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maskedmaniac

U.S. Politics Discussion

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The only reason they're considered traitors is because they lost it's no different than the Revolutionary War

 

And from all the polls they did on whether to keep or get rid of most people voted to keep the statues cuz when they look at the statues they don't see any negative or any ill thoughts there no real reason to take them down beside a politic move to get votes

 

 

Even Lincoln said he didn't want to destroy slavery at the beginning of War slavery was not the cause but if he freed the slaves the South will lose their major Workforce without that they can't win the war

 

It was more a tactical move more then wanting to get rid of slavery

 

I don't want to imagine what things would be like the Union didn't win. They technically are traitors regardless of how it ended.

 

I've seen different polls with different results so that depends on where you look.

 

And I know Lincoln didn't really care, that's why I don't care that much about him, but he did the right thing and that's all that matters.

 

States' rights to own slaves

Smh. Also how much do you know about Robert E. Lee?

 

 

Why the "smh"? That's what the Civil War was about. If you wanna tell me Lee had a heart of gold and didn't want confederate statues erected, that doesn't matter to me.

 

I wonder if people in Germany have arguments about who were really the bad guys during the Holocaust, because slavery and waging a war against your own country to preserve and continue it doesn't seem to be enough to warrant a unanimous "these guys are assholes" judgement in America.

 

Also, a lot of the confederate statues were erected for the sole purpose of black intimidation during Jim Crow.

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I honestly think the problem with Pence though is the fact he wasn't heard MUCH from him at all.

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Agreed. I don't know what to exactly expect of him...in terms of being a president.

not a good thing.

And for some reason, judging purely by aesthetics...his face reminds me of a ghoul face (from Fallout series) filled with plastics...

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On the confederate statues there is no room for hate. And, apparently, no room for anything anyone else finds offensive. Remember when ISIS took all those cities and destroyed al those monuments they found offensive. This is exactly the same emotion and sentiment. Nothing more than one group of people taking down monuments they personally find offensive.

There's no reason those statues should be up. Don't say it's history. There's not a statue of Osama Bin Laden in New York City to remind us of the history of 9/11. The confederacy were enemies to the United States, traitors. We don't glorify our enemies. Enemies that killed their own just so they could keep using slave labor. There's nothing historical about these statues. You know how long these statues have been up? Not directly after the Civil War. Many were created in the 1960s during the civil rights movement by the KKK in order to strike fear into black civilians. These were always about hate. The fact that Americans defend these statues being up or fly confederate flags is disgusting to me.

 

 

Yeah. They are pretty much glorified participation trophies

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I don't know how Mike Pence would be less worse as President tbh

People won't see him as an utter idiot as they do Trump. That's probably about it? Otherwise I could see him being worse than Trump, policy-wise.

 

I personally don't care about any of the other statues we got up, but the people who literally broke away from the United States and started a war with its own country just for the right to own human beings, THEY don't need to be honored. Andrew Jackson is another I wouldn't want honored in anyway. Other than that, I don't care. Only statues I care about are MLK and a few others.

 

And you didn't say this but I've seen the argument of "THEYRE ERASING HISTORY" and I think that's stupid. You don't look at a statue and automatically learn what it represents. Anyone can learn history without statues.

I can literally see bdon ready to type out an essay on how you're wrong. Though slavery was a big part of it, the South didn't fight solely due to slavery. I'm willing to concede that much, as wrong as they still were.

 

but yeah, after learning when and why the monuments were erected, I'm definitely for taking them down. Otherwise it was kinda nonsense to fight hard to take it down, IMO.

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I don't know how Mike Pence would be less worse as President tbh

People won't see him as an utter idiot as they do Trump. That's probably about it? Otherwise I could see him being worse than Trump, policy-wise.

I personally don't care about any of the other statues we got up, but the people who literally broke away from the United States and started a war with its own country just for the right to own human beings, THEY don't need to be honored. Andrew Jackson is another I wouldn't want honored in anyway. Other than that, I don't care. Only statues I care about are MLK and a few others.

 

And you didn't say this but I've seen the argument of "THEYRE ERASING HISTORY" and I think that's stupid. You don't look at a statue and automatically learn what it represents. Anyone can learn history without statues.

I can literally see bdon ready to type out an essay on how you're wrong. Though slavery was a big part of it, the South didn't fight solely due to slavery. I'm willing to concede that much, as wrong as they still were.

