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Basically all I want at this point is for the DCEU to fail just enough to where they want to shake things up. And the way I want them to do that? Flashpoint movie!

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I don't think having a Flash movie would be considered shaking it up. Even if it is Flashpoint. I know that story literally changes the timeline, but we've seen a version of it recently. They need to change it up by doing something totally new.

Edited by PositiveCreep

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I was cool with Superman being a bit dark and emo at first, cus he's an alien and the world wouldn't accept that at first so I don't mind how he was in Man of Steel and BvS honestly, but I think once he returns (I'm guessing the very end of Justice League to save the day) I really hope that's when they kick it into overdrive about how Supes' is the beacon of peace the world needs, and has been lacking. I think having that sort of Superman around is all they need tbh! Very much like the Peter Tomasi Superman run.

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I really hate how they didn't make Batman's past vague, especially Robin and his fate. We know in the cinematic universe Robin is dead and we know Joker and Harley had a hand in killing him. We know Batman has been Batman for 20 years.

 

1. WHO IS ROBIN? The first Robin is Dick, but in the DCEU, Dick is not mentioned. Nor Nightwing. So was the first Robin killed? Fans of the comic Death in the Family knows that Jason is the one to get the axe, but Jason was the 2nd.

 

If we are to assume Batman had one Robin who was killed by Joker and Harley, was this his first sidekick that made him become ruthless? But if it was the 2nd Robin to get killed, wouldn't the adult first one try to help Bruce before he crossed the line? Unless this is the first, in which case, Batman has created the Justice League and would have no need having a kid help him clean Gotham.

 

They robbed us of two storylines: Death in the Family and Under the Red Hood, two stories which are iconic in Batman's life.

 

Furthermore, can you see Joker and Lex interacting? What about Joker and Batffleck?

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Isn't it still vague considering you're asking a bunch of questions you don't know the answer too?

 

(Not trying to ask this in a dickish way just incase it comes off that way).

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Basically all I want at this point is for the DCEU to fail just enough to where they want to shake things up. And the way I want them to do that? Flashpoint movie!

Now if they do Flashpoint should they just say *Censored* it and use the CW universe?

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Basically all I want at this point is for the DCEU to fail just enough to where they want to shake things up. And the way I want them to do that? Flashpoint movie!

Now if they do Flashpoint should they just say *Censored* it and use the CW universe?
Probably, yeah. At the very least use Grant Gustin, Stephen Amell, and the dude that played Super on Supergirl.

 

And also whoever actually oversees the whole thing

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Isn't it still vague considering you're asking a bunch of questions you don't know the answer too?

 

(Not trying to ask this in a dickish way just incase it comes off that way).

I'm pointing out the holes the story brushed off as insignificant, rather than integral. A dead Robin demands more exposition than a costume shot and footnote in a bio a la Suicide Squad.

 

A solution iso, for example, mentioning Bludhaven or bringing up Jason's name, just so fans of the comics know where he is in his point of his life. "Oh, this is after Jason died, Batman became dark, Dick is probably Nightwing, and if they introduce Robin again, it'll be Tim Drake."

 

As an example. That's the DCEU's problem with being hasty. It still baffles me Batman v Superman bombed.

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You understand that they will almost certainly get to all that in the solo Batman movie, right? It's called hinting and setting up groundwork. They didn't need to give us all that info in BvS because it's not pertinent to that particularly story, even if that particularly story was a jumbled mess. They've set up Batman, they've set up The Joker and they've given us a little hint at some history between them, history that should come to ahead in The Batman. It's actually something the DCEU has done right tbh. They didn't rob us of anything considering it's very likely be revealed in future movies, yo just have to be patient about it.

Edited by Creep.

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Ah I understand. I was thinking the same thing as Creep said when I read the post though.

 

I prefer hints because it makes me want to see what comes next. I hate when movies spoonfeed all the details (unless they have too for a twist or whatever).

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I like the vague'ness of the Robin mystery, since the general public who lets face it, are the ones superhero films are generally aimed at will just see a Robin suit and presume its "that gay Dick Grayson kid" then when they do finally "reveal" the Robin stuff, a bit of a surprise to all. Plus, they introduced quite a lot of "new" characters to that cinematic world for BvS so confusing the general public with ANOTHER may have been overkill, no?

 

And honestly, since we live in a world where hetrosexual white males are evil villainous creatures apparently, I wouldn't be surprised if when we do finally get a new Robin (big if, imo) it'll be Carrie Kelley.

 

But yeah, the mystery is cool imo as it gives intrigue for future films, and isn't just a throw away 10 second clip in a film about a bigger picture. Clearly its resonated with so much people if 1 year later people are STILL wondering where it goes. Remember, its a comic film. If you pick up a comic now, it'll start a story today and won't get to the conclusion of the arch for 6 issues.

