's not like the series has ever given us the ability to edit the A.I. logic like Fire Pro or King of Colosseum.

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Pinning:

Sounds okay, and I like that it's tougher based on damage received and move damage.

 

But I'm still not sure why they haven't just embraced the fact that it's a QTE.

It should randomize a face button to press within the timing window of the pin count. Might be a Triangle, might be a Circle. The more damage you take/powerful move used before pin, the more buttons you have press in succession within that timing window. Same count timing window, but now you have to hit more randomized face buttons in succession in that time.

 

Start of match pin attempt: press Triangle.

Midmatch pin attempt: press Triangle, Square, Triangle.

Late match pin attempt: press Circle, Triangle, Square, Triangle, X, Circle, Triangle.

 

I guess they just want to stay away from making it too complicated, but that's what difficulty levels and manual slider options are there for.

 

 

Selling:

I appreciate the continued focus on making longer matches feel different and more epic than shorter ones. It's something I enjoy in games like Fire Pro and I like that it's happening more in this series as well.

 

I don't think we will ever really be able to replicate a match's ebb and flow structure until we get to ACTIVELY sell moves, so that selling itself is made part of gameplay so you can create the feel of piques and valleys in the action, back and forth momentum, and real epic comebacks after selling for your opponent. I always thought that this was where they would go with the Showcase mode but it never evolved beyond one sided matches and cutscenes.

 

 

Interruptions:

This is something they've had all the pieces for and never fully executed, and I'm pumped to see it in action. A little worried about the "flash" pins becoming difficult to kick out of, but if it's the same as the regular kick out mechanic, we should be okay. But I'm not sure how it would be an effective surprise pin if you could kick out of it the same as a normal pin.

 

 

Carrying:

I'm hyped for this too. It should definitely add some depth to environment-related moves and gets us one step farther away from the "canned" animation/cutscene style moves. But I still remember the last time they did something like this with "Ultimate Control" moves that were never capitalized on beyond the initial introduction, so here's hoping it's a foundation for them to build on in future games rather than just a bullet point on this year's game's selling points.

 

 

All in all, this was the first time I've actually started to really look forward to this year's game beyond just interest in how it looks, and I can't wait to hear about improvements they've made to the modes I play the most like Universe.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

No one who uses a corner powerbomb in real life also uses an apron powerbomb or an over-the-top-rope Awesome Bomb. It sounds like selecting the ultimate control powerbomb move allows you to do several powerbomb variations (like in SvR07), which is inaccurate.

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UCMs are awful. They destroy the accuracy of move sets.

 

... how, exactly?

 

No one who does an apron powerbomb also does a corner powerbomb or an over-the-top-rope Awesome Bomb. It sounds like selecting the ultimate control powerbomb move allows you to do several powerbomb variations (like in SvR07), which is inaccurate.

 

 

I did not get that impression whatsoever.

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