 

but yeah, after learning when and why the monuments were erected, I'm definitely for taking them down. Otherwise it was kinda nonsense to fight hard to take it down, IMO.

That's not one hundred percent true yes some of them may have been for that but I'm guessing a lot of them was up that way to celebrate the 50 and a 100 anniversary of the Civil war

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Big mistake was those people that took a statue down themselves and then started spitting on it and kicking it. Not only did they break the law and vandalized city property, but they also defaced it. It made them look really bad and gave the alt-right and others reason to oppose them even more.

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Perhaps the sadest part of all of this is that, 152 years after Appomattox, America has finally forgotten what the survivors of the Civil War learned at a ghastly price. When Lee surrendered, General US Grant gave his men 25,000 rations, because they were starving. Lee and his men were permitted to keep their arms and horses and allowed to go home. Union soldiers wept, and shouted hurrahs. The healing of America began that day. Lee's men were honored with respect, and dignity. Why? Why, after the bloodiest, most destructive conflict in the Western Hemisphere did the victors choose not to exact a horrible retribution upon secessionist traitors and slavers? And what gives us the wisdom, in this day, to say we have more justification to do so than the victors themselves? They knew something that, unfortunately, we have forgotten. Their messages to us, their children, have been lost. May God spare us from having to re-learn that lesson at similar cost. In 1863, had our foreign enemies decided to take the opportunity to conquer the entire country, they would not have been able to do so, because the American armies were already the largest and most powerful on Earth. But today, Civil War II would be an invitation for all our enemies abroad to act in concert to destroy us. That is precisely what is happening. After Americans are at each other's throats and our cities are in flames, the foreign entities that instigated it and financed it will take the opportunity to destroy us all.

 

So a protest by black lives matter movement in Boston was shut down by anti protesters

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Austinfan, this is not a shot at you, but I'm legit confused.... Are those your words or you copy pasted from somewhere?

Whoever said that... USAs problems are are made only in America.

And wth, you mean Boston "free speech" protest was shut down by anti protesters? Which included thousands of people actually, and including Black Lives Movement. .

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Thousands of people, not thousands of "black" people. It was more of a left and right thing more than anything. Since the first protest was done by conservatives.

Don't distort.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Na, the best part is white nationalist complaining about whites losing power to the jews, which last I checked are white.

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I honestly think the problem with Pence though is the fact he wasn't heard MUCH from him at all.

 

And he's been quiet for the exact reason that he's wanted to distance himself from the dumpster fire that is Trump. Which, is why I think, at the very least...we shouldn't have to see/hear from him every single day if he becomes president. Something that I think we're all tired as *Censored* of getting with Trump...especially the goddamn military fighter jets that come screaming over my town every day for the past week or so. Yes, let me repeat that phrase. Your tax money is going towards fighter jets that circle New Jersey while Trump plays golf in Bedminster.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Na, the best part is white nationalist complaining about whites losing power to the jews, which last I checked are white.

 

 

This. Most Jews in the US are white from what I've seen, no, EXTREMELY white. But I guess this would be the problem with an all-white society is that it simply cannot exist on sheer hate alone and the most hateful of the bunch would look to those in the minority (like Jews or red heads) and blame them for their problems. This is the problem right now is that most of the hateful bigots are poor lower class people that want to blame those even lower than them on the chain for having to work shitty low paying jobs. The truth of the matter is if you don't get a good education and give yourself a chance to succeed, you may be the whitest person on earth but you will still be flipping burgers at McDonalds or wiping up vomit at some amusement park.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Lol, oh the irony of this post.

 

First of all, I think you're missing a lot of knowledge when it comes to the civil war and also the mindset of both sides.

 

Secondly, you're lumping white people again. You're talking about a minority group of white people who think stupid shit like that. And other people of different races do the same. Also if you really want equality and diversity then maybe you shouldn't be telling white people they have privilege. Not only is that racist in itself, it wouldn't do anything to close any of those invisible gaps you think plague everyone but whites. You are still distancing people of other races by promoting this idea of privilege and you somehow think whites are at fault, lol. Who's really failing to accept diversity? You act like there aren't groups out there right now of other colors and creeds doing the same thing. Start with yourself first. Seems you can't get over it.

 

By the way I'm well aware that there is still racism in the world. I'm aware that there are cases where it comes into play with police and such. But you keep driving this white privilege shit down people's throats then it'll just create more divide. You're creating tension on both sides.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Na, the best part is white nationalist complaining about whites losing power to the jews, which last I checked are white.