 

Remember how up in arms people for about Nazi Captain America? 5 months later and its STILL going, but with little bits of detail here n there clueing you in. That book wouldn't be a top seller today if in issue 1 it was all resolved in 1 panel. Its to pull you in to buy future copies (film tickets)

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That's wishful thinking that DC will get the solo Batman movie correct. So far, what they've put out with MoS, BvS, and Suicide Squad, this solo movie has a lot of backstory to fill in. Batman v Superman had a huge character change (I.E, the killing/ruthlessness) that, we have to wait to get it explained.

 

In hindsight, people wouldn't have been thrown off if they understood where this Batman was coming from by SEEING it, rather than hearing about it by character exposition.

 

It's more rewarding to see Tony Stark go through the experience that gives him PTSD and then deal with it, rather than introduce him with PTSD. For Batman's case, killing is his one rule that makes the character unique, and that's thrown out the window for a haphazard excuse and a one shot of a costume, which has no backstory. We're left to infer.

 

Because they didn't do an origin with this Batman.

 

The DC movies have been mediocre or tanked. Critically and financially, especially with these established characters and stories that should have been easily pulling in a billion.

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That's wishful thinking that DC will get the solo Batman movie correct. So far, what they've put out with MoS, BvS, and Suicide Squad, this solo movie has a lot of backstory to fill in. Batman v Superman had a huge character change (I.E, the killing/ruthlessness) that, we have to wait to get it explained.

 

In hindsight, people wouldn't have been thrown off if they understood where this Batman was coming from by SEEING it, rather than hearing about it by character exposition.

 

It's more rewarding to see Tony Stark go through the experience that gives him PTSD and then deal with it, rather than introduce him with PTSD. For Batman's case, killing is his one rule that makes the character unique, and that's thrown out the window for a haphazard excuse and a one shot of a costume, which has no backstory. We're left to infer.

 

Because they didn't do an origin with this Batman.

 

The DC movies have been mediocre or tanked. Critically and financially, especially with these established characters and stories that should have been easily pulling in a billion.

Actually Batman use to kill people. The comics had to stop having him kill in the 50's due to the laws. If it weren't for the laws he probably still would.

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That's an example where the comic code actually made a character more interesting. That's part of why I couldn't get behind the BvS Batman. All he was was an asskicker in a Batsuit. They kept talking about how he had changed, but this is the first time I'm seeing him so that change doesn't mean anything to me. It's weird how much Snyder is so quick to make all these characters kill people. It's a great way of immediately taking out a lot of the stakes in your action scenes. Again I don't know why the *Censored* they put all their faith in this guy. He's a DC fan, but all the guy is interested is watching muscley men kick the shit out of eachother. The guy hasn't told an interesting story in his life. Get rid of Goyer too. That guy isn't worth a shit. The only things he has done that have been worth a shit are the ones where he has Nolan to help him out.

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I've said this before in here but I thought it was pretty self explanatory just watching the hints.

 

- show that robin is dead

- lost his way, a lot more brutal and ruthless (ie: bat brand [wasn't a fan but I understand the reason])

- see's a god-like man as a threat to the world

- realises that even though the man is an alien God, he has feelings and emotions like humans (yeah people troll the "MARTHA" thing but I think a good way to make Bruce realise "OH, he IS human [figuratively])

- finds his way and realises he doesn't have to do it alone (ie: justice league)

 

And I'm glad we didn't get an origins, they're played out too much. We don't need to waste 4 years (writing, filming, editing) on something generally everyone knows by now even the general public.

 

An origins story worked for Nolan's films because they were a real world interpretation of the character, and played into the overall arch of the 3 films. Doing an origins for every Batman reboot after just becomes tiresome as its basically the same thing... how many times can they retell that? Lord knows I never want to see Peter Parker getting bit by a spider in a laboratory ever again.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, when I read Batman I don't want to see him kill junkies and thiefs, but you can quite clearly tell this Batman has been through a load of shit and (at first) gave up on "his way" as his way GOT ROBIN KILLED, so he went a new direction til he "saw the light" of sorts when he realised there's others like him who can make a difference.

 

But tomatoe tomato.

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That's an example where the comic code actually made a character more interesting. That's part of why I couldn't get behind the BvS Batman. All he was was an asskicker in a Batsuit. They kept talking about how he had changed, but this is the first time I'm seeing him so that change doesn't mean anything to me. It's weird how much Snyder is so quick to make all these characters kill people. It's a great way of immediately taking out a lot of the stakes in your action scenes. Again I don't know why the *Censored* they put all their faith in this guy. He's a DC fan, but all the guy is interested is watching muscley men kick the shit out of eachother. The guy hasn't told an interesting story in his life. Get rid of Goyer too. That guy isn't worth a shit. The only things he has done that have been worth a shit are the ones where he has Nolan to help him out.

