THQ games vs 2K games

[Muur]

After someone argued till they were blue in the face that 2K is the second coming of God and that THQ were the devil himself, I'm interested in which people preferred. Do note that roster does not count, so saying "2k is better as AJ Styles is in the game" isn't part of it, this is purely gameplay etc

[E#37]

2K.

 

While THQ made some decent games in the past most of the times the aracde gameplay sucked big time compared to what has become 2K17 and what they can build further upon with the following instalments of the series.

[armondwardatl]

After someone argued till they were blue in the face that 2K is the second coming of God and that THQ were the devil himself, I'm interested in which people preferred. Do note that roster does not count, so saying "2k is better as AJ Styles is in the game" isn't part of it, this is purely gameplay etc

 

dude stop. just stop. you're going to embarrass yourself further than you already have

 

You don't get it. you obviously don't know how game development works.

 

1. WWE Approves a roster not a development company

2. If said person does not have a merchandising contract he's not going to be in the game regardless of who is developing the game.

3. THis is just ridiculous. Why is this even a thread anyway? this has nothing to do with 2k17 or even 2k18.

 

THQ is dead, it's not coming back if anything this just needs to be in the gaming chat section

 

this sounds more like you throwing a tantrum cause you didn't get what you wanted. cause you don't have some stupid jump off a helicopter or magic wand type story line. If you actually think THQ was so much better then you can always go and play those games cause this discussion/debate is completely pointless

2K.

 

While THQ made some decent games in the past most of the times the aracde gameplay sucked big time compared to what has become 2K17 and what they can build further upon with the following instalments of the series.

 

Exactly. i don't know why anyone would prefer that arcade bs over what we have now

[Muur]

 

After someone argued till they were blue in the face that 2K is the second coming of God and that THQ were the devil himself, I'm interested in which people preferred. Do note that roster does not count, so saying "2k is better as AJ Styles is in the game" isn't part of it, this is purely gameplay etc

 

dude stop. just stop. you're going to embarrass yourself further than you already have

 

You don't get it. you obviously don't know how game development works.

 

1. WWE Approves a roster not a development company

2. If said person does not have a merchandising contract he's not going to be in the game regardless of who is developing the game.

3. THis is just ridiculous. Why is this even a thread anyway? this has nothing to do with 2k17 or even 2k18.

 

THQ is dead, it's not coming back if anything this just needs to be in the gaming chat section

 

this sounds more like you throwing a tantrum cause you didn't get what you wanted. cause you don't have some stupid jump off a helicopter or magic wand type story line. If you actually think THQ was so much better then you can always go and play those games cause this discussion/debate is completely pointless

 

 

I know, that's why I said for people to choose based on gameplay and not rosters. On Reddit someone said 2K17 is the best game ever as Styles is in it and I'm like "that has nothing to do with the actual game quality"

[armondwardatl]

 

 

After someone argued till they were blue in the face that 2K is the second coming of God and that THQ were the devil himself, I'm interested in which people preferred. Do note that roster does not count, so saying "2k is better as AJ Styles is in the game" isn't part of it, this is purely gameplay etc

 

dude stop. just stop. you're going to embarrass yourself further than you already have

 

You don't get it. you obviously don't know how game development works.

 

1. WWE Approves a roster not a development company

2. If said person does not have a merchandising contract he's not going to be in the game regardless of who is developing the game.

3. THis is just ridiculous. Why is this even a thread anyway? this has nothing to do with 2k17 or even 2k18.

 

THQ is dead, it's not coming back if anything this just needs to be in the gaming chat section

 

this sounds more like you throwing a tantrum cause you didn't get what you wanted. cause you don't have some stupid jump off a helicopter or magic wand type story line. If you actually think THQ was so much better then you can always go and play those games cause this discussion/debate is completely pointless

 

 

I know, that's why I said for people to choose based on gameplay and not rosters. On Reddit someone said 2K17 is the best game ever as Styles is in it and I'm like "that has nothing to do with the actual game quality"

 

 

i would never say a game was the best ever cause one superstar was in it. however i do see it as being in a complete good direction now.

 

there was this idiot on 2k that said 2k15 was the best game ever and he still tried to say that. it wasn't it was horrible but i will say i did enjoy the gameplay.