 

 

This. Most Jews in the US are white from what I've seen, no, EXTREMELY white. But I guess this would be the problem with an all-white society is that it simply cannot exist on sheer hate alone and the most hateful of the bunch would look to those in the minority (like Jews or red heads) and blame them for their problems. This is the problem right now is that most of the hateful bigots are poor lower class people that want to blame those even lower than them on the chain for having to work shitty low paying jobs. The truth of the matter is if you don't get a good education and give yourself a chance to succeed, you may be the whitest person on earth but you will still be flipping burgers at McDonalds or wiping up vomit at some amusement park.

 

I thought people hated Jews because they killed Christ. And the Jews were scapegoated by the Nazis due to prejudice against the group.

 

Good education isn't shit anymore, given how many people get good education now. Problem is, most companies will ask for experience even for entry level jobs, so if you haven't done a good internship you're kinda screwed.

 

 

Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Lol, oh the irony of this post.

 

First of all, I think you're missing a lot of knowledge when it comes to the civil war and also the mindset of both sides.

 

Secondly, you're lumping white people again. You're talking about a minority group of white people who think stupid shit like that. And other people of different races do the same. Also if you really want equality and diversity then maybe you shouldn't be telling white people they have privilege. Not only is that racist in itself, it wouldn't do anything to close any of those invisible gaps you think plague everyone but whites. You are still distancing people of other races by promoting this idea of privilege and you somehow think whites are at fault, lol. Who's really failing to accept diversity? You act like there aren't groups out there right now of other colors and creeds doing the same thing. Start with yourself first. Seems you can't get over it.

 

By the way I'm well aware that there is still racism in the world. I'm aware that there are cases where it comes into play with police and such. But you keep driving this white privilege shit down people's throats then it'll just create more divide. You're creating tension on both sides.

 

No irony here. And predictable response as always.

 

And no, I'm not. Some knowledge, I'll give you that. But the Confederates attacked first, and they betrayed USA.

 

Secondly, how do you know they're the minority? I'm not saying they're not, but I've actually experienced many white people trying so hard to look oppressed and deny that they actually do have privilege. This is in no way racist at all, it is a fact that white privilege exists. And most people who know that exist are not likely to believe white people when they deny it, given they aren't as likely to notice it. I never said white people aren't plagued by the issues that other races face, but they're the least plagued. Wage gaps, more likely to get hired, less likely to get jailed, and etc are in favor of the whites. If a black man and a white man both enter a store at the same time, with their hoods on, more employees are going to be wary of the black man than they will of a white man, even if he steals stuff.

 

If you are aware that there's still racism, then you should be aware that white privilege is a thing. The only ones creating tension are the ones who deny this; the white people who are aware are trying to do something about it and help people of color out. Some point out the issues that people of color face, some help out, etc. You don't understand diversity if you think acknowledging something that's true is against diversity. What would make one against diversity is refusing to hire white people or work with them.

 

Facts are there. It's up to you to whether remain ignorant about it or see the truth.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Na, the best part is white nationalist complaining about whites losing power to the jews, which last I checked are white.

 

 

This. Most Jews in the US are white from what I've seen, no, EXTREMELY white. But I guess this would be the problem with an all-white society is that it simply cannot exist on sheer hate alone and the most hateful of the bunch would look to those in the minority (like Jews or red heads) and blame them for their problems. This is the problem right now is that most of the hateful bigots are poor lower class people that want to blame those even lower than them on the chain for having to work shitty low paying jobs. The truth of the matter is if you don't get a good education and give yourself a chance to succeed, you may be the whitest person on earth but you will still be flipping burgers at McDonalds or wiping up vomit at some amusement park.

 

I thought people hated Jews because they killed Christ. And the Jews were scapegoated by the Nazis due to prejudice against the group.

 

Good education isn't shit anymore, given how many people get good education now. Problem is, most companies will ask for experience even for entry level jobs, so if you haven't done a good internship you're kinda screwed.

 

 

Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Lol, oh the irony of this post.

 

First of all, I think you're missing a lot of knowledge when it comes to the civil war and also the mindset of both sides.

 

Secondly, you're lumping white people again. You're talking about a minority group of white people who think stupid shit like that. And other people of different races do the same. Also if you really want equality and diversity then maybe you shouldn't be telling white people they have privilege. Not only is that racist in itself, it wouldn't do anything to close any of those invisible gaps you think plague everyone but whites. You are still distancing people of other races by promoting this idea of privilege and you somehow think whites are at fault, lol. Who's really failing to accept diversity? You act like there aren't groups out there right now of other colors and creeds doing the same thing. Start with yourself first. Seems you can't get over it.