I agree completely but my opinion in general is I don't like how close some movies follow the comics (as it gets boring for the most part). Also Snyder (and most likely Goyer) are done after Justice league (part 1). Thankfully

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Man I WANT Batman to be killing people. If this Batfleck has been doing it for 20 years and has suffered severe loss at some point then why wouldn't he be breaking necks? That was one of the few delights of BvS.

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I'm not disputing that they didn't make clear that there was a change in Batman. They made it clear. Any scene he wasn't murdering people they were reminding you that he didn't used to murder people. But you never see the before picture play out. So it doesn't really mean as much as it would if we saw how he used to operate. I don't think an origins story would have been a good idea either. I think what really would have been a good idea was a small-scale Batman adventure. A movie like one of the Arkham games or The Animated Series. A Batman in his prime that exposes us to how this interpretation of the character conventionally operates. No need to rush into the Justice League shit.

I agree completely but my opinion in general is I don't like how close some movies follow the comics (as it gets boring for the most part). Also Snyder (and most likely Goyer) are done after Justice league (part 1). Thankfully

Yeah I'm the same way. I guess I'm in the minority that thought the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 was a clever and fun twist on a movie that other wise had the potential to be the same formulaic Marvel bs. Or that Spider-Man not telling shitty jokes in the Raimi movies doesn't make him any less of interesting character and doesn't change those first two movies from being two of the best comic book adaptations of all time.

 

Also I think Goyer's supposed to be writing the Green Latern movie because I guess they thought making a second shitty Green Lantern movie was a a good idea.

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Batman used to kill in the very early renditions, like the serials, before the character became as mainstream as he is now -- yeah, when the CCA came into play. But in common Batman mythos, him not killing gives Batman that moral line to walk. He has said himself that if he crossed it, even just once, there would be no turning back for him. Even in the Injustice elseworld comic, he kills Joker to save Metropolis and Lois/Supe's kid and still turns himself in. That has been established for years, gives him depth, and makes him unique. He's no different than the punisher now.

 

Well, Alfred talks about him branding people and turning ruthless, which isn't the same as confronting Bruce and telling him that he has broken his one rule. The Dark Knight emphasized the "One Rule" moreso than this film, which shouldn't be because Batman has already crossed that line (allegedly, because aside from the dream sequence and the Martha thug, they didn't show Batman fully kill. Ambiguous death, etc). Furthermore, its a movie, they should have SHOWED it, rather than provide exposition.

 

Apparently Robin's death was enough to send Batman over the edge. How long have they worked together? Was THIS the straw that broke the camel's back? But if you see the Robin costume, his weapon isn't a non-lethal Bo Staff or Escrima Sticks (which would have been a great hint on his identity), but a lethal axe-type of weapon, so Robin wasn't adhering to the "No killing" rule so much.

 

I get where they were going with the story. Morally broken Batman/Punisher sees a God-like alien who learns of his humanity and then, in turns, regains his faith in humanity.

 

I would have preferred, if Warner Brothers weren't greedy and actually planned things out, if they introduced Superman and his ideals, THEN who THIS Batman is, where he's been, and what he's about, we see why they are two different characters. Like the animated film, "World's Finest". It's a weak excuse that Clark dislikes how brutal Batman is, yet he can't keep innocents from dying either. The reason in why they fight is not there, because the characters aren't strong in who they are. Instead, they went for the cliché hostage scenario that stopped because their mom shares the same name.

 

Hell, to go further, even in Suicide Squad, they have cleaning up to do with Joker and Harley's relationship that should have been introduced in a solo Batman flick FIRST, then fleshed out more in Suicide Squad. Throughout the movie, I was wondering why Joker cared so much for Harley and if the rumors are true that she's going to separate from him, I still don't understand why she would as I never saw any form of abuse. At the end, he comes and saves her. Going back to the Robin topic, when we see Batman save Harley in Suicide Squad -- it takes place after Man of Steel, Robin is dead then -- Batman sure seems OK about everything. Assuming in that flashback they evaded capture even after killing Robin, then when Batman arrests Harley, she gets sent to Belle Rieve prison and then its Suicide Squad, you would get more of a reaction.

 

TL;DR, they have a lot of cleaning up to do in the Batman solo movie and its because of their laziness and greed that they're going down this road. They have a Justice League, but no plan for where the universe is heading. They already killed Superman, destroyed Doomsday, and did Flashpoint on TV. What is next? Avengers have been building for Infinity Wars and has not even gotten there yet -- Just saying.

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Watching the extended cut of Suicide Squad now...about 3/4 through with it. I don't know if the extended cut is a lot better than the theatrical release, but it seems like a decent movie to me. Joker is trash though. *Censored* Jared Leto.

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Yeah I watched it recently. The theatrical release of that movie was garbage, the editing specifically was messed up. The extended cut fixes a lot of those problems fortunately.

 

But as you said Gen, *Censored* Leto's Joