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Should just become a law after reading about the Golden State serial killer arrest should the government make it by law by law that every child that's born its DNA gets taken at Birth in case it commits a crime later on

Oh and David hog set up a go find me page to post Trump Twitter's on billboards in Texas where he bashes Cruz after endorsing him

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Should just become a law after reading about the Golden State serial killer arrest should the government make it by law by law that every child that's born its DNA gets taken at Birth in case it commits a crime later on

Oh and David hog set up a go find me page to post Trump Twitter's on billboards in Texas where he bashes Cruz after endorsing him

So youre saying the government has everyones DNA so if they need help identifying a criminal then they would use that? I dont know. I definitely see both sides. Lot of pros and a lot of cons. Either way, youre not getting people to agree to that.

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Should just become a law after reading about the Golden State serial killer arrest should the government make it by law by law that every child that's born its DNA gets taken at Birth in case it commits a crime later on

Oh and David hog set up a go find me page to post Trump Twitter's on billboards in Texas where he bashes Cruz after endorsing him

So youre saying the government has everyones DNA so if they need help identifying a criminal then they would use that? I dont know. I definitely see both sides. Lot of pros and a lot of cons. Either way, youre not getting people to agree to that.

Not asking people to agree with it or not I just want to see what people's opinion is I may I see a lot of Pros on what it can do but whether or not those benefits can outweigh the cons

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Should just become a law after reading about the Golden State serial killer arrest should the government make it by law by law that every child that's born its DNA gets taken at Birth in case it commits a crime later on

Oh and David hog set up a go find me page to post Trump Twitter's on billboards in Texas where he bashes Cruz after endorsing him

So youre saying the government has everyones DNA so if they need help identifying a criminal then they would use that? I dont know. I definitely see both sides. Lot of pros and a lot of cons. Either way, youre not getting people to agree to that.

Not asking people to agree with it or not I just want to see what people's opinion is I may I see a lot of Pros on what it can do but whether or not those benefits can outweigh the cons

I meant the government wouldnt get people to agree to that. It is a good idea and it may help with accuracy but its just a matter of privacy. I mean I dont have any intention on ever committing a heinous crime but knowing the government would have a piece of me ready to use whenever they want would kinda bother me. Then again, if its normalized enough people wouldnt care and maybe it would even prevent murders if you know how easily you can be caught.

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Should just become a law after reading about the Golden State serial killer arrest should the government make it by law by law that every child that's born its DNA gets taken at Birth in case it commits a crime later on

Oh and David hog set up a go find me page to post Trump Twitter's on billboards in Texas where he bashes Cruz after endorsing him

So youre saying the government has everyones DNA so if they need help identifying a criminal then they would use that? I dont know. I definitely see both sides. Lot of pros and a lot of cons. Either way, youre not getting people to agree to that.
Not asking people to agree with it or not I just want to see what people's opinion is I may I see a lot of Pros on what it can do but whether or not those benefits can outweigh the cons
I meant the government wouldnt get people to agree to that. It is a good idea and it may help with accuracy but its just a matter of privacy. I mean I dont have any intention on ever committing a heinous crime but knowing the government would have a piece of me ready to use whenever they want would kinda bother me. Then again, if its normalized enough people wouldnt care and maybe it would even prevent murders if you know how easily you can be caught.

Yeah it really could shut down serial killers

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The government having everyone's DNA is way more destructive and worrying than simply allowing them to find serial killers. They can basically declare anyone a threat for any reason, and be able to find them based on DNA evidence. Or worse yet, place your DNA at the scene of a crime and say you were there. No thank you.

 

Federal governments are shady as *Censored*. I think this current administration proves that shit without a shadow of a doubt by allowing ISPs to sell our data (and all the other shady shit they're up to).

 

Again, no. I'll take my chances getting murdered. The government doesn't need my DNA on file.

 

Besides, they probably have that shit anyway. Of all the times you've had a needle in you, you don't think someone has stored information about your DNA along the way? Hell, there was a recent scandal about those in-home DNA tests selling the information. So, yeah...that's a pretty naive sentiment. I'm sure the government knows way more about us all than we would even think possible. But, we certainly don't need to pass a law allowing the government to unilaterally declare people murderers. I think we're good on that.

 

Austin over here posting like he wants Judge Dredd or Minority Report to be our reality...

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Well for starters I'll say that both sides can be destructive in their own way. And I won't get into politicians on either side because they're really two sides of the same coin. Where this shows is in the party themselves. The social and economical agenda of both sides are what I'll focus on. The people doing the work on behalf of their parties.

 

 

 

The truth is the parties are transforming into something far worse and less tolerable than before. As politics takes shape in every facet of our lives now and becomes more polarized, each side has resorted to distorted viewpoints about one another. Social media has helped make this a reality much quicker. Both sides resort to ad hominems and alienating, doubling down on their strategies to paint the opposite in a certain manner. Sometimes true, most of the times false or exaggerated. This goes double for the left though.

 

I'll try and make this as quick as I can for now because I've been working. Can fill in stuff later. I know I'll leave a bit out here and there but there is a lot to this. You'll find the same tactics and rhetoric on both the left and right but just different points of view. The same arguments the left makes on gun control is the same arguments the right makes on abortion. The same shit the left says to defend abortion can be made to defend gun control. It just comes down to what side you fall on. Economically and policy wise it depends on how you fall on which side begins to pull away into la la land. Those on the right that wants the wall and says stupid shit like "the Mexicans took our jobs" is a major problem that many begin to regurgitate. Then there are the ones that will back Trump no matter what. They are bad yes, but just as equally as shit as the ones that attack him no matter what. The dude is obviously not the best person. And it's perfectly fine to not like his demeanor and rhetoric. He's not the most articulate guy anyway. But to say the dude is evil or one of the most evil human beings is a bit of a stretch. Demagogue? Yes. Most of them are, but to say he's just full blown evil and a tyrant is being overly dramatic. I heard the same shit said about Obama on the right too by the way. On the left you have those that want more social programs, heavier tax burdens, and higher wages in low wage jobs. Even if you aren't a socialist on the left, you usually are for social programs and higher taxes. So both sides have their groups living outside in fantasy land. Both sides are for more spending depending on the cause but more social programs will always lead to more issues than anything.

 

When you get to the left, socially. That is where it's just ad hominem after ad hominem. More so than the right. They have this idea that Trump and the right is tearing this country apart. I have a little news for them. The left are the ones that are tearing it all apart. You can't thank nazis and white supremacists or rednecks or even Russia for Trump. You can thank the left. They have done everything they can for the last few years to flip everything upside down. Calling people racists and nazis for not agreeing with them may make them feel better in the moment but does very little to change minds. Especially if you have no facts to back it up. The left is self destructive too. Even attacking their own many times. Sometimes they forget what they're even fighting for I guess. And I've seen some pretty hardcore statists on the right but not near the level of the left. The level of facism on the left is astonishing and I don't think people actually understand the meaning of fascism when they use the term. Kind of like them misusing and overusing Nazi and white supremacist. By the way, there isn't enough tiki torchers here to fill an arena. The left is using them like a boogeyman the same way the right used Osama Bin Laden to go to war. If you think for one second that White Supremacists are going to take over the country then you need a time out. There is no reality where they actually pose a threat or where we are going to adopt those ideals lol. Antifa has done far more damage than tiki torchers and have used actual fascism. People on the left whether it's at rallies, colleges, or in the media do nothing but spread hate and propaganda and act like mindless yelling drones. Socially they are destructive. They are the most self destructive. And, they have been the most violent and intolerant. SJW's are a huge problem in about every form of our entertainment now. Interfering for the sake of doing so. In order to be the next whistleblower or start a new movement. They wake up waiting to be offended by something.