 

By the way I'm well aware that there is still racism in the world. I'm aware that there are cases where it comes into play with police and such. But you keep driving this white privilege shit down people's throats then it'll just create more divide. You're creating tension on both sides.

 

No irony here. And predictable response as always.

 

And no, I'm not. Some knowledge, I'll give you that. But the Confederates attacked first, and they betrayed USA.

 

Secondly, how do you know they're the minority? I'm not saying they're not, but I've actually experienced many white people trying so hard to look oppressed and deny that they actually do have privilege. This is in no way racist at all, it is a fact that white privilege exists. And most people who know that exist are not likely to believe white people when they deny it, given they aren't as likely to notice it. I never said white people aren't plagued by the issues that other races face, but they're the least plagued. Wage gaps, more likely to get hired, less likely to get jailed, and etc are in favor of the whites. If a black man and a white man both enter a store at the same time, with their hoods on, more employees are going to be wary of the black man than they will of a white man, even if he steals stuff.

 

If you are aware that there's still racism, then you should be aware that white privilege is a thing. The only ones creating tension are the ones who deny this; the white people who are aware are trying to do something about it and help people of color out. Some point out the issues that people of color face, some help out, etc. You don't understand diversity if you think acknowledging something that's true is against diversity. What would make one against diversity is refusing to hire white people or work with them.

 

Facts are there. It's up to you to whether remain ignorant about it or see the truth.

 

That's subjective. People could also look at it like the federal government betrayed it's people. Slapping higher taxes on them. Imposing views or laws for everyone that they disagree with (not just slavery). They looked to free themselves of too much government control. Collectivism. To preserve the right to do what's best for their own state and their people. To look at the confederacy simply as just traitors then you really don't understand. But depending on where you grew up, it changes what you were taught about the war and both the North and South.

 

And how many is many? lol. Hard to believe. You still are lumping. It is not a fact. It is a belief. It is not even widely accepted. If you believe in white privilege then you think that there is some superior benefit to being white. That my friend is racist. There are no facts. What is this science? lol. These are your opinions. If you believe white people are still plagued then who is plaguing them? It's obviously the same people that are plaguing the others, yes?. Less or not, how does blaming whites help fix what the system has put in place for them? You realize the government has kept these groups in a system right? Blaming all white people won't help. Pointing out a so called privilege is divisive. It puts people on a pedestal. It creates that mindset. It makes them defensive. How you don't see this is beyond me. You are creating the tension. Not them, lol. If people went on about their day without this stigma of why others may hate them for something not of their doing, true or not, then there wouldn't be tension. You are pointing out something about people you don't like and then blaming them for getting defensive. That's asinine.

 

If a white man and black man walked in together looking suspicious then people would be watching both of them and probably assume they are together. This isn't 1960, lol. If you don't want to look like a thug then don't walk in looking and acting like one. Take your hood off. Not hard. You have presented no facts. Just a weak scenario and a couple of random things that has happened here and there. There is a cause for this mistreatment. It's not everyday white people. It's your government, made up of all creeds and colors that will sell you and me out for votes and the almighty dollar. Quit putting people on pedestals and creating tension. You're creating more hate and division between groups that will be more concerned with fighting each other over bullshit than fighting the real enemy that put them in that system and kept them there for the better part of the last century. You're wasting too much time and energy trying to trick people into thinking they are part of a problem when they aren't. That's the truth.

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Interestingly, for a group of people so intensely "patriotic," they sure like supporting an ex-nation that would have ended USA. Man, I truly love how white people are in such denial about their privilege, and that they'll literally come up with all sorts of shit to make themselves out to be oppressed. It's sad how instead of accepting equality and diversity, they have to come up with shit like how they're going extinct or losing dominance or whatnot.

Lol, oh the irony of this post.

 

First of all, I think you're missing a lot of knowledge when it comes to the civil war and also the mindset of both sides.

 

Secondly, you're lumping white people again. You're talking about a minority group of white people who think stupid shit like that. And other people of different races do the same. Also if you really want equality and diversity then maybe you shouldn't be telling white people they have privilege. Not only is that racist in itself, it wouldn't do anything to close any of those invisible gaps you think plague everyone but whites. You are still distancing people of other races by promoting this idea of privilege and you somehow think whites are at fault, lol. Who's really failing to accept diversity? You act like there aren't groups out there right now of other colors and creeds doing the same thing. Start with yourself first. Seems you can't get over it.