 

i think the majority of the reason alot of people don't like the 2k series as it is right now is the fact that we lost all those custom entrances (i agree) we lost Match Creator (definitely Agree) and We lost the last iterations of match types that were reintroduced from WWE13 onward (Special Referee I quit ,and inferno - i include that cause it was revamped) definitely agree with that.

 

but you also have to understand that the majority of the glitches that everyone complains about are because of 2 major reasons:

 

1. it's THQ's old cold still being cleaned up year after year cause Yukes owns the system they are using so if 2K were to can yukes and only use VC they would have to have an engine of their own first.

2. the people/community. Yes We all are at fault for one reason and one reason only. Freedom. we've constantly asked for ABCDEFGHIJKL well you get the picture, to be imput in these games.

 

first it was stats, then shows on any day of the week in universe, then D-Throw Moves, and then my personal favorite "please give us back the physics" and everyone's wondering why the ladder spins around like a tornado in a 6 man ladder match.

 

so yeah we are just as guilty for constantly asking for stuff. Like people asked for that rivalry manager. and they got what they wanted.

 

I'm sure we'll eventually get all these match types and match creator back. we may never get the entrances ever again but 2k15 was like SD1 on ps1. 2K16 was like SYM 2K17 was like HCTP and i have a feeling the 2K18 is gonna feel like maybe SVR06 where everything seems almost complete but not there. and maybe by 2k19 we'll have all our match types back and finally have a base to build on.

 

so like i said i get it.

 

 

sorry for the long post.

 

 

[Muur]

I prefer the faster gameplay, story modes (which 2K haven't had yet) and a meaningful career mode from the older games.

[armondwardatl]

I prefer the faster gameplay, story modes (which 2K haven't had yet) and a meaningful career mode from the older games.

 

there shouldn't be faster gameplay

you're not gonna get any type of storymode other than what 2k has been doing

and career mode in 09 and 10 was horrible.

 

sounds to me you just want an arcade game so i'm done.

i tried to be understandable but what you are asking for is just flat out ridiculous.

[Muur]

 

I prefer the faster gameplay, story modes (which 2K haven't had yet) and a meaningful career mode from the older games.

 

there shouldn't be faster gameplay

you're not gonna get any type of storymode other than what 2k has been doing

and career mode in 09 and 10 was horrible.

 

sounds to me you just want an arcade game so i'm done.

i tried to be understandable but what you are asking for is just flat out ridiculous.

 

 

I mean, at least it only took 4 matches to get a title shot in 09/10... in 16 and 17 it will take 500

 

How is preferring the older games "ridiculous" I mean, I'd assume most here prefer HCTP or No Mercy etc as their fave ever WWE games

[armondwardatl]

 

 

I prefer the faster gameplay, story modes (which 2K haven't had yet) and a meaningful career mode from the older games.

 

there shouldn't be faster gameplay

you're not gonna get any type of storymode other than what 2k has been doing

and career mode in 09 and 10 was horrible.

 

sounds to me you just want an arcade game so i'm done.

i tried to be understandable but what you are asking for is just flat out ridiculous.

 

 

I mean, at least it only took 4 matches to get a title shot in 09/10... in 16 and 17 it will take 500

 

How is preferring the older games "ridiculous" I mean, I'd assume most here prefer HCTP or No Mercy etc as their fave ever WWE games

 

 

i don't prefer any of those to be honest. i hated the career mode of 09/10 with a passiion. no story no cutscenes. just match after match after match with zero rewards. sorry but no

 

it does not take 500 matches to get a shot in 16 or 17.

it took my exactly 10 matches in 16 and exactly 15 matches in 17. you just have to know how to work the system.

 

i have read about people being stuck at like number 1 or 2 for a long time but that is cause they don't go in the order the game intended you to.

 

as far as HCTP/No Mercy.. i hated no mercy cause of the "half entrances" ahd HCTP is way overrated just cause it has a brawl out the arena type thing

 

so i respect your opinion but i prefer the main flagship series to remain as is. all that's needed is more attention to the issues and for 2k to stop relying on youtubers to promote them. cause they are the main source of problems. they run into a glitch and don't bother to report it. meaning said glitch ends up in the final copy. that's the only thing i'd say thq got right. near the end they had real playtests when we had wwegames community leaders and got to go to test the game when it was in it's Summerslam and MITB builds. i was at the one for 2K14 which was still under THQ at the time.