 

I'd also like to mention that the left I'm speaking of is THE left as we know it today. They have been completely hijacked by people you don't want to represent you. I'm not singling anyone out nor am I saying it's everyone on the left. Same reason I won't do it for the right. But what each party is doing is reaching extreme levels to oppose one another and I'm just saying that those extremes are worse on the left. And If you're holding on to what the left and progressives were and should be then you need to at least acknowledge that that no longer applies in the party now as a whole. Maybe at one point, but it isn't your party anymore. Hasn't been for some time. It's now the party of censorship and self righteousness. It's pro racism and fascism in the disguise of anti racism and anti fascism. It's SJW's. They have done more to divide and piss off than anyone and if you want someone to point fingers at for the birth of Trump and 4chan then you may need to start looking at what the hijacked left has become. No one should excuse the right but you can't ignore how bad the left has become. Unless you're good with all of it I guess. Many experts are discussing how bad it has become. The proof is out there.

 

 

I actually wanted to properly respond to this now that I'm at my computer. This is really well put and easy to argue with.

 

First off, you are absolutely correct about the left and our ad hominem attacks. We hurl a lot of insults, definitely more than the right. We don't need to because we have more than enough substance to get our points across formally. However, I definitely don't think all of the attacks are unfounded.

 

I don't know if you were trying to make a direct comparison between the gun control and abortion debates, but I really hope not because they are pretty incomparable. The only real similarity is that both deal with death in some way, but it really depends on if you consider the organism inside a womb a life the same way you would consider a victim of gun violence a life. I happen not to but that's a different argument for a different day.

 

Social

 

Let's talk socially. If we're gonna bring up violence then we have to be honest here. There are many more instances of right wingers murdering and hurting people out here than lefties. Most of these infamous mass shooters as of late have been right wingers. I can't think of any one of them that haven't been exposed as some right wing lunatic after they've been caught or killed. Unite the Right 2017, a right winger drives his car into a crowd and kills Heather Heyer on video, three right wingers are going to jail for almost killing Deandre Harris on video, a guy literally shoots his pistol into a crowd of counter-protesters on video. The murder of the brown people on the train up in Oregon(?) was a right winger. The girl in the Bay Area who was executed at the train station, that was a right winger. That's just in the past year, but I really could go on. What does the left have? Antifa, who you seem to indict more than the people they go against a.k.a the white nationalists (to be polite) and to make it seem like Antifa is going out beating up random people is being dishonest. They only come out when the white supremacists come out. Unite the Right 2017, hundreds of people turned out for the event. Unite the Right 2018, literally less than 30 people showed up. Why? Because the left showed them that shit wasn't okay. If we let it rock in 2017, I'm sure the turnout this year would have been even bigger but the left fought against it and those right wingers gave it a second thought when the time came and stayed home.

 

Then you say that the left attacks its own many times. Isn't that a good thing? You can't talk about tribalism but then criticize us for keeping each other in check. The blind tribalism is definitely 90% on the right, you gotta admit that. On the left, the REAL leftists *censored*ing hate establishment democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Booker and Schumer and whoever which is why you see a wave of progressives like AOC, Cynthia Nixon and Andrew Gillum make more noise now. On the right, Roy Moore was almost the governor of Alabama because fellow Republicans endorsed him regardless of how much of a sicko he was. There is so much video evidence of Sean Hannity flipping his positions on certain policies based on who the president is at the time. There are videos of people interviewing Trumpers at rallies, and you hear them say the most cult-like shit because none of them feel he does anything wrong ever, many of them think that everything Trump does is the plan of God himself. Real leftists chew up Obama for his terrible foreign policy and high deportation numbers among other things, you won't hear that from the right about their own too often. So I ask you, which would you rather have, the side that is honest with itself or the side that's shamelessly hypocritical on too many occasions?

 

As frustrating as it may be to see some people you like be called out or whatever the case may be, I think it has to happen. It's the same thing as people not wanting to know what hotdogs are made of, you don't wanna see your favorite people be outed as racists and rapists and whatever else because that means they might have to stop doing that thing you like. I'm sorry, but that's a small price to pay for a better society in my opinion. The #MeToo movement exposed so many people and showed that men abusing their power like that is unacceptable, now things will be different moving forward because of it. And back to the whole tribalism thing, a lot of those men were self-identified liberals and leftists still got em up outta here. If you really consider yourself outside the spectrum, then you know the right wing would not do the same if those guys were Republicans. All these movements bring awareness and if fighting for a better society is what got Trump elected then I will take that charge. Also, I keep saying this because it bothers me so much. I didn't quote it but you told M3J something like "if we stop calling people racists, then racism will go away". I see that so many times and have yet to see an explanation for why that's true. And for some reason, that logic ONLY applies to racism. I've never seen anything like "if we stop calling people rapists, the rape will stop" and I think that's because people who say that downplay the existence of racism like it's just this meaningless gnat instead of something that affects many people. So then is the inverse true? Like if somebody said "if we stop calling them ignorant *Censored*s, then maybe black people will go away" would that be true? And you said something like "it's racism and fascism under the guise of anti-racism and anti-fascism" and I would love to know what you mean by that. Until then, my last point about racism is that white supremacy and racism isn't just the snarling rhetoric, the tiki torches and the white hoods. Why do that when you can hide in plain sight and be a regular member of society? You don't even have to identify as a white supremacist to fall on the same side of race issues.

 

 

 

Policy/ Economics

 

Now real quick let's talk left vs. right on policy and economics. If you only listen to the very loud and obnoxious #ImWithHer #TheResistance people, then I can understand why you think the problems you listed were the only things the left has against the right. I don't like those people either because I bet they'll shutup once Trump is impeached or just not in office. They just want somebody who is nice which is why they love Bush now because he isn't Trump or are remembering McCain as a human rights activist. If you look past those people, you will find leftist who have actual substantive things to say. Quick summary of republican economic policy: boom/bust. The kings and queens of unsustainable financial growth. Deregulate and cut taxes until everything feels great and then it crashes. Rinse, repeat. Trump and republicans will use the stock market and unemployment as indicators of how good the economy is but actual economists will tell you that those are never good indicators of how the economy is doing, and if history is as reliable as she usually is, we are on our way to busting into a recession, so buckle up. 50% of Americans make less than 50K a year, 40% of Americans struggle to pay for at least one basic need (that was from Fox News btw), wages are stagnant, people don't have healthcare. Republicans for some reason still believe in trickle-down economics when the richest people keep showing them they have very little interest in putting that money back into the economy. Let's not forget the greedy imperialist warmongers who love any chance to topple a regime and build a base in a foreign land, or prefer to spend trillions of dollars on fighter jets that do not work. Endless war costs so much money.

 

Let's look at the left. America wants to call itself a meritocracy? Fine, let's make sure everyone's basic needs are met and barring catastrophe, wherever they go from there is based on merit. In the richest country in the world, poverty should be damn near non-existent, I shouldn't see veterans begging me for money on my way to class. No one should be paying $100K for a heart attack, kids should be in schools that aren't falling apart, and a whole city should not be without clean water for three years and counting. GASP...socialism. That's the thing about leftist policy, we want to help EVERYBODY while the right wing only really cares about the wealthy. When the term socialism comes up, Republicans not-so-slyly mention Venezuela. Every single time. Now without getting into the US' involvement in the state of Venezuela, Republicans conveniently leave out the dozens of countries in which these basic socialist policies thrive in. Places like Sweden where there are literally polls saying that most people are generally happy and it's mostly because they're not in some kinda debt or financial trouble. That's what happens when you don't have to pay for school or healthcare because the country isn't tied up in unnecessary wars. The last military budget increase could have funded college for every American. Imagine not having constantly-climbing student loan debt.

 

Now healthcare should really be a no-brainer and the arguments against Medicare-for-all grow more and more senseless. It feels like America is only against it for the sake of being different, regardless of the benefits it brings. Business owners should love it considering they wouldn't have to provide insurance to their employees and they can instead use the money to pay them more in wages, which would give them more money to put back into the economy so that it can grow in a more sustainable way. "But what about the waiting list? We'd have to ration care." Yes but we would ration it based on need instead of wallet size. So if you NEED immediate care, you would get it and it wouldn't put you in crippling debt afterwards. "Who's paying the doctors?" I don't know, who's paying police officers and firefighters and other emergency personnel?

 

The common question from Republicans is always "how are we gonna pay for this stuff that undoubtedly helps the American people as a whole?" but they never ask that when the government drops another bombshell military budget increase to strengthen the strongest military in the entire world or when we start bombing a brand new middle-eastern country or when we cut taxes for the rich which people for some reason forget costs hella money (also the last tax cut had 87% of its benefits go to the top 1% of the country and Republicans pushed for it) or when we talk about this damn wall or the Space Force or ICE, you know, all the shit that helps pretty much nobody. Even if you hate taxes, if you're gonna pay them, wouldn't you rather your money go to things that visibly help the people in our country? When the Lebron school news came you were giddy at the idea of voluntarism showing itself through Mr. James, but it is very naive to think people will regularly do what Lebron did. NOBODY would go to school in a society like that. It's cheaper and makes more sense for everybody to pay a little into something that helps everybody, don't you think?

 

 

 

I love you. You hit it right on the mark so eloquently, as usual.

 

 

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

Ya know, tbh I don't see Alex Jones as right. I don't see him as anything other than a con.

 

He's with InfoWars, peddles right wing bullshit, and attacks the other side. He may not be a legit right winger, but he's on their side.

 

Or he's smart enough to con the right as they believe and support anything that agrees with them.

 

 

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

https://nypost.com/2015/12/21/nj-police-captain-says-some-muslims-did-celebrate-on-911/

 

Some Muslims does not mean thousands of Muslims. Trump still lied and still divided USA for votes from racists and Islamophobes.

 

^True. I'd say the left has their fare share of cons like Al Sharpton.

The difference is, I've seen more lefties denounce or hold "their own people" responsible. I know a lot of lefties who hate Al Sharpton and see him as someone who cares more about money, and even Lena Dunham has been criticized as being a sexual offender and a hypocrite. The only time the right ever hold their own accountable is if the person expresses a non-conservative opinion, like Tomi being pro-choice instead of government trying to ban abortion (isn't that a proper republican way, not wanting the government involved?).

 

Though, Hillary Clinton got the opposite. Went from being unpopular and grudgingly chosen to being loved and seen as a hero.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/01/an-appalling-robocall-racism-invades-floridas-governors-race-second-time-this-week/

 

I dont see how people can see this and see people harass David Hogg and then think leftists are more destructive. How many times do we have to see right wingers spin shit like this or try and do damage control for these types of stories?

You'd have to be pretty biased or really hate the left to think they're more destructive or divisive than the right, truth be told. If the right held their own as accountable as they hold the left, then maybe the right would have fewer issues. I think there was even data saying more right wingers have killed people than Muslims in the US.

 

Hell, people like Kaitlyn Bennett or whatever her name is keeps harping on and on about how the liberals/left suck and are sensitive pussy snowflakes and how much they love their guns and all that shit.

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Well for starters I'll say that both sides can be destructive in their own way. And I won't get into politicians on either side because they're really two sides of the same coin. Where this shows is in the party themselves. The social and economical agenda of both sides are what I'll focus on. The people doing the work on behalf of their parties.

 

 

 

The truth is the parties are transforming into something far worse and less tolerable than before. As politics takes shape in every facet of our lives now and becomes more polarized, each side has resorted to distorted viewpoints about one another. Social media has helped make this a reality much quicker. Both sides resort to ad hominems and alienating, doubling down on their strategies to paint the opposite in a certain manner. Sometimes true, most of the times false or exaggerated. This goes double for the left though.

 

I'll try and make this as quick as I can for now because I've been working. Can fill in stuff later. I know I'll leave a bit out here and there but there is a lot to this. You'll find the same tactics and rhetoric on both the left and right but just different points of view. The same arguments the left makes on gun control is the same arguments the right makes on abortion. The same shit the left says to defend abortion can be made to defend gun control. It just comes down to what side you fall on. Economically and policy wise it depends on how you fall on which side begins to pull away into la la land. Those on the right that wants the wall and says stupid shit like "the Mexicans took our jobs" is a major problem that many begin to regurgitate. Then there are the ones that will back Trump no matter what. They are bad yes, but just as equally as shit as the ones that attack him no matter what. The dude is obviously not the best person. And it's perfectly fine to not like his demeanor and rhetoric. He's not the most articulate guy anyway. But to say the dude is evil or one of the most evil human beings is a bit of a stretch. Demagogue? Yes. Most of them are, but to say he's just full blown evil and a tyrant is being overly dramatic. I heard the same shit said about Obama on the right too by the way. On the left you have those that want more social programs, heavier tax burdens, and higher wages in low wage jobs. Even if you aren't a socialist on the left, you usually are for social programs and higher taxes. So both sides have their groups living outside in fantasy land. Both sides are for more spending depending on the cause but more social programs will always lead to more issues than anything.

 

When you get to the left, socially. That is where it's just ad hominem after ad hominem. More so than the right. They have this idea that Trump and the right is tearing this country apart. I have a little news for them. The left are the ones that are tearing it all apart. You can't thank nazis and white supremacists or rednecks or even Russia for Trump. You can thank the left. They have done everything they can for the last few years to flip everything upside down. Calling people racists and nazis for not agreeing with them may make them feel better in the moment but does very little to change minds. Especially if you have no facts to back it up. The left is self destructive too. Even attacking their own many times. Sometimes they forget what they're even fighting for I guess. And I've seen some pretty hardcore statists on the right but not near the level of the left. The level of facism on the left is astonishing and I don't think people actually understand the meaning of fascism when they use the term. Kind of like them misusing and overusing Nazi and white supremacist. By the way, there isn't enough tiki torchers here to fill an arena. The left is using them like a boogeyman the same way the right used Osama Bin Laden to go to war. If you think for one second that White Supremacists are going to take over the country then you need a time out. There is no reality where they actually pose a threat or where we are going to adopt those ideals lol. Antifa has done far more damage than tiki torchers and have used actual fascism. People on the left whether it's at rallies, colleges, or in the media do nothing but spread hate and propaganda and act like mindless yelling drones. Socially they are destructive. They are the most self destructive. And, they have been the most violent and intolerant. SJW's are a huge problem in about every form of our entertainment now. Interfering for the sake of doing so. In order to be the next whistleblower or start a new movement. They wake up waiting to be offended by something.

 

I'd also like to mention that the left I'm speaking of is THE left as we know it today. They have been completely hijacked by people you don't want to represent you. I'm not singling anyone out nor am I saying it's everyone on the left. Same reason I won't do it for the right. But what each party is doing is reaching extreme levels to oppose one another and I'm just saying that those extremes are worse on the left. And If you're holding on to what the left and progressives were and should be then you need to at least acknowledge that that no longer applies in the party now as a whole. Maybe at one point, but it isn't your party anymore. Hasn't been for some time. It's now the party of censorship and self righteousness. It's pro racism and fascism in the disguise of anti racism and anti fascism. It's SJW's. They have done more to divide and piss off than anyone and if you want someone to point fingers at for the birth of Trump and 4chan then you may need to start looking at what the hijacked left has become. No one should excuse the right but you can't ignore how bad the left has become. Unless you're good with all of it I guess. Many experts are discussing how bad it has become. The proof is out there.

 

 

I actually wanted to properly respond to this now that I'm at my computer. This is really well put and easy to argue with.

 

First off, you are absolutely correct about the left and our ad hominem attacks. We hurl a lot of insults, definitely more than the right. We don't need to because we have more than enough substance to get our points across formally. However, I definitely don't think all of the attacks are unfounded.

 

I don't know if you were trying to make a direct comparison between the gun control and abortion debates, but I really hope not because they are pretty incomparable. The only real similarity is that both deal with death in some way, but it really depends on if you consider the organism inside a womb a life the same way you would consider a victim of gun violence a life. I happen not to but that's a different argument for a different day.

 

Social

 

Let's talk socially. If we're gonna bring up violence then we have to be honest here. There are many more instances of right wingers murdering and hurting people out here than lefties. Most of these infamous mass shooters as of late have been right wingers. I can't think of any one of them that haven't been exposed as some right wing lunatic after they've been caught or killed. Unite the Right 2017, a right winger drives his car into a crowd and kills Heather Heyer on video, three right wingers are going to jail for almost killing Deandre Harris on video, a guy literally shoots his pistol into a crowd of counter-protesters on video. The murder of the brown people on the train up in Oregon(?) was a right winger. The girl in the Bay Area who was executed at the train station, that was a right winger. That's just in the past year, but I really could go on. What does the left have? Antifa, who you seem to indict more than the people they go against a.k.a the white nationalists (to be polite) and to make it seem like Antifa is going out beating up random people is being dishonest. They only come out when the white supremacists come out. Unite the Right 2017, hundreds of people turned out for the event. Unite the Right 2018, literally less than 30 people showed up. Why? Because the left showed them that shit wasn't okay. If we let it rock in 2017, I'm sure the turnout this year would have been even bigger but the left fought against it and those right wingers gave it a second thought when the time came and stayed home.

 

Then you say that the left attacks its own many times. Isn't that a good thing? You can't talk about tribalism but then criticize us for keeping each other in check. The blind tribalism is definitely 90% on the right, you gotta admit that. On the left, the REAL leftists *censored*ing hate establishment democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Booker and Schumer and whoever which is why you see a wave of progressives like AOC, Cynthia Nixon and Andrew Gillum make more noise now. On the right, Roy Moore was almost the governor of Alabama because fellow Republicans endorsed him regardless of how much of a sicko he was. There is so much video evidence of Sean Hannity flipping his positions on certain policies based on who the president is at the time. There are videos of people interviewing Trumpers at rallies, and you hear them say the most cult-like shit because none of them feel he does anything wrong ever, many of them think that everything Trump does is the plan of God himself. Real leftists chew up Obama for his terrible foreign policy and high deportation numbers among other things, you won't hear that from the right about their own too often. So I ask you, which would you rather have, the side that is honest with itself or the side that's shamelessly hypocritical on too many occasions?

 

As frustrating as it may be to see some people you like be called out or whatever the case may be, I think it has to happen. It's the same thing as people not wanting to know what hotdogs are made of, you don't wanna see your favorite people be outed as racists and rapists and whatever else because that means they might have to stop doing that thing you like. I'm sorry, but that's a small price to pay for a better society in my opinion. The #MeToo movement exposed so many people and showed that men abusing their power like that is unacceptable, now things will be different moving forward because of it. And back to the whole tribalism thing, a lot of those men were self-identified liberals and leftists still got em up outta here. If you really consider yourself outside the spectrum, then you know the right wing would not do the same if those guys were Republicans. All these movements bring awareness and if fighting for a better society is what got Trump elected then I will take that charge. Also, I keep saying this because it bothers me so much. I didn't quote it but you told M3J something like "if we stop calling people racists, then racism will go away". I see that so many times and have yet to see an explanation for why that's true. And for some reason, that logic ONLY applies to racism. I've never seen anything like "if we stop calling people rapists, the rape will stop" and I think that's because people who say that downplay the existence of racism like it's just this meaningless gnat instead of something that affects many people. So then is the inverse true? Like if somebody said "if we stop calling them ignorant *Censored*s, then maybe black people will go away" would that be true? And you said something like "it's racism and fascism under the guise of anti-racism and anti-fascism" and I would love to know what you mean by that. Until then, my last point about racism is that white supremacy and racism isn't just the snarling rhetoric, the tiki torches and the white hoods. Why do that when you can hide in plain sight and be a regular member of society? You don't even have to identify as a white supremacist to fall on the same side of race issues.

 

 

 

Policy/ Economics

 

Now real quick let's talk left vs. right on policy and economics. If you only listen to the very loud and obnoxious #ImWithHer #TheResistance people, then I can understand why you think the problems you listed were the only things the left has against the right. I don't like those people either because I bet they'll shutup once Trump is impeached or just not in office. They just want somebody who is nice which is why they love Bush now because he isn't Trump or are remembering McCain as a human rights activist. If you look past those people, you will find leftist who have actual substantive things to say. Quick summary of republican economic policy: boom/bust. The kings and queens of unsustainable financial growth. Deregulate and cut taxes until everything feels great and then it crashes. Rinse, repeat. Trump and republicans will use the stock market and unemployment as indicators of how good the economy is but actual economists will tell you that those are never good indicators of how the economy is doing, and if history is as reliable as she usually is, we are on our way to busting into a recession, so buckle up. 50% of Americans make less than 50K a year, 40% of Americans struggle to pay for at least one basic need (that was from Fox News btw), wages are stagnant, people don't have healthcare. Republicans for some reason still believe in trickle-down economics when the richest people keep showing them they have very little interest in putting that money back into the economy. Let's not forget the greedy imperialist warmongers who love any chance to topple a regime and build a base in a foreign land, or prefer to spend trillions of dollars on fighter jets that do not work. Endless war costs so much money.

 

Let's look at the left. America wants to call itself a meritocracy? Fine, let's make sure everyone's basic needs are met and barring catastrophe, wherever they go from there is based on merit. In the richest country in the world, poverty should be damn near non-existent, I shouldn't see veterans begging me for money on my way to class. No one should be paying $100K for a heart attack, kids should be in schools that aren't falling apart, and a whole city should not be without clean water for three years and counting. GASP...socialism. That's the thing about leftist policy, we want to help EVERYBODY while the right wing only really cares about the wealthy. When the term socialism comes up, Republicans not-so-slyly mention Venezuela. Every single time. Now without getting into the US' involvement in the state of Venezuela, Republicans conveniently leave out the dozens of countries in which these basic socialist policies thrive in. Places like Sweden where there are literally polls saying that most people are generally happy and it's mostly because they're not in some kinda debt or financial trouble. That's what happens when you don't have to pay for school or healthcare because the country isn't tied up in unnecessary wars. The last military budget increase could have funded college for every American. Imagine not having constantly-climbing student loan debt.

 

Now healthcare should really be a no-brainer and the arguments against Medicare-for-all grow more and more senseless. It feels like America is only against it for the sake of being different, regardless of the benefits it brings. Business owners should love it considering they wouldn't have to provide insurance to their employees and they can instead use the money to pay them more in wages, which would give them more money to put back into the economy so that it can grow in a more sustainable way. "But what about the waiting list? We'd have to ration care." Yes but we would ration it based on need instead of wallet size. So if you NEED immediate care, you would get it and it wouldn't put you in crippling debt afterwards. "Who's paying the doctors?" I don't know, who's paying police officers and firefighters and other emergency personnel?

 

The common question from Republicans is always "how are we gonna pay for this stuff that undoubtedly helps the American people as a whole?" but they never ask that when the government drops another bombshell military budget increase to strengthen the strongest military in the entire world or when we start bombing a brand new middle-eastern country or when we cut taxes for the rich which people for some reason forget costs hella money (also the last tax cut had 87% of its benefits go to the top 1% of the country and Republicans pushed for it) or when we talk about this damn wall or the Space Force or ICE, you know, all the shit that helps pretty much nobody. Even if you hate taxes, if you're gonna pay them, wouldn't you rather your money go to things that visibly help the people in our country? When the Lebron school news came you were giddy at the idea of voluntarism showing itself through Mr. James, but it is very naive to think people will regularly do what Lebron did. NOBODY would go to school in a society like that. It's cheaper and makes more sense for everybody to pay a little into something that helps everybody, don't you think?

 

 

 

I love you. You hit it right on the mark so eloquently, as usual.

 

 

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

Ya know, tbh I don't see Alex Jones as right. I don't see him as anything other than a con.

 

He's with InfoWars, peddles right wing bullshit, and attacks the other side. He may not be a legit right winger, but he's on their side.

 

Or he's smart enough to con the right as they believe and support anything that agrees with them.

 

 

I still don't understand how and why the left and liberals are considered more socially destructive and divisive.

