U.S. Politics Discussion

[M3J]

 

 

 

He's not losing enough of anything to lose the 2020 election. We'll see how the midterm goes but chances are he'll be your next President too. Assuming you live in the states. Also the popular vote means absolutely nothing so I don't know why people still bring that up.

 

 

 

To say it means "absolutely nothing" is seriously downplaying it, and simply not true.

He is losing his base, and his own supporters for starters. But yeah sure, he has GOP support since they can do whatever the f they want with him in the office.

 

And why the snarky tone?

 

Same from nwo_kevin earlier.

 

Like some of you want to see him get a second term just to spite... well someone. I don't even know who you are up against anymore.

I'm not being snarky there. I'm saying what is true. He's not losing his base. People that hated him still hate him, people that love him still love him. Then there are those that love that he pisses off the left. I'm in that boat. I love how pissed off the left is. Hell I love when asshole warmongerers like Bolten and McCain would cry about him. Because I don't like either side to be honest. I just think the left are far more destructive socially and economically right now. The right for other reasons.

 

And no popular vote doesn't mean anything. That's not how you win. There is a reason why the electoral college exists.

 

Can I ask how you think they're more destructive?

 

I figured that was obvious, and as much as I'd love to answer, it'd be a snark answer. Honestly, his past posts on the left explain why he thinks that, especially claiming socialism doesn't work because of this or that but claiming capitalism would if cronyism was removed.

 

Funnily, Bush killed the economy, but under Obama the economy started to recover. The Great Depression occurred during Hoover's term, while US recovered under FDR. I've gotta read up on how Reagan and/or Bush Sr *censored*ed the economy up. Ole Bill helped a little, but that's by screwing over the poor. The right also seem to be obsessed with wasting money in defense/military rather than use it to help people.

 

And while the left can be pretty annoying socially, most of them at least care about ending bigotry, from racism to homophobia. The right however, seem to be strongly pushing for racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and any sort for white supremacy. But then again, a lot of left wingers on Twitter are annoying, like how some of them criticized McCain for being racist/bigoted towards Arabs when he defended Obama, when they probably twisted what he meant to make him look bad.

[nWo_Kevin]

 

 

 

 

He's not losing enough of anything to lose the 2020 election. We'll see how the midterm goes but chances are he'll be your next President too. Assuming you live in the states. Also the popular vote means absolutely nothing so I don't know why people still bring that up.

 

 

 

To say it means "absolutely nothing" is seriously downplaying it, and simply not true.

He is losing his base, and his own supporters for starters. But yeah sure, he has GOP support since they can do whatever the f they want with him in the office.

 

And why the snarky tone?

 

Same from nwo_kevin earlier.

 

Like some of you want to see him get a second term just to spite... well someone. I don't even know who you are up against anymore.

I'm not being snarky there. I'm saying what is true. He's not losing his base. People that hated him still hate him, people that love him still love him. Then there are those that love that he pisses off the left. I'm in that boat. I love how pissed off the left is. Hell I love when asshole warmongerers like Bolten and McCain would cry about him. Because I don't like either side to be honest. I just think the left are far more destructive socially and economically right now. The right for other reasons.

 

And no popular vote doesn't mean anything. That's not how you win. There is a reason why the electoral college exists.

 

Can I ask how you think they're more destructive?

 

And while the left can be pretty annoying socially, most of them at least care about ending bigotry, from racism to homophobia. The right however, seem to be strongly pushing for racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and any sort for white supremacy.

 

 

I don't want to answer for Bdon and I'm sure he'll post whenever he can. But it's posts like this that prove his point. In regards to the left being socially destructive and dividing people.

[LEGION]

Self awareness: 0%

[Mango kid]

He might lose but if we look at the trend of how many presidents we have had haveing only one term odds are he's probably going to win again

[Generations]

So, Trump pretty well got tore to shreds by every single speaker at the McCain funeral. On both sides of the spectrum. Was a joy to watch. I'm sure he's pouting somewhere...with his arms crossed, and a little scowl on his ugly orange mug.

[maskedmaniac]

Now I wanna watch the McCain funeral.

[LEGION]

Now I wanna watch the McCain funeral.

Watch out for the Big Bossmann

[Bdon]

 

 

 

He's not losing enough of anything to lose the 2020 election. We'll see how the midterm goes but chances are he'll be your next President too. Assuming you live in the states. Also the popular vote means absolutely nothing so I don't know why people still bring that up.

 

 

 

To say it means "absolutely nothing" is seriously downplaying it, and simply not true.

He is losing his base, and his own supporters for starters. But yeah sure, he has GOP support since they can do whatever the f they want with him in the office.

 

And why the snarky tone?

 

Same from nwo_kevin earlier.

 

Like some of you want to see him get a second term just to spite... well someone. I don't even know who you are up against anymore.

I'm not being snarky there. I'm saying what is true. He's not losing his base. People that hated him still hate him, people that love him still love him. Then there are those that love that he pisses off the left. I'm in that boat. I love how pissed off the left is. Hell I love when asshole warmongerers like Bolten and McCain would cry about him. Because I don't like either side to be honest. I just think the left are far more destructive socially and economically right now. The right for other reasons.

 

And no popular vote doesn't mean anything. That's not how you win. There is a reason why the electoral college exists.

 

Can I ask how you think they're more destructive?

 

Well for starters I'll say that both sides can be destructive in their own way. And I won't get into politicians on either side because they're really two sides of the same coin. Where this shows is in the party themselves. The social and economical agenda of both sides are what I'll focus on. The people doing the work on behalf of their parties.

 

The truth is the parties are transforming into something far worse and less tolerable than before. As politics takes shape in every facet of our lives now and becomes more polarized, each side has resorted to distorted viewpoints about one another. Social media has helped make this a reality much quicker. Both sides resort to ad hominems and alienating, doubling down on their strategies to paint the opposite in a certain manner. Sometimes true, most of the times false or exaggerated. This goes double for the left though.

 

I'll try and make this as quick as I can for now because I've been working. Can fill in stuff later. I know I'll leave a bit out here and there but there is a lot to this. You'll find the same tactics and rhetoric on both the left and right but just different points of view. The same arguments the left makes on gun control is the same arguments the right makes on abortion. The same shit the left says to defend abortion can be made to defend gun control. It just comes down to what side you fall on. Economically and policy wise it depends on how you fall on which side begins to pull away into la la land. Those on the right that wants the wall and says stupid shit like "the Mexicans took our jobs" is a major problem that many begin to regurgitate. Then there are the ones that will back Trump no matter what. They are bad yes, but just as equally as shit as the ones that attack him no matter what. The dude is obviously not the best person. And it's perfectly fine to not like his demeanor and rhetoric. He's not the most articulate guy anyway. But to say the dude is evil or one of the most evil human beings is a bit of a stretch. Demagogue? Yes. Most of them are, but to say he's just full blown evil and a tyrant is being overly dramatic. I heard the same shit said about Obama on the right too by the way. On the left you have those that want more social programs, heavier tax burdens, and higher wages in low wage jobs. Even if you aren't a socialist on the left, you usually are for social programs and higher taxes. So both sides have their groups living outside in fantasy land. Both sides are for more spending depending on the cause but more social programs will always lead to more issues than anything.

 

When you get to the left, socially. That is where it's just ad hominem after ad hominem. More so than the right. They have this idea that Trump and the right is tearing this country apart. I have a little news for them. The left are the ones that are tearing it all apart. You can't thank nazis and white supremacists or rednecks or even Russia for Trump. You can thank the left. They have done everything they can for the last few years to flip everything upside down. Calling people racists and nazis for not agreeing with them may make them feel better in the moment but does very little to change minds. Especially if you have no facts to back it up. The left is self destructive too. Even attacking their own many times. Sometimes they forget what they're even fighting for I guess. And I've seen some pretty hardcore statists on the right but not near the level of the left. The level of facism on the left is astonishing and I don't think people actually understand the meaning of fascism when they use the term. Kind of like them misusing and overusing Nazi and white supremacist. By the way, there isn't enough tiki torchers here to fill an arena. The left is using them like a boogeyman the same way the right used Osama Bin Laden to go to war. If you think for one second that White Supremacists are going to take over the country then you need a time out. There is no reality where they actually pose a threat or where we are going to adopt those ideals lol. Antifa has done far more damage than tiki torchers and have used actual fascism. People on the left whether it's at rallies, colleges, or in the media do nothing but spread hate and propaganda and act like mindless yelling drones. Socially they are destructive. They are the most self destructive. And, they have been the most violent and intolerant. SJW's are a huge problem in about every form of our entertainment now. Interfering for the sake of doing so. In order to be the next whistleblower or start a new movement. They wake up waiting to be offended by something.