 

now they rely on these youtubers who have to say it's not their job to point out glitches and bugs yet they don't seem to have a problem creating a 15 minute youtube video about it for *censored*ing views.

 

sorry for the rant but i think that's what has annoyed me the most about this gen.

think about it. if those youtubers hadn't clamored about having a capture device built into the ps4 and x1's we'd probably still have custom music support.

[........]

Personal answer AKI Games

 

With topic 2k games hands down

[armondwardatl]

Personal answer AKI Games

 

With topic 2k games hands down

 

i honestly never liked the aki engine. they had access to the n64's expansion yet they couldn't even figure a way to have full entrances in no mercy lol

[MikeM]

In my experience, I think 2K are a lot more reactive to what the customers (us) want. THQ's customer service was pretty awful - even in the No Mercy days. I remember basically getting no news from them about the battery save glitch - it was almost like they had denied the game existed before the new cartridges came out.

 

Then of course there was the PR disaster of the THQ customer relations representatives, who were vague at best, and obstructive at worst. "Maybe next year". And then there were the servers (or often there wasn't)

 

Gameplay wise, I would say that 2K16 is probably the best engine since the original No Mercy. Yes there are glitches, and it takes a week to load custom superstars, but at it's core it's fundamentally a fine game. There's always a reason to get excited about a new 2K game, because in my experience they add a lot each time.

 

I think sometimes people forget that the PS4 version is effectively a brand new game, and it's not a case of features being "removed" from previous generations as it is them not yet being built in to the new one.

[CROSS-Out]

Your opening post comes across as needlessly antagonistic. "I didn't get the resolution I wanted in the other thread so I'm going to act as if I did and be cocky".

 

To answer your question, I went with 2K. Now no, i'm not going to pretend 2K is this god-like savior who has zero issues, however I think its very clear that 2K is showing a much stronger case of leadership vs THQ who could not give less of a rats ass by the end of its lifetime.

 

That said, I will say that I think both companies' part of the problem was Yukes. I think everyone can agree that the coding of the game is likely an absolute mess, I'd be surprised if Yukes was even putting its coding into blocks anymore. BUT, the difference here is that 2K has been trying to make due with what they got and seem to at least be trying to crack down on it, whereas THQ just said "*Censored* it, make a half-assed feature we'll remove next game and call it revolutionary".

 

As well, 2K has yet to be actively caught lieing on camera. I cannot and will not forget how both Corey Ledesma and Bryan Williams actively bullshitted on-screen about the move removal in 2011.

 

But really, all I need to do to make this decision for my personal tastes is look at the improvement speed comparison. Compare how many improvements the games got between WWE SVR 2011 to WWE 13, and then compare the improvements from WWE 2K15 to WWE 2K17 and there's simply no comparison. 2K got more done in less games than THQ did.

 

Now this is NOT an argument for arcade vs simulation. That is not something you can objectively argue because that is a subjective opinion of taste. I prefer simulation, some others prefer arcade, but if people try to use that to justify saying "THQ was better" than i'm going to have to politely ask you to take a seat because that's just silly.

 

Do I think 2K could do more to improve? Absolutely. Do I think both companies are hurt by WWEs refusal to go for a longer than 8 month dev cycle? Abso-*censored*ing-lutely. But when I compare what I saw in THQs past-2010 era vs 2Ks era, there's simply no comparison. It's like comparing apples to oranges, but the apple is rotted and has worms inside it while the orange just has a couple scuff marks on the skin.

 

If this were a comparison of THQ from Shut your mouth to 2007 vs 2K then it'd be a bit more of a fair fight in my opinion, but there'd be no point in making that comparison because in the end, THQ as it was towards the end is what really matters and they let the series stagnate horribly.

 

also, lets be honest, as much shit as 2K17 (rightfully) gets for how buggy it is, THQ wasn't exactly squeaky clean in that regard. At least 2K tries to fix the problems with patches, THQ only ever really patched to remove good things like the crotch-blur bypass.

[TheFlashCarnage1]

THQ Made the best WWE games with the Smackdown games Here comes the pain, Know your role,

[Muur]

it does not take 500 matches to get a shot in 16 or 17.

 

 

it took my exactly 10 matches in 16 and exactly 15 matches in 17. you just have to know how to work the system.

 

 

I call bullshit mate, there's a reason the achievements on 16 and 17 for winning the titles are all less than 5%

 

It took me an in game year to get an IC title match, winning every single match and feud on the way

 

It's literally impossible to get a title shot in 2 months LMFAO. Universe maybe... but I'm talking My Career mode but enlighten me as to how your copy is magically different to every other copy in the world

 

and yes, I went in order. It still took 7 months for me to get from #4 to #3 in the IC title division winning every match

[xjakexryanx]

THQ made terrible wrestling games and couldn't give a crap about their customers. They were the most bug filled crap games ever and even tried to blame their customers when their game didn't work properly.

 

2K is far from perfect, but the game now feels so much closer to the REAL product than anything THQ ever did. It should feel like you're watching wrestling not playing an arcade fighter. If that's what you are looking for, more power to you, there are plenty of old consoles and games for that very thing.

But starting this topic is totally asinine.

[TheFlashCarnage1]

A free Roam WWE game made by THQ is better than anything anyone else has done..

 

THQ went down hill after here comes the pain because they did away with the Free roam and went to the RAW VS SMACKDOWN games

[armondwardatl]

 

it does not take 500 matches to get a shot in 16 or 17.

 

 

it took my exactly 10 matches in 16 and exactly 15 matches in 17. you just have to know how to work the system.

 

 

I call bullshit mate, there's a reason the achievements on 16 and 17 for winning the titles are all less than 5%

 

It took me an in game year to get an IC title match, winning every single match and feud on the way

 

It's literally impossible to get a title shot in 2 months LMFAO. Universe maybe... but I'm talking My Career mode but enlighten me as to how your copy is magically different to every other copy in the world

 

and yes, I went in order. It still took 7 months for me to get from #4 to #3 in the IC title division winning every match

 

 

i bullshit you not.

 

you don't have to wait till you're number 1 contender to go after a title. i got a title shot for the US title in 16 at rank 3.

either way the career mode in 16 or 17 is way better than anything thq did. you're just grasping at straws trying to justify an arcade experience over a sim experience. must really suck to be you. glad you're not in charge.

 

[Muur]

 

 

it does not take 500 matches to get a shot in 16 or 17.

 

 

it took my exactly 10 matches in 16 and exactly 15 matches in 17. you just have to know how to work the system.

 

 

I call bullshit mate, there's a reason the achievements on 16 and 17 for winning the titles are all less than 5%

 

It took me an in game year to get an IC title match, winning every single match and feud on the way

 

It's literally impossible to get a title shot in 2 months LMFAO. Universe maybe... but I'm talking My Career mode but enlighten me as to how your copy is magically different to every other copy in the world

 

and yes, I went in order. It still took 7 months for me to get from #4 to #3 in the IC title division winning every match

 

 

i bullshit you not.

 

you don't have to wait till you're number 1 contender to go after a title. i got a title shot for the US title in 16 at rank 3.

either way the career mode in 16 or 17 is way better than anything thq did. you're just grasping at straws trying to justify an arcade experience over a sim experience. must really suck to be you. glad you're not in charge.

 

 

 

Yeah I knew about being able to get a shot at #3. Still takes a year to get from #10 to #3

 

Oh yeah, it sure sucks wanting a game with a story mode vs a career mode that takes 500 matches to win one of the title belts, "*Censored* you Muur story modes are shit I'd rather have 500 matches that are all the same because lol." If you played GTA, would you just want a murder simulator vs having the story mode? it really makes no sense to actually like the career mode in 16 or 17... explain to me what's good about it? it's literally 500 matches with one guy, in which during a month feud with someone you face them on nearly every show and at times fight then all 9 matches that month. HOW FUN. Then you have the three month ones, yay I get to fight Sami Zayn 27 times in a row

 

I won every title in 16 and 17 and it took me over 100 hours. 100 hours of shit matches, just to get those achievements

[armondwardatl]

Your opening post comes across as needlessly antagonistic. "I didn't get the resolution I wanted in the other thread so I'm going to act as if I did and be cocky".

 

To answer your question, I went with 2K. Now no, i'm not going to pretend 2K is this god-like savior who has zero issues, however I think its very clear that 2K is showing a much stronger case of leadership vs THQ who could not give less of a rats ass by the end of its lifetime.