 

Trump basically lied and spread dissent and hatred for votes. He called all Mexicans/illegal immigrants rapists/criminals even though his wife was an illegal immigrant. Threatened to punch Black Lives Matter if they disrupted his rally (Bernie accepted a BLM member and talked to her, if I recall correctly). Said both sides had some fine people when the alt right ran over protestors and killed one, which even got criticism from other conservatives. Claimed he saw Muslims celebrating 9/11 in NYC/NJ areas, which is a lie. This is a very long list.

 

Alex Jones is calling victims and families of school shootings actors and even sued them. I think because of him, the families are even getting death threats. At least one video has been shared of a pro-gun whacko shooting a poster picture of David Hogg.

 

Almost anytime anything bad happens, the right either blame Muslims or blame the left/liberals.

https://nypost.com/2015/12/21/nj-police-captain-says-some-muslims-did-celebrate-on-911/

 

Some Muslims does not mean thousands of Muslims. Trump still lied and still divided USA for votes from racists and Islamophobes.

 

^True. I'd say the left has their fare share of cons like Al Sharpton.

The difference is, I've seen more lefties denounce or hold "their own people" responsible. I know a lot of lefties who hate Al Sharpton and see him as someone who cares more about money, and even Lena Dunham has been criticized as being a sexual offender and a hypocrite. The only time the right ever hold their own accountable is if the person expresses a non-conservative opinion, like Tomi being pro-choice instead of government trying to ban abortion (isn't that a proper republican way, not wanting the government involved?).

 

Though, Hillary Clinton got the opposite. Went from being unpopular and grudgingly chosen to being loved and seen as a hero.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/01/an-appalling-robocall-racism-invades-floridas-governors-race-second-time-this-week/

 

I dont see how people can see this and see people harass David Hogg and then think leftists are more destructive. How many times do we have to see right wingers spin shit like this or try and do damage control for these types of stories?

You'd have to be pretty biased or really hate the left to think they're more destructive or divisive than the right, truth be told. If the right held their own as accountable as they hold the left, then maybe the right would have fewer issues. I think there was even data saying more right wingers have killed people than Muslims in the US.

 

Hell, people like Kaitlyn Bennett or whatever her name is keeps harping on and on about how the liberals/left suck and are sensitive pussy snowflakes and how much they love their guns and all that shit.

 

He never said thousands according to you. Also while I don't like Trump, I do think we started to divide as country before Trump, he just made it worse

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

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Well for starters I'll say that both sides can be destructive in their own way. And I won't get into politicians on either side because they're really two sides of the same coin. Where this shows is in the party themselves. The social and economical agenda of both sides are what I'll focus on. The people doing the work on behalf of their parties.

 

 

 

The truth is the parties are transforming into something far worse and less tolerable than before. As politics takes shape in every facet of our lives now and becomes more polarized, each side has resorted to distorted viewpoints about one another. Social media has helped make this a reality much quicker. Both sides resort to ad hominems and alienating, doubling down on their strategies to paint the opposite in a certain manner. Sometimes true, most of the times false or exaggerated. This goes double for the left though.

 

I'll try and make this as quick as I can for now because I've been working. Can fill in stuff later. I know I'll leave a bit out here and there but there is a lot to this. You'll find the same tactics and rhetoric on both the left and right but just different points of view. The same arguments the left makes on gun control is the same arguments the right makes on abortion. The same shit the left says to defend abortion can be made to defend gun control. It just comes down to what side you fall on. Economically and policy wise it depends on how you fall on which side begins to pull away into la la land. Those on the right that wants the wall and says stupid shit like "the Mexicans took our jobs" is a major problem that many begin to regurgitate. Then there are the ones that will back Trump no matter what. They are bad yes, but just as equally as shit as the ones that attack him no matter what. The dude is obviously not the best person. And it's perfectly fine to not like his demeanor and rhetoric. He's not the most articulate guy anyway. But to say the dude is evil or one of the most evil human beings is a bit of a stretch. Demagogue? Yes. Most of them are, but to say he's just full blown evil and a tyrant is being overly dramatic. I heard the same shit said about Obama on the right too by the way. On the left you have those that want more social programs, heavier tax burdens, and higher wages in low wage jobs. Even if you aren't a socialist on the left, you usually are for social programs and higher taxes. So both sides have their groups living outside in fantasy land. Both sides are for more spending depending on the cause but more social programs will always lead to more issues than anything.

 

When you get to the left, socially. That is where it's just ad hominem after ad hominem. More so than the right. They have this idea that Trump and the right is tearing this country apart. I have a little news for them. The left are the ones that are tearing it all apart. You can't thank nazis and white supremacists or rednecks or even Russia for Trump. You can thank the left. They have done everything they can for the last few years to flip everything upside down. Calling people racists and nazis for not agreeing with them may make them feel better in the moment but does very little to change minds. Especially if you have no facts to back it up. The left is self destructive too. Even attacking their own many times. Sometimes they forget what they're even fighting for I guess. And I've seen some pretty hardcore statists on the right but not near the level of the left. The level of facism on the left is astonishing and I don't think people actually understand the meaning of fascism when they use the term. Kind of like them misusing and overusing Nazi and white supremacist. By the way, there isn't enough tiki torchers here to fill an arena. The left is using them like a boogeyman the same way the right used Osama Bin Laden to go to war. If you think for one second that White Supremacists are going to take over the country then you need a time out. There is no reality where they actually pose a threat or where we are going to adopt those ideals lol. Antifa has done far more damage than tiki torchers and have used actual fascism. People on the left whether it's at rallies, colleges, or in the media do nothing but spread hate and propaganda and act like mindless yelling drones. Socially they are destructive. They are the most self destructive. And, they have been the most violent and intolerant. SJW's are a huge problem in about every form of our entertainment now. Interfering for the sake of doing so. In order to be the next whistleblower or start a new movement. They wake up waiting to be offended by something.

 

I'd also like to mention that the left I'm speaking of is THE left as we know it today. They have been completely hijacked by people you don't want to represent you. I'm not singling anyone out nor am I saying it's everyone on the left. Same reason I won't do it for the right. But what each party is doing is reaching extreme levels to oppose one another and I'm just saying that those extremes are worse on the left. And If you're holding on to what the left and progressives were and should be then you need to at least acknowledge that that no longer applies in the party now as a whole. Maybe at one point, but it isn't your party anymore. Hasn't been for some time. It's now the party of censorship and self righteousness. It's pro racism and fascism in the disguise of anti racism and anti fascism. It's SJW's. They have done more to divide and piss off than anyone and if you want someone to point fingers at for the birth of Trump and 4chan then you may need to start looking at what the hijacked left has become. No one should excuse the right but you can't ignore how bad the left has become. Unless you're good with all of it I guess. Many experts are discussing how bad it has become. The proof is out there.

 

 

I actually wanted to properly respond to this now that I'm at my computer. This is really well put and easy to argue with.

 

First off, you are absolutely correct about the left and our ad hominem attacks. We hurl a lot of insults, definitely more than the right. We don't need to because we have more than enough substance to get our points across formally. However, I definitely don't think all of the attacks are unfounded.

 

I don't know if you were trying to make a direct comparison between the gun control and abortion debates, but I really hope not because they are pretty incomparable. The only real similarity is that both deal with death in some way, but it really depends on if you consider the organism inside a womb a life the same way you would consider a victim of gun violence a life. I happen not to but that's a different argument for a different day.

 

Social

 

Let's talk socially. If we're gonna bring up violence then we have to be honest here. There are many more instances of right wingers murdering and hurting people out here than lefties. Most of these infamous mass shooters as of late have been right wingers. I can't think of any one of them that haven't been exposed as some right wing lunatic after they've been caught or killed. Unite the Right 2017, a right winger drives his car into a crowd and kills Heather Heyer on video, three right wingers are going to jail for almost killing Deandre Harris on video, a guy literally shoots his pistol into a crowd of counter-protesters on video. The murder of the brown people on the train up in Oregon(?) was a right winger. The girl in the Bay Area who was executed at the train station, that was a right winger. That's just in the past year, but I really could go on. What does the left have? Antifa, who you seem to indict more than the people they go against a.k.a the white nationalists (to be polite) and to make it seem like Antifa is going out beating up random people is being dishonest. They only come out when the white supremacists come out. Unite the Right 2017, hundreds of people turned out for the event. Unite the Right 2018, literally less than 30 people showed up. Why? Because the left showed them that shit wasn't okay. If we let it rock in 2017, I'm sure the turnout this year would have been even bigger but the left fought against it and those right wingers gave it a second thought when the time came and stayed home.