 

I'd also like to mention that the left I'm speaking of is THE left as we know it today. They have been completely hijacked by people you don't want to represent you. I'm not singling anyone out nor am I saying it's everyone on the left. Same reason I won't do it for the right. But what each party is doing is reaching extreme levels to oppose one another and I'm just saying that those extremes are worse on the left. And If you're holding on to what the left and progressives were and should be then you need to at least acknowledge that that no longer applies in the party now as a whole. Maybe at one point, but it isn't your party anymore. Hasn't been for some time. It's now the party of censorship and self righteousness. It's pro racism and fascism in the disguise of anti racism and anti fascism. It's SJW's. They have done more to divide and piss off than anyone and if you want someone to point fingers at for the birth of Trump and 4chan then you may need to start looking at what the hijacked left has become. No one should excuse the right but you can't ignore how bad the left has become. Unless you're good with all of it I guess. Many experts are discussing how bad it has become. The proof is out there.

 

I would too. The whole forum is yours Bdon, but please lets try to leave out the hypothetical. There's no point in bringing up what the left COULD be doing right now when we have proof of what the right has been doing on a day to day basis. I agree that both sides are doing damage to the country and are their own worse enemy, but for the last two years the right has just been tearing this country apart.

What is your opinion? What have you seen the left do and what have you seen the right do? I'd like to know how they are tearing this country apart in your view.

 

 

 

 

 

He's not losing enough of anything to lose the 2020 election. We'll see how the midterm goes but chances are he'll be your next President too. Assuming you live in the states. Also the popular vote means absolutely nothing so I don't know why people still bring that up.

 

 

 

To say it means "absolutely nothing" is seriously downplaying it, and simply not true.

He is losing his base, and his own supporters for starters. But yeah sure, he has GOP support since they can do whatever the f they want with him in the office.

 

And why the snarky tone?

 

Same from nwo_kevin earlier.

 

Like some of you want to see him get a second term just to spite... well someone. I don't even know who you are up against anymore.

I'm not being snarky there. I'm saying what is true. He's not losing his base. People that hated him still hate him, people that love him still love him. Then there are those that love that he pisses off the left. I'm in that boat. I love how pissed off the left is. Hell I love when asshole warmongerers like Bolten and McCain would cry about him. Because I don't like either side to be honest. I just think the left are far more destructive socially and economically right now. The right for other reasons.

 

And no popular vote doesn't mean anything. That's not how you win. There is a reason why the electoral college exists.

 

Can I ask how you think they're more destructive?

 

I figured that was obvious, and as much as I'd love to answer, it'd be a snark answer. Honestly, his past posts on the left explain why he thinks that, especially claiming socialism doesn't work because of this or that but claiming capitalism would if cronyism was removed.

 

Funnily, Bush killed the economy, but under Obama the economy started to recover. The Great Depression occurred during Hoover's term, while US recovered under FDR. I've gotta read up on how Reagan and/or Bush Sr *censored*ed the economy up. Ole Bill helped a little, but that's by screwing over the poor. The right also seem to be obsessed with wasting money in defense/military rather than use it to help people.

 

And while the left can be pretty annoying socially, most of them at least care about ending bigotry, from racism to homophobia. The right however, seem to be strongly pushing for racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and any sort for white supremacy. But then again, a lot of left wingers on Twitter are annoying, like how some of them criticized McCain for being racist/bigoted towards Arabs when he defended Obama, when they probably twisted what he meant to make him look bad.

 

Bigotry and racism is always going to exist and should always be something people work on but to thing they care more about it is absurd. They're are instances where they are practically segregating themselves again. Tribalism is a growing problem and they've grown this into the mess they have. You think racism would stop growing if people would stop calling people racists? I bet the answer is yes. There's only so many times someone can be called something before it starts to take over. If you were in my face calling me an asshole then it wouldn't take very long for the asshole to come out in me.

 

I'd like to ask where you're getting that the right is pushing for racism and homophobia though?

[maskedmaniac]

To adress your question Bdon, I won't make this too complex. It's just the way the party is leading right now is absolutely immoral, one sided, and dishonest. Trump says unfounded and flat out untrue things and he goes unchecked by those closest to him. He uses bullying tactics and blames Democrats and some republicans who criticize him for every little thing that doesn't go his way. He's a one-sided president who feels that everyone is beneath him and shows it, and this can pretty much corrupt our impressionable youth who sees most powerful man on the planet doing this shit and think it's okay for them to do it too.

It's pretty sad that people let this all slide because "the economy is good". I really don't care if the economy is good or not, that is no reason to let the morality of this country go down the drain. There have been plenty of presidents in the past and there can be plenty more in the future that can manage a good economy, no need to sell ourselves out like cheap prostitutes because "the economy is good". Now if you want me to go on about the left and make this a little more balanced then I sure can, but I'll leave it at this for right now. As for my suggestion I think it's pretty easy to guess what I would say, no need to go any further into that.

[M3J]

 

 

 

 

 

He's not losing enough of anything to lose the 2020 election. We'll see how the midterm goes but chances are he'll be your next President too. Assuming you live in the states. Also the popular vote means absolutely nothing so I don't know why people still bring that up.

 

 

 

To say it means "absolutely nothing" is seriously downplaying it, and simply not true.

He is losing his base, and his own supporters for starters. But yeah sure, he has GOP support since they can do whatever the f they want with him in the office.

 

And why the snarky tone?

 

Same from nwo_kevin earlier.

 

Like some of you want to see him get a second term just to spite... well someone. I don't even know who you are up against anymore.

I'm not being snarky there. I'm saying what is true. He's not losing his base. People that hated him still hate him, people that love him still love him. Then there are those that love that he pisses off the left. I'm in that boat. I love how pissed off the left is. Hell I love when asshole warmongerers like Bolten and McCain would cry about him. Because I don't like either side to be honest. I just think the left are far more destructive socially and economically right now. The right for other reasons.

 

And no popular vote doesn't mean anything. That's not how you win. There is a reason why the electoral college exists.

 

Can I ask how you think they're more destructive?

 

And while the left can be pretty annoying socially, most of them at least care about ending bigotry, from racism to homophobia. The right however, seem to be strongly pushing for racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and any sort for white supremacy.

 

 

I don't want to answer for Bdon and I'm sure he'll post whenever he can. But it's posts like this that prove his point. In regards to the left being socially destructive and dividing people.

 

That's ironic given what I see the right wingers say on daily basis. I've seen more books from right wingers in my library attacking left wingers/liberals, but I've yet to see any book where a left winger attacks the right or conservatives.

 

The right also spread lies and make Muslims look evil, attack homosexuals, have issues with transgenders, and so much more. KKK? Nazis? The right wingers are the ones who took Kaepernick's kneeling as a sign of attack, and they're mainly the ones who counter Black Lives Matter with Blue Lives Matter instead of trying to work with BLM people.

 

Seems the right consider the left socially destructive and divisive more because the left are more accepting and respectful of immigrants (legal or otherwise), LGBT, and other groups that the right seem to hate or dislike.

[maskedmaniac]

And lets not forget about the right-wing media, aka FOX news whose on-air personalities on a nightly basis spew racist/anti-Semitic remarks about how the country is becoming too brown and entice violence against liberals. Some in the party even jokingly did Nazi salutes though for all we know they weren't joking at all. And then all the so-called Nazis marching on the streets in opposition of BLM and other liberal groups.

[M3J]

Exactly. Majority of right wingers are divisive because they're white supremacists who fear losing "dominance." There are even accounts on Twitter who have tweeted their concerns about white extinction.

 

Hell, I used to advocate for the right, left, and center/liberals and conservatives working together until I saw just how toxic conservatives could be towards non-conservatives and the hate most of them spewed.

[nWo_Kevin]

And lets not forget about the right-wing media, aka FOX news whose on-air personalities on a nightly basis spew racist/anti-Semitic remarks about how the country is becoming too brown and entice violence against liberals. Some in the party even jokingly did Nazi salutes though for all we know they weren't joking at all. And then all the so-called Nazis marching on the streets in opposition of BLM and other liberal groups.

 

Could you post a couple examples of this? Especially which anchors have said this country is becoming too brown? I'm curious which ones said that or anti-Semitic remarks.

[EJ!]

 

 

And lets not forget about the right-wing media, aka FOX news whose on-air personalities on a nightly basis spew racist/anti-Semitic remarks about how the country is becoming too brown and entice violence against liberals. Some in the party even jokingly did Nazi salutes though for all we know they weren't joking at all. And then all the so-called Nazis marching on the streets in opposition of BLM and other liberal groups.

Could you post a couple examples of this? Especially which anchors have said this country is becoming too brown? I'm curious which ones said that or anti-Semitic remarks.

Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham basically cut back to back promos on it. I dont know about anti-semitic but there were definitely at the very least some implications of them not being down with the brown population growing in the country.

[M3J]

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

[maskedmaniac]

 

 

And lets not forget about the right-wing media, aka FOX news whose on-air personalities on a nightly basis spew racist/anti-Semitic remarks about how the country is becoming too brown and entice violence against liberals. Some in the party even jokingly did Nazi salutes though for all we know they weren't joking at all. And then all the so-called Nazis marching on the streets in opposition of BLM and other liberal groups.

Could you post a couple examples of this? Especially which anchors have said this country is becoming too brown? I'm curious which ones said that or anti-Semitic remarks.

Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham basically cut back to back promos on it. I dont know about anti-semitic but there were definitely at the very least some implications of them not being down with the brown population growing in the country.

 

 

On a nightly basis might be exaggerating on my part because I don't watch FOX every night, but pretty much once a week I tune in someone is saying something that would give ol' David Duke a boner lol. Yeah I was gonna say Laura Ingraham right off the back, I could even post the video for ya. Perhaps anti-semitic wasn't the term I was looking for but back at the peak of ISIS-inspired random mass shootings before Trump got elected there was plenty of talk about "banning" Muslims. Also don't get me started on that lunatic Jeanine Pirro, the opening 5 minutes or so of her show every day are a thrill ride of hate and calls for action against whomever is on Trumps cross-hairs at the moment.

[EJ!]

Well for starters I'll say that both sides can be destructive in their own way. And I won't get into politicians on either side because they're really two sides of the same coin. Where this shows is in the party themselves. The social and economical agenda of both sides are what I'll focus on. The people doing the work on behalf of their parties.

 

 

 

The truth is the parties are transforming into something far worse and less tolerable than before. As politics takes shape in every facet of our lives now and becomes more polarized, each side has resorted to distorted viewpoints about one another. Social media has helped make this a reality much quicker. Both sides resort to ad hominems and alienating, doubling down on their strategies to paint the opposite in a certain manner. Sometimes true, most of the times false or exaggerated. This goes double for the left though.

 

I'll try and make this as quick as I can for now because I've been working. Can fill in stuff later. I know I'll leave a bit out here and there but there is a lot to this. You'll find the same tactics and rhetoric on both the left and right but just different points of view. The same arguments the left makes on gun control is the same arguments the right makes on abortion. The same shit the left says to defend abortion can be made to defend gun control. It just comes down to what side you fall on. Economically and policy wise it depends on how you fall on which side begins to pull away into la la land. Those on the right that wants the wall and says stupid shit like "the Mexicans took our jobs" is a major problem that many begin to regurgitate. Then there are the ones that will back Trump no matter what. They are bad yes, but just as equally as shit as the ones that attack him no matter what. The dude is obviously not the best person. And it's perfectly fine to not like his demeanor and rhetoric. He's not the most articulate guy anyway. But to say the dude is evil or one of the most evil human beings is a bit of a stretch. Demagogue? Yes. Most of them are, but to say he's just full blown evil and a tyrant is being overly dramatic. I heard the same shit said about Obama on the right too by the way. On the left you have those that want more social programs, heavier tax burdens, and higher wages in low wage jobs. Even if you aren't a socialist on the left, you usually are for social programs and higher taxes. So both sides have their groups living outside in fantasy land. Both sides are for more spending depending on the cause but more social programs will always lead to more issues than anything.