 

By the way I'm well aware that there is still racism in the world. I'm aware that there are cases where it comes into play with police and such. But you keep driving this white privilege shit down people's throats then it'll just create more divide. You're creating tension on both sides.

 

No irony here. And predictable response as always.

 

And no, I'm not. Some knowledge, I'll give you that. But the Confederates attacked first, and they betrayed USA.

 

Secondly, how do you know they're the minority? I'm not saying they're not, but I've actually experienced many white people trying so hard to look oppressed and deny that they actually do have privilege. This is in no way racist at all, it is a fact that white privilege exists. And most people who know that exist are not likely to believe white people when they deny it, given they aren't as likely to notice it. I never said white people aren't plagued by the issues that other races face, but they're the least plagued. Wage gaps, more likely to get hired, less likely to get jailed, and etc are in favor of the whites. If a black man and a white man both enter a store at the same time, with their hoods on, more employees are going to be wary of the black man than they will of a white man, even if he steals stuff.

 

If you are aware that there's still racism, then you should be aware that white privilege is a thing. The only ones creating tension are the ones who deny this; the white people who are aware are trying to do something about it and help people of color out. Some point out the issues that people of color face, some help out, etc. You don't understand diversity if you think acknowledging something that's true is against diversity. What would make one against diversity is refusing to hire white people or work with them.

 

Facts are there. It's up to you to whether remain ignorant about it or see the truth.

.

 

And how many is many? lol. Hard to believe. You still are lumping. It is not a fact. It is a belief. It is not even widely accepted. If you believe in white privilege then you think that there is some superior benefit to being white. That my friend is racist. There are no facts. What is this science? lol.

 

This is... I don't know. Good points M3J on this page. But for real, Bdon, can't you really see the absurd reversed blamed here? I believe you are a smart man, and that you can't possibly say the bolded thing. "White privilage" is not a belief. You don't get to deny that. But the whole sentence is nonsensical on a whole other level really. Racist would be admiting there is white priviliage and then supporting it, and this is realising it...realising the problem so it can be fixed. How is that racist? I'm sure you see it, right?

 

The thing I don't get is...why is it so hard to take a different view, take something from it and acknowledge it, or admiting that there may just be something that you don't understand about the problem? Because after all, that problem is an american problem. This is a general question and statement.

 

And I'm posting this here since it was a part of a post in the old thread before it reached the page limit, and I'm really interested in the answer to the question. Just the answer, if there is any.

 

 

But for example, I heard a very good point, or a question that is actually very difficult to answer... How should a black man get his message across, or what is the right way? "If I march on the street, people call me a thug, if I go out and protest, people say it's a riot, if I bend down on one knee then again is not right (colin kaepernick situation) What is the right way for a black person to get attention in America?". Though what Kapernick did was actually the one thing that did anybody absolutely no harm, and the message was strong...yet it wasn't right.

 

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Confederate General Patrick Cleburne

 

Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the War; will be impressed by all the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.

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The sad part is that the events in Charlottesville to happen for America to address white supremacy. That's the problem within itself. We should've been addressed this issue. It might not be 1960 but we're still having the same problems our ancestors had. No matter how you dress and behavior. If your a person of color your thug in this system. Your gulity until proven innocent. Like I said before racism has refined itself. The new racism is to pretend there is no racism. White privlege comes with being a system of white supremacy. Whether you acknowledge it or not. It's easy to deny something you don't experience. Black racism is namecalling. White supremacy will mess up your entire life. Even when we do get ourselves together. The FBI goes under suspension. Jobs can discriminate againest someone for having dreadlocks. Which is a natural hairstyle. We're given the illusion of inclusion. The media deliberately went out of their way to not call these white supremacist terrorist. If it was BLM they would've been caused rioters, terrorist etc. The system wants us to suffer in silence. Only reason why they gave Kapernick so much shit. Most were condeming him for taking a knee for the national anthem. But had nothing to say about the reason he did. Which shows we're seen as less than human. Which is unfortunate. Whenever a black person dies. It's what about black on black crime which is sad as well. But we're all not doing the killings. Whites kill whites. Asians kill Asians etc. It's something that happens in every group. If the higher ups really wanted true equality. They know what to do.

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