 

Then you say that the left attacks its own many times. Isn't that a good thing? You can't talk about tribalism but then criticize us for keeping each other in check. The blind tribalism is definitely 90% on the right, you gotta admit that. On the left, the REAL leftists *censored*ing hate establishment democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Booker and Schumer and whoever which is why you see a wave of progressives like AOC, Cynthia Nixon and Andrew Gillum make more noise now. On the right, Roy Moore was almost the governor of Alabama because fellow Republicans endorsed him regardless of how much of a sicko he was. There is so much video evidence of Sean Hannity flipping his positions on certain policies based on who the president is at the time. There are videos of people interviewing Trumpers at rallies, and you hear them say the most cult-like shit because none of them feel he does anything wrong ever, many of them think that everything Trump does is the plan of God himself. Real leftists chew up Obama for his terrible foreign policy and high deportation numbers among other things, you won't hear that from the right about their own too often. So I ask you, which would you rather have, the side that is honest with itself or the side that's shamelessly hypocritical on too many occasions?

 

As frustrating as it may be to see some people you like be called out or whatever the case may be, I think it has to happen. It's the same thing as people not wanting to know what hotdogs are made of, you don't wanna see your favorite people be outed as racists and rapists and whatever else because that means they might have to stop doing that thing you like. I'm sorry, but that's a small price to pay for a better society in my opinion. The #MeToo movement exposed so many people and showed that men abusing their power like that is unacceptable, now things will be different moving forward because of it. And back to the whole tribalism thing, a lot of those men were self-identified liberals and leftists still got em up outta here. If you really consider yourself outside the spectrum, then you know the right wing would not do the same if those guys were Republicans. All these movements bring awareness and if fighting for a better society is what got Trump elected then I will take that charge. Also, I keep saying this because it bothers me so much. I didn't quote it but you told M3J something like "if we stop calling people racists, then racism will go away". I see that so many times and have yet to see an explanation for why that's true. And for some reason, that logic ONLY applies to racism. I've never seen anything like "if we stop calling people rapists, the rape will stop" and I think that's because people who say that downplay the existence of racism like it's just this meaningless gnat instead of something that affects many people. So then is the inverse true? Like if somebody said "if we stop calling them ignorant *Censored*s, then maybe black people will go away" would that be true? And you said something like "it's racism and fascism under the guise of anti-racism and anti-fascism" and I would love to know what you mean by that. Until then, my last point about racism is that white supremacy and racism isn't just the snarling rhetoric, the tiki torches and the white hoods. Why do that when you can hide in plain sight and be a regular member of society? You don't even have to identify as a white supremacist to fall on the same side of race issues.

 

 

 

Policy/ Economics

 

Now real quick let's talk left vs. right on policy and economics. If you only listen to the very loud and obnoxious #ImWithHer #TheResistance people, then I can understand why you think the problems you listed were the only things the left has against the right. I don't like those people either because I bet they'll shutup once Trump is impeached or just not in office. They just want somebody who is nice which is why they love Bush now because he isn't Trump or are remembering McCain as a human rights activist. If you look past those people, you will find leftist who have actual substantive things to say. Quick summary of republican economic policy: boom/bust. The kings and queens of unsustainable financial growth. Deregulate and cut taxes until everything feels great and then it crashes. Rinse, repeat. Trump and republicans will use the stock market and unemployment as indicators of how good the economy is but actual economists will tell you that those are never good indicators of how the economy is doing, and if history is as reliable as she usually is, we are on our way to busting into a recession, so buckle up. 50% of Americans make less than 50K a year, 40% of Americans struggle to pay for at least one basic need (that was from Fox News btw), wages are stagnant, people don't have healthcare. Republicans for some reason still believe in trickle-down economics when the richest people keep showing them they have very little interest in putting that money back into the economy. Let's not forget the greedy imperialist warmongers who love any chance to topple a regime and build a base in a foreign land, or prefer to spend trillions of dollars on fighter jets that do not work. Endless war costs so much money.

 

Let's look at the left. America wants to call itself a meritocracy? Fine, let's make sure everyone's basic needs are met and barring catastrophe, wherever they go from there is based on merit. In the richest country in the world, poverty should be damn near non-existent, I shouldn't see veterans begging me for money on my way to class. No one should be paying $100K for a heart attack, kids should be in schools that aren't falling apart, and a whole city should not be without clean water for three years and counting. GASP...socialism. That's the thing about leftist policy, we want to help EVERYBODY while the right wing only really cares about the wealthy. When the term socialism comes up, Republicans not-so-slyly mention Venezuela. Every single time. Now without getting into the US' involvement in the state of Venezuela, Republicans conveniently leave out the dozens of countries in which these basic socialist policies thrive in. Places like Sweden where there are literally polls saying that most people are generally happy and it's mostly because they're not in some kinda debt or financial trouble. That's what happens when you don't have to pay for school or healthcare because the country isn't tied up in unnecessary wars. The last military budget increase could have funded college for every American. Imagine not having constantly-climbing student loan debt.

 

Now healthcare should really be a no-brainer and the arguments against Medicare-for-all grow more and more senseless. It feels like America is only against it for the sake of being different, regardless of the benefits it brings. Business owners should love it considering they wouldn't have to provide insurance to their employees and they can instead use the money to pay them more in wages, which would give them more money to put back into the economy so that it can grow in a more sustainable way. "But what about the waiting list? We'd have to ration care." Yes but we would ration it based on need instead of wallet size. So if you NEED immediate care, you would get it and it wouldn't put you in crippling debt afterwards. "Who's paying the doctors?" I don't know, who's paying police officers and firefighters and other emergency personnel?

 

The common question from Republicans is always "how are we gonna pay for this stuff that undoubtedly helps the American people as a whole?" but they never ask that when the government drops another bombshell military budget increase to strengthen the strongest military in the entire world or when we start bombing a brand new middle-eastern country or when we cut taxes for the rich which people for some reason forget costs hella money (also the last tax cut had 87% of its benefits go to the top 1% of the country and Republicans pushed for it) or when we talk about this damn wall or the Space Force or ICE, you know, all the shit that helps pretty much nobody. Even if you hate taxes, if you're gonna pay them, wouldn't you rather your money go to things that visibly help the people in our country? When the Lebron school news came you were giddy at the idea of voluntarism showing itself through Mr. James, but it is very naive to think people will regularly do what Lebron did. NOBODY would go to school in a society like that. It's cheaper and makes more sense for everybody to pay a little into something that helps everybody, don't you think?

 

 

 

I actually agree with you on quite a bit there. But there's some things I don't.

 

First, I wouldn't call it keeping each other in check. The same things you say about the left or the "real" left as you put it are few and far between. I will agree the right won't roll over on their own most of the time but I've seen the same out of the left. And I've seen as many Bernie bros defend him and his policies to the end without any knowledge of what it actually means, as I have Trumpers standing by him no matter what. It is blind tribalism for the left too. There isn't left wingers keeping each other in check. It's just posturing and yelling at one another or yelling at the other side. They're not consistent. They are attacking their own because they are running out of things to bitch about and no one wants to be upstaged. Hell there's been riffs between gays and transgenders over that shit. There's just a bunch of people trying to whistleblow whatever bullshit they can and get people fired and shit. It's not that people weren't aware. It's that no one was going to do anything about it. Now you'll have a few people go down and a few that don't deserve it get caught in the crossfire, and then life will go on and nothing really change. You don't think there aren't other Harvey Weinsteins in Hollywood? There's tons of them. And nothing will happen to them. Hell over half of Hollywood will continue to stand behind it in secret and not do anything about it. They already are. And most of them are all on the left. So no, I don't agree that anyone is keeping each other in check. In Hollywood nor in Washington. Sure as hell not on college Campuses and protest rallies. It's all tribalism. They're finger pointing to take the heat off of them. Plus it's easier to do that than talk about issues with real facts no one actually has. When you only know rhetoric what else can you do I guess. Just better to try and discredit people and call them bigots. It's already proven to work for most. My biggest thing I see way more on the left, is that it seems to be more about suppressing speech and ideals that aren't their own. That's more destructive than anything else, socially. Add the ad hominem screech fests and you've just heightened it 10 fold.