 

When you get to the left, socially. That is where it's just ad hominem after ad hominem. More so than the right. They have this idea that Trump and the right is tearing this country apart. I have a little news for them. The left are the ones that are tearing it all apart. You can't thank nazis and white supremacists or rednecks or even Russia for Trump. You can thank the left. They have done everything they can for the last few years to flip everything upside down. Calling people racists and nazis for not agreeing with them may make them feel better in the moment but does very little to change minds. Especially if you have no facts to back it up. The left is self destructive too. Even attacking their own many times. Sometimes they forget what they're even fighting for I guess. And I've seen some pretty hardcore statists on the right but not near the level of the left. The level of facism on the left is astonishing and I don't think people actually understand the meaning of fascism when they use the term. Kind of like them misusing and overusing Nazi and white supremacist. By the way, there isn't enough tiki torchers here to fill an arena. The left is using them like a boogeyman the same way the right used Osama Bin Laden to go to war. If you think for one second that White Supremacists are going to take over the country then you need a time out. There is no reality where they actually pose a threat or where we are going to adopt those ideals lol. Antifa has done far more damage than tiki torchers and have used actual fascism. People on the left whether it's at rallies, colleges, or in the media do nothing but spread hate and propaganda and act like mindless yelling drones. Socially they are destructive. They are the most self destructive. And, they have been the most violent and intolerant. SJW's are a huge problem in about every form of our entertainment now. Interfering for the sake of doing so. In order to be the next whistleblower or start a new movement. They wake up waiting to be offended by something.

 

I'd also like to mention that the left I'm speaking of is THE left as we know it today. They have been completely hijacked by people you don't want to represent you. I'm not singling anyone out nor am I saying it's everyone on the left. Same reason I won't do it for the right. But what each party is doing is reaching extreme levels to oppose one another and I'm just saying that those extremes are worse on the left. And If you're holding on to what the left and progressives were and should be then you need to at least acknowledge that that no longer applies in the party now as a whole. Maybe at one point, but it isn't your party anymore. Hasn't been for some time. It's now the party of censorship and self righteousness. It's pro racism and fascism in the disguise of anti racism and anti fascism. It's SJW's. They have done more to divide and piss off than anyone and if you want someone to point fingers at for the birth of Trump and 4chan then you may need to start looking at what the hijacked left has become. No one should excuse the right but you can't ignore how bad the left has become. Unless you're good with all of it I guess. Many experts are discussing how bad it has become. The proof is out there.

 

 

I actually wanted to properly respond to this now that I'm at my computer. This is really well put and easy to argue with.

 

First off, you are absolutely correct about the left and our ad hominem attacks. We hurl a lot of insults, definitely more than the right. We don't need to because we have more than enough substance to get our points across formally. However, I definitely don't think all of the attacks are unfounded.

 

I don't know if you were trying to make a direct comparison between the gun control and abortion debates, but I really hope not because they are pretty incomparable. The only real similarity is that both deal with death in some way, but it really depends on if you consider the organism inside a womb a life the same way you would consider a victim of gun violence a life. I happen not to but that's a different argument for a different day.

 

Social

 

Let's talk socially. If we're gonna bring up violence then we have to be honest here. There are many more instances of right wingers murdering and hurting people out here than lefties. Most of these infamous mass shooters as of late have been right wingers. I can't think of any one of them that haven't been exposed as some right wing lunatic after they've been caught or killed. Unite the Right 2017, a right winger drives his car into a crowd and kills Heather Heyer on video, three right wingers are going to jail for almost killing Deandre Harris on video, a guy literally shoots his pistol into a crowd of counter-protesters on video. The murder of the brown people on the train up in Oregon(?) was a right winger. The girl in the Bay Area who was executed at the train station, that was a right winger. That's just in the past year, but I really could go on. What does the left have? Antifa, who you seem to indict more than the people they go against a.k.a the white nationalists (to be polite) and to make it seem like Antifa is going out beating up random people is being dishonest. They only come out when the white supremacists come out. Unite the Right 2017, hundreds of people turned out for the event. Unite the Right 2018, literally less than 30 people showed up. Why? Because the left showed them that shit wasn't okay. If we let it rock in 2017, I'm sure the turnout this year would have been even bigger but the left fought against it and those right wingers gave it a second thought when the time came and stayed home.