 

That said, I will say that I think both companies' part of the problem was Yukes. I think everyone can agree that the coding of the game is likely an absolute mess, I'd be surprised if Yukes was even putting its coding into blocks anymore. BUT, the difference here is that 2K has been trying to make due with what they got and seem to at least be trying to crack down on it, whereas THQ just said "*Censored* it, make a half-assed feature we'll remove next game and call it revolutionary".

 

As well, 2K has yet to be actively caught lieing on camera. I cannot and will not forget how both Corey Ledesma and Bryan Williams actively bullshitted on-screen about the move removal in 2011.

 

But really, all I need to do to make this decision for my personal tastes is look at the improvement speed comparison. Compare how many improvements the games got between WWE SVR 2011 to WWE 13, and then compare the improvements from WWE 2K15 to WWE 2K17 and there's simply no comparison. 2K got more done in less games than THQ did.

 

Now this is NOT an argument for arcade vs simulation. That is not something you can objectively argue because that is a subjective opinion of taste. I prefer simulation, some others prefer arcade, but if people try to use that to justify saying "THQ was better" than i'm going to have to politely ask you to take a seat because that's just silly.

 

Do I think 2K could do more to improve? Absolutely. Do I think both companies are hurt by WWEs refusal to go for a longer than 8 month dev cycle? Abso-*censored*ing-lutely. But when I compare what I saw in THQs past-2010 era vs 2Ks era, there's simply no comparison. It's like comparing apples to oranges, but the apple is rotted and has worms inside it while the orange just has a couple scuff marks on the skin.

 

If this were a comparison of THQ from Shut your mouth to 2007 vs 2K then it'd be a bit more of a fair fight in my opinion, but there'd be no point in making that comparison because in the end, THQ as it was towards the end is what really matters and they let the series stagnate horribly.

 

also, lets be honest, as much shit as 2K17 (rightfully) gets for how buggy it is, THQ wasn't exactly squeaky clean in that regard. At least 2K tries to fix the problems with patches, THQ only ever really patched to remove good things like the crotch-blur bypass.

 

 

pretty good post man. like i said. 2k is still working with the yukes engine. so they can't cut ties with them until they develop an engine of their own (which i hope they are in the process of doing) i do agree that Yukes is the main culprit. that was the main reason story designer got axed. it had way too much bad code that developed from WWE12 - 2k14 that it was beyond repair.

 

It seems to me he just wants a career mode that's nothing but match after match and some original story telling. i have no problem with that but yeah to say that THQ is better is laughable.

 

i could argue that if they had never developed and tried to market that u-draw tablet so heavily then thq probably (probably) would still be around. but even so i'd rather deal with 2k over thq any day. and yeah i give 2k enough hell but it's because of the reasons i mentioned before. patching this breaks that. patching that breaks this. and by the time the last dlc comes out we still have stuff broken we have to deal with till the next game.

 

but as you have said, 2k has done better in terms of patching than thq ever could have hoped to have done.

 

[Muur]

 

It seems to me he just wants a career mode that's nothing but match after match

 

 

it already *censored*ing is that

[armondwardatl]

 

 

 

it does not take 500 matches to get a shot in 16 or 17.

 

 

it took my exactly 10 matches in 16 and exactly 15 matches in 17. you just have to know how to work the system.

 

 

I call bullshit mate, there's a reason the achievements on 16 and 17 for winning the titles are all less than 5%

 

It took me an in game year to get an IC title match, winning every single match and feud on the way

 

It's literally impossible to get a title shot in 2 months LMFAO. Universe maybe... but I'm talking My Career mode but enlighten me as to how your copy is magically different to every other copy in the world

 

and yes, I went in order. It still took 7 months for me to get from #4 to #3 in the IC title division winning every match

 

 

i bullshit you not.

 

you don't have to wait till you're number 1 contender to go after a title. i got a title shot for the US title in 16 at rank 3.

either way the career mode in 16 or 17 is way better than anything thq did. you're just grasping at straws trying to justify an arcade experience over a sim experience. must really suck to be you. glad you're not in charge.

 

 

 

Yeah I knew about being able to get a shot at #3. Still takes a year to get from #10 to #3

 

Oh yeah, it sure sucks wanting a game with a story mode vs a career mode that takes 500 matches to win one of the title belts, "*Censored* you Muur story modes are shit I'd rather have 500 matches that are all the same because lol." If you played GTA, would you just want a murder simulator vs having the story mode? it really makes no sense to actually like the career mode in 16 or 17... explain to me what's good about it? it's literally 500 matches with one guy, in which during a month feud with someone you face them on nearly every show and at times fight then all 9 matches that month. HOW FUN. Then you have the three month ones, yay I get to fight Sami Zayn 27 times in a row

 

 

first off everyone's entitled to their opinion. but you throwing a tantrum cause you didn't get the end result to your little discussion over in the unpopular gaming discussions thread doesn't help jack.

 

not only that. did i not say you had to go in a particular order.

 

if you say started in nxt and went for the tag titles, you start at 5. when you switch to nxt championship again you start at 5. rinse and repeat with the main roster. you're supposed to start with the US title, then the IC Belt, then the world title. all jumps starts you at 5. you only end up at rank 1 if you jump into a division you're not quite ready to be in yet. but you enjoy your little tantrum i'll talk to you tomorrow.

 

 

 

It seems to me he just wants a career mode that's nothing but match after match

 

 

it already *censored*ing is that

 

 

no it's not. match after match entails no cutscenes or story whatsoever. 2k15 2k16 and 2k17 all have cutscenes.

 

that's like saying GM mode is better than Universe mode when it isn't since it also did not have cutscenes.

 

please lose the attitude.

 

[Muur]

if you say started in nxt and went for the tag titles, you start at 5. when you switch to nxt championship again you start at 5. rinse and repeat with the main roster. you're supposed to start with the US title, then the IC Belt, then the world title. all jumps starts you at 5. you only end up at rank 1 if you jump into a division you're not quite ready to be in yet. but you enjoy your little tantrum i'll talk to you tomorrow.

 

 

 

You only start one division at rank #5, have you actually played the mode? if it was that easy the achievements wouldn't be at 1% each for unlock rate

 

Are you talking about Universe mode or what

[armondwardatl]

 

if you say started in nxt and went for the tag titles, you start at 5. when you switch to nxt championship again you start at 5. rinse and repeat with the main roster. you're supposed to start with the US title, then the IC Belt, then the world title. all jumps starts you at 5. you only end up at rank 1 if you jump into a division you're not quite ready to be in yet. but you enjoy your little tantrum i'll talk to you tomorrow.

 

 

 

You only start one division at rank #5, have you actually played the mode? if it was that easy the achievements wouldn't be at 1% each for unlock rate

 

Are you talking about Universe mode or what

 

 

first of all, unlike you, i don't play games for achievements or trophies and i honestly can't understand why someone would base their logic on something like that.

 

secondly i am in my 3rd year and i am a former NXT Tag, NXT Champion, US champion and current IC Champion. now according to your logic i wouldn't have had all these championship reigns within 3 game year time. but i have.

 

not only that. you and i clearly have different opinions so let's just leave it at that. we'll see how well your little poll goes.

 

[Muur]

 

 

no it's not. match after match entails no cutscenes or story whatsoever. 2k15 2k16 and 2k17 all have cutscenes.

 

that's like saying GM mode is better than Universe mode when it isn't since it also did not have cutscenes.

 

please lose the attitude.

 

 

 

what cutscenes were you seeing? I mean, once a month you had that tag match where your rival ditches you and then it's 1v2 but that happens every month so who gives a *Censored*

 

and then at the end of the month your rival attacks you in your celebration but you avoid it. yay, two cute scenes that happen every month

 

Now, 16 wasn't as bad as it did have some storyline stuff but 17 stripped nearly all of them and it's just match after match after match. I played 5 in game years to win the 5 titles and I only saw a few. One with the tag partner leaving, one with the post match attack, one where you offer your arm for a handshake and they slap it away

 

Mycareer is a 100 hour grind to win the 5 titles and it's gonna be even worse in 18 with double the titles

 

If they actually manage to improve career then cool but until then it's a 100 hour boring grind whilst Universe has barely changed since it was introduced.

 

 

 

first of all, unlike you, i don't play games for achievements or trophies and i honestly can't understand why someone would base their logic on something like that.

 

secondly i am in my 3rd year and i am a former NXT Tag, NXT Champion, US champion and current IC Champion. now according to your logic i wouldn't have had all these championship reigns within 3 game year time. but i have.

 

not only that. you and i clearly have different opinions so let's just leave it at that. we'll see how well your little poll goes.

 

 

 

That was just to point out how much of a grind it is. If less than 1% win each title... then there's something wrong.