 

Now economically, I understand why they are teaching the economic boom/bust point of view. It's done in a way that makes sense and seems to get through to a lot of people in college. Only problem is, it never works the way people think it does. If you're cutting taxes and deregulating businesses and programs then you helping the economy and we are overall spending less. That does not spell doom for the economy. That's not how that works. If you pay less in taxes that means you keep more of your money and can use it to live better or put into the economy by buying goods and services. If companies pay less or are regulated less than they can afford to pay their employees more and expand. Now some won't but allowing the government to regulate or force them to do so is 100% not the way to go about it. If you want to discuss monopolies then you can look at government for allowing such things to go on. They are in bed with them. So wanting the government (the biggest monopoly) to regulate business and tax it's people more but also continue to monopolize is the most asinine thing to do. As far as a bust goes and all the talk of warmongering and military spending and toppling land and people, I agree with totally. We shouldn't be doing that shit either and I agree that we'll fall into another recession again at some point. We can't sustain this. I agree we shouldn't be pumping more money and funding into the military but we shouldn't be pumping more money into the other shit either. We are not entitled to basic shit. We do not have a right to healthcare and a right to live. At least not off the taxpayer money and government control. They're not suppose to supply us with healthcare and water and food and other shit like that. On the other hand they are not suppose to regulate, tax, or block our resources either.

 

I'd also be careful about using the nordic system as a platform and calling it socialism. It's not actually socialism. Kind of proves to me that people just believe anything Bernie or their college professor says. That system is free market capitalism but with a heavy tax state. The major problem with trying to apply that system to ours is that they nordic countries are like the size of Texas for one. It wouldn't apply the same here. But two, you eventually will run out of other people's money. Heavy tax burden has been statistically been proven to hurt economies. And it will always fall on the middle class to fund the programs people want. It will not work here for that reason. And yes I'm all for voluntarism but it's not for us to decide what others do with their money and you still can't force them through any means especially government. Also noticed that Lebron's school isn't all voluntarism though. It's also being funded by taxpayers. So really not as cool as it sounded in the beginning. Still a public school. Anyway I agree with you on many things but I just can't on some of this. Taxation is not being taught in a proper way and people still have this idea that more leads to better things. Just not the case. And these ideas about more universal programs are great in theory and I have no doubt that people's hearts are in the right place but it's just not how the world works and it's simply not sustainable. No matter how much people want it to be so.

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Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

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Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

The way it was pointed out before I did research was people saying this was all him and donations. Come to find out it's still being payed by taxpayers. More than usual or not is irrelevant. If this was funded by non government entities and ran on donations and Lebron's charity without taxpayers, it might not seem as bad. Probably just the way it was reported or spread and come to find out it was wrong.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

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And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

C'mon mate. You're just arguing for arguing sake. I care about this issue and if someone were to get into a debate with me about the whole issue. It would most definitely be one-sided. Dude got the ok from a vet to kneel to address the issue that most wouldn't confront. As for Nike, they had a choice to release him or not while he was still under contract with them since 2011. They chose to keep him one maybe because they knew other shoe companies would've snatched him up and/or two this is something they do care about. To say whether or not it was out of goodwill or opportunity to make him the face of it is up for you, me and everyone else to decide.

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And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

C'mon mate. You're just arguing for arguing sake. I care about this issue and if someone were to get into a debate with me about the whole issue. It would most definitely be one-sided. Dude got the ok from a vet to kneel to address the issue that most wouldn't confront. As for Nike, they had a choice to release him or not while he was still under contract with them since 2011. They chose to keep him one maybe because they knew other shoe companies would've snatched him up and/or two this is something they do care about. To say whether or not it was out of goodwill or opportunity to make him the face of it is up for you, me and everyone else to decide.

 

Okay... :cool:

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And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

C'mon mate. You're just arguing for arguing sake. I care about this issue and if someone were to get into a debate with me about the whole issue. It would most definitely be one-sided. Dude got the ok from a vet to kneel to address the issue that most wouldn't confront. As for Nike, they had a choice to release him or not while he was still under contract with them since 2011. They chose to keep him one maybe because they knew other shoe companies would've snatched him up and/or two this is something they do care about. To say whether or not it was out of goodwill or opportunity to make him the face of it is up for you, me and everyone else to decide.

 

 

So do you only stand behind Kaepernick in regards to him kneeling? Or do you also believe he's done nothing wrong to warrant him being out of the league? Because wither I agree or disagree that he should be in the NFL right now or not, surely we can both agree that he hasn't done himself any favors?

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Kneeling for the anthem is no disrespect to the country; It's a form of quiet reflection, which is fine.

 

It only became an issue because it was an easy thing for republicans to spin into something they could be offended about. Which is...hilarious, since we're talking about the people who call others "sensitive" or "snowflakes" for way less.

 

And now these people are out here talking about burning shoes.

 

Let me just repeat that, because it bears repeating...

 

People are talking about burning their shoes, because a man knelt on a football field...and they do this while telling other people that they're "snowflakes" for wanting to protect the environment, or trying to keep guns out of schools, or suggesting that it's not okay to call people the "f" word for being gay, or that women shouldn't be harassed just for being women...or any number of the completely rational and reasonable things for people to care about on a deeper level than whether a football man sits on a field, or whether Starbucks says "Merry Christmas" on their paper cups.

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Kneeling for the anthem is no disrespect to the country; It's a form of quiet reflection, which is fine.

 

It only became an issue because it was an easy thing for republicans to spin into something they could be offended about. Which is...hilarious, since we're talking about the people who call others "sensitive" or "snowflakes" for way less.

 

And now these people are out here talking about burning shoes.

 

Let me just repeat that, because it bears repeating...

 

People are talking about burning their shoes, because a man knelt on a football field...and they do this while telling other people that they're "snowflakes" for wanting to protect the environment, or trying to keep guns out of schools, or suggesting that it's not okay to call people the "f" word for being gay, or that women shouldn't be harassed just for being women...or any number of the completely rational and reasonable things for people to care about on a deeper level than whether a football man sits on a field, or whether Starbucks says "Merry Christmas" on their paper cups.

Absolutely ridiculous isn't it?

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

 

That's interesting, and it'd be a red flag as well.

 

 

Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

The way it was pointed out before I did research was people saying this was all him and donations. Come to find out it's still being payed by taxpayers. More than usual or not is irrelevant. If this was funded by non government entities and ran on donations and Lebron's charity without taxpayers, it might not seem as bad. Probably just the way it was reported or spread and come to find out it was wrong.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

 

if it was completely funded by non-government entities, then it'd become a private school, which would probably not help as many kids. The way this is being reported, one can assume it's either due to LeBron hate or hate that he's helping tons of underprivileged kids, especially with free tuition to University of Akron. This is one of the very few things no one should be complaining about, as long as the kids get proper education, are treated well, and teachers get sufficient pay.

 

I've seen some left wingers and liberals actually point out the irony in Nike's ad and reminded people of Nike's irony. Not as many people are eating this up as one would assume, but they appreciate Kaepernick for willing to deal with backlash. I'm amused you called him asshole though, when he's done more for communities than most politicians.

 

Ah, typical blaming both sides even when the left and liberals have done nothing but defend Kaepernick, as far as I know. It's mostly the right raising a ruckus over this and refusing to listen to anything, even when some of the military people correct them. The real truth is, the right wingers don't want to listen, and they don't care. If Kaepernick was kneeling for white supremacy instead of for black lives, then I'm 99% sure the right wouldn't complain.

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

That's interesting, and it'd be a red flag as well.