 

Then you say that the left attacks its own many times. Isn't that a good thing? You can't talk about tribalism but then criticize us for keeping each other in check. The blind tribalism is definitely 90% on the right, you gotta admit that. On the left, the REAL leftists *censored*ing hate establishment democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Booker and Schumer and whoever which is why you see a wave of progressives like AOC, Cynthia Nixon and Andrew Gillum make more noise now. On the right, Roy Moore was almost the governor of Alabama because fellow Republicans endorsed him regardless of how much of a sicko he was. There is so much video evidence of Sean Hannity flipping his positions on certain policies based on who the president is at the time. There are videos of people interviewing Trumpers at rallies, and you hear them say the most cult-like shit because none of them feel he does anything wrong ever, many of them think that everything Trump does is the plan of God himself. Real leftists chew up Obama for his terrible foreign policy and high deportation numbers among other things, you won't hear that from the right about their own too often. So I ask you, which would you rather have, the side that is honest with itself or the side that's shamelessly hypocritical on too many occasions?

 

As frustrating as it may be to see some people you like be called out or whatever the case may be, I think it has to happen. It's the same thing as people not wanting to know what hotdogs are made of, you don't wanna see your favorite people be outed as racists and rapists and whatever else because that means they might have to stop doing that thing you like. I'm sorry, but that's a small price to pay for a better society in my opinion. The #MeToo movement exposed so many people and showed that men abusing their power like that is unacceptable, now things will be different moving forward because of it. And back to the whole tribalism thing, a lot of those men were self-identified liberals and leftists still got em up outta here. If you really consider yourself outside the spectrum, then you know the right wing would not do the same if those guys were Republicans. All these movements bring awareness and if fighting for a better society is what got Trump elected then I will take that charge. Also, I keep saying this because it bothers me so much. I didn't quote it but you told M3J something like "if we stop calling people racists, then racism will go away". I see that so many times and have yet to see an explanation for why that's true. And for some reason, that logic ONLY applies to racism. I've never seen anything like "if we stop calling people rapists, the rape will stop" and I think that's because people who say that downplay the existence of racism like it's just this meaningless gnat instead of something that affects many people. So then is the inverse true? Like if somebody said "if we stop calling them ignorant *Censored*s, then maybe black people will go away" would that be true? And you said something like "it's racism and fascism under the guise of anti-racism and anti-fascism" and I would love to know what you mean by that. Until then, my last point about racism is that white supremacy and racism isn't just the snarling rhetoric, the tiki torches and the white hoods. Why do that when you can hide in plain sight and be a regular member of society? You don't even have to identify as a white supremacist to fall on the same side of race issues.

 

 

 

Policy/ Economics

 

Now real quick let's talk left vs. right on policy and economics. If you only listen to the very loud and obnoxious #ImWithHer #TheResistance people, then I can understand why you think the problems you listed were the only things the left has against the right. I don't like those people either because I bet they'll shutup once Trump is impeached or just not in office. They just want somebody who is nice which is why they love Bush now because he isn't Trump or are remembering McCain as a human rights activist. If you look past those people, you will find leftist who have actual substantive things to say. Quick summary of republican economic policy: boom/bust. The kings and queens of unsustainable financial growth. Deregulate and cut taxes until everything feels great and then it crashes. Rinse, repeat. Trump and republicans will use the stock market and unemployment as indicators of how good the economy is but actual economists will tell you that those are never good indicators of how the economy is doing, and if history is as reliable as she usually is, we are on our way to busting into a recession, so buckle up. 50% of Americans make less than 50K a year, 40% of Americans struggle to pay for at least one basic need (that was from Fox News btw), wages are stagnant, people don't have healthcare. Republicans for some reason still believe in trickle-down economics when the richest people keep showing them they have very little interest in putting that money back into the economy. Let's not forget the greedy imperialist warmongers who love any chance to topple a regime and build a base in a foreign land, or prefer to spend trillions of dollars on fighter jets that do not work. Endless war costs so much money.

 

Let's look at the left. America wants to call itself a meritocracy? Fine, let's make sure everyone's basic needs are met and barring catastrophe, wherever they go from there is based on merit. In the richest country in the world, poverty should be damn near non-existent, I shouldn't see veterans begging me for money on my way to class. No one should be paying $100K for a heart attack, kids should be in schools that aren't falling apart, and a whole city should not be without clean water for three years and counting. GASP...socialism. That's the thing about leftist policy, we want to help EVERYBODY while the right wing only really cares about the wealthy. When the term socialism comes up, Republicans not-so-slyly mention Venezuela. Every single time. Now without getting into the US' involvement in the state of Venezuela, Republicans conveniently leave out the dozens of countries in which these basic socialist policies thrive in. Places like Sweden where there are literally polls saying that most people are generally happy and it's mostly because they're not in some kinda debt or financial trouble. That's what happens when you don't have to pay for school or healthcare because the country isn't tied up in unnecessary wars. The last military budget increase could have funded college for every American. Imagine not having constantly-climbing student loan debt.

 

Now healthcare should really be a no-brainer and the arguments against Medicare-for-all grow more and more senseless. It feels like America is only against it for the sake of being different, regardless of the benefits it brings. Business owners should love it considering they wouldn't have to provide insurance to their employees and they can instead use the money to pay them more in wages, which would give them more money to put back into the economy so that it can grow in a more sustainable way. "But what about the waiting list? We'd have to ration care." Yes but we would ration it based on need instead of wallet size. So if you NEED immediate care, you would get it and it wouldn't put you in crippling debt afterwards. "Who's paying the doctors?" I don't know, who's paying police officers and firefighters and other emergency personnel?

 

The common question from Republicans is always "how are we gonna pay for this stuff that undoubtedly helps the American people as a whole?" but they never ask that when the government drops another bombshell military budget increase to strengthen the strongest military in the entire world or when we start bombing a brand new middle-eastern country or when we cut taxes for the rich which people for some reason forget costs hella money (also the last tax cut had 87% of its benefits go to the top 1% of the country and Republicans pushed for it) or when we talk about this damn wall or the Space Force or ICE, you know, all the shit that helps pretty much nobody. Even if you hate taxes, if you're gonna pay them, wouldn't you rather your money go to things that visibly help the people in our country? When the Lebron school news came you were giddy at the idea of voluntarism showing itself through Mr. James, but it is very naive to think people will regularly do what Lebron did. NOBODY would go to school in a society like that. It's cheaper and makes more sense for everybody to pay a little into something that helps everybody, don't you think?

 

 

[Scott Eastwood]

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

https://nypost.com/2015/12/21/nj-police-captain-says-some-muslims-did-celebrate-on-911/

[Ernez]

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

Ya know, tbh I don't see Alex Jones as right. I don't see him as anything other than a con.

[Generations]

Jones says shit that sounds ludicrous to the left, but is agreeable to the right.

 

Con or not, I'd say he's far right. Trump is a con too, but we all know where his fanbase lies. So, I don't see "being a con" as a mutually exclusive attribute that keeps someone from being right or left.

[maskedmaniac]

^True. I'd say the left has their fare share of cons like Al Sharpton.

[Generations]

Apparently right-wingers are actually questioning whether Arizona representative Eric Descheenie is a legal citizen.

 

He's a *censored*ing Navajo Indian. Let me just repeat that...

 

The man is of Native American descent.

 

So...there's that. A clear visual of how racist these people are, that they see brown skin and automatically assume a man is a Mexican (or whatever it is that they think).

[maskedmaniac]

I think these morons know what they're doing, they just do this to fan of the racist flames.

[Generations]

I think these morons know what they're doing, they just do this to fan of the racist flames.

 

I think they're white supremacists, and they'd rather play the ignorance card than accept responsibility for being what they are (white supremacists).

 

It's easy to play off calling a native man an "illegal immigrant" if you claim that your concern lies with jobs, or government spending, or whatever it is that anti-immigrant people claim to be concerned with...but, I think the reality (more often than not), is just that they are white supremacists and they learned that they can use "I didn't know any better" as a crutch.

 

It takes two seconds to look up where a man is from. If you claim to be unable to do that, then I'm sorry...I don't buy your bullshit. How are you allowed to have a serious, logical opinion on a subject, if you can't even read up on where a man is from?

 

So, I agree...it isn't ignorance. It's a deliberate means of playing dumb. Same thing they did with Obama and his birth certificate. They had every single bit of proof that any sane person would need to see that he was a legal citizen, but they continued to say otherwise...because it allowed them to hate him for the reason they chose. It was convenient to their cause. Republicans love convenience.

[EJ!]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/01/an-appalling-robocall-racism-invades-floridas-governors-race-second-time-this-week/

 

I dont see how people can see this and see people harass David Hogg and then think leftists are more destructive. How many times do we have to see right wingers spin shit like this or try and do damage control for these types of stories?