 

 

Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

The way it was pointed out before I did research was people saying this was all him and donations. Come to find out it's still being payed by taxpayers. More than usual or not is irrelevant. If this was funded by non government entities and ran on donations and Lebron's charity without taxpayers, it might not seem as bad. Probably just the way it was reported or spread and come to find out it was wrong.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

if it was completely funded by non-government entities, then it'd become a private school, which would probably not help as many kids. The way this is being reported, one can assume it's either due to LeBron hate or hate that he's helping tons of underprivileged kids, especially with free tuition to University of Akron. This is one of the very few things no one should be complaining about, as long as the kids get proper education, are treated well, and teachers get sufficient pay.

 

I've seen some left wingers and liberals actually point out the irony in Nike's ad and reminded people of Nike's irony. Not as many people are eating this up as one would assume, but they appreciate Kaepernick for willing to deal with backlash. I'm amused you called him asshole though, when he's done more for communities than most politicians.

 

Ah, typical blaming both sides even when the left and liberals have done nothing but defend Kaepernick, as far as I know. It's mostly the right raising a ruckus over this and refusing to listen to anything, even when some of the military people correct them. The real truth is, the right wingers don't want to listen, and they don't care. If Kaepernick was kneeling for white supremacy instead of for black lives, then I'm 99% sure the right wouldn't complain.

Dude just stop lol. Not everyone is the white supremacist boogeyman. And it does fall on both sides. You're just too much at times you know that?

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

That's interesting, and it'd be a red flag as well.

 

 

Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

The way it was pointed out before I did research was people saying this was all him and donations. Come to find out it's still being payed by taxpayers. More than usual or not is irrelevant. If this was funded by non government entities and ran on donations and Lebron's charity without taxpayers, it might not seem as bad. Probably just the way it was reported or spread and come to find out it was wrong.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

if it was completely funded by non-government entities, then it'd become a private school, which would probably not help as many kids. The way this is being reported, one can assume it's either due to LeBron hate or hate that he's helping tons of underprivileged kids, especially with free tuition to University of Akron. This is one of the very few things no one should be complaining about, as long as the kids get proper education, are treated well, and teachers get sufficient pay.

 

I've seen some left wingers and liberals actually point out the irony in Nike's ad and reminded people of Nike's irony. Not as many people are eating this up as one would assume, but they appreciate Kaepernick for willing to deal with backlash. I'm amused you called him asshole though, when he's done more for communities than most politicians.

 

Ah, typical blaming both sides even when the left and liberals have done nothing but defend Kaepernick, as far as I know. It's mostly the right raising a ruckus over this and refusing to listen to anything, even when some of the military people correct them. The real truth is, the right wingers don't want to listen, and they don't care. If Kaepernick was kneeling for white supremacy instead of for black lives, then I'm 99% sure the right wouldn't complain.

Stormy Daniels already kneeled (with both knees) and the conservatives dont seem to mind at all.

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

That's interesting, and it'd be a red flag as well.

 

Taxpayers apparently aren't paying more than usual.

 

https://www.theroot.com/people-are-actually-hating-on-lebron-james-i-promise-sc-1828171010

 

Also, if the school got more funding from non-government entities, then it'd become a private school. Main reason people are complaining about this is because they want to make LeBron look bad.

 

 

Also to further prove how the right are more divisive/socially destructive, they're getting mad at Nike for showing Kaepernick in an ad and vow to boycott Nike or some shit. I mean, Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling out of respect to the troops and made it perfectly clear that he's kneeling to bring awareness to how black people are mistreated, but it won't stop mostly the right wingers from making it about the Anthem and the troops (that they do nothing to help). These people and Blue/All Lives Matter don't even bother to listen to the other side, they just pretend it's about something that it's not.

 

Somehow though, the left are the problem. Weird logic.

The way it was pointed out before I did research was people saying this was all him and donations. Come to find out it's still being payed by taxpayers. More than usual or not is irrelevant. If this was funded by non government entities and ran on donations and Lebron's charity without taxpayers, it might not seem as bad. Probably just the way it was reported or spread and come to find out it was wrong.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

if it was completely funded by non-government entities, then it'd become a private school, which would probably not help as many kids. The way this is being reported, one can assume it's either due to LeBron hate or hate that he's helping tons of underprivileged kids, especially with free tuition to University of Akron. This is one of the very few things no one should be complaining about, as long as the kids get proper education, are treated well, and teachers get sufficient pay.

 

I've seen some left wingers and liberals actually point out the irony in Nike's ad and reminded people of Nike's irony. Not as many people are eating this up as one would assume, but they appreciate Kaepernick for willing to deal with backlash. I'm amused you called him asshole though, when he's done more for communities than most politicians.

 

Ah, typical blaming both sides even when the left and liberals have done nothing but defend Kaepernick, as far as I know. It's mostly the right raising a ruckus over this and refusing to listen to anything, even when some of the military people correct them. The real truth is, the right wingers don't want to listen, and they don't care. If Kaepernick was kneeling for white supremacy instead of for black lives, then I'm 99% sure the right wouldn't complain.

Dude just stop lol. Not everyone is the white supremacist boogeyman. And it does fall on both sides. You're just too much at times you know that?

 

Given what you've said in this thread, despite proof and everything, there seems to be no point in discussing this as you seem intent on blaming the left/liberal for everything. You call the left socially destructive and divisive, but evidence and observation would have the right be far more guilty of that. The right will call the left sensitive snowflakes for not accepting bigotry or slurs.

 

Ignorance and privilege truly are a bliss.

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You're right, he said "thousands and thousands," which the link you posted says. If that's even true, but I don't remember any mention of Muslims celebrating 9/11 all those years ago.

 

Yeah, so we basically agree.. However, Trump lied and divided US mostly for votes while others seem to have issues with nonwhites and non-American born citizens.

Actually one kid in our school ( I was in middle school during 9/11), he was bullying people, but he made it known he hated this country (he was from the middle east). Anyway on 9/11 my dad was in New York, not that part but he was originally going to be. So when the teacher announced what happen, the teacher said out loud don't worry your dad is OK. (My dad ended up being their the day before). The kid came up to me the next day, and said yesterday would of even been better if dad was actually their. (I'm mentally disabled so I was always an easy target) but a friend beat up. The kid a few weeks later said some racist stuff a teacher over heard he got suspended. But his parents pulled out of our school altogether.

 

That's interesting, and it'd be a red flag as well.

 

 

 

Yeah, teachers wouldn't listen to students when they told them he was bully. He was kiss ass in class

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And as far as I'm concerned, both sides are complete cancer when it comes to the kneeling and the anthem and all of that. I find it funny given Nike's background and history that so many corporate hating left wing people are eating this up because it's Colin Kaepernick. And it's stupid on Nike's part to showcase an asshole that hasn't played in 3 years and was a garbage player. And lastly, it's stupid on the rights part to cry over a bunch of statist nonsense about the anthem and the flag. Truth is, neither side wants to listen and neither side cares. Both are garbage.

C'mon mate. You're just arguing for arguing sake. I care about this issue and if someone were to get into a debate with me about the whole issue. It would most definitely be one-sided. Dude got the ok from a vet to kneel to address the issue that most wouldn't confront. As for Nike, they had a choice to release him or not while he was still under contract with them since 2011. They chose to keep him one maybe because they knew other shoe companies would've snatched him up and/or two this is something they do care about. To say whether or not it was out of goodwill or opportunity to make him the face of it is up for you, me and everyone else to decide.

So do you only stand behind Kaepernick in regards to him kneeling? Or do you also believe he's done nothing wrong to warrant him being out of the league? Because wither I agree or disagree that he should be in the NFL right now or not, surely we can both agree that he hasn't done himself any favors?

I stand behind what he did. As for football, I don't watch it but I do follow news surrounding it. The very act of kneeling shouldn't have raised such animosity towards him and basically blackball him from the league. It was meant to raise awareness and instead the ignorant/racists decided to take that as a threat toward themselves and the country. Unfortunately, I will have to agree with you that in terms with the league he looks to be on bad terms with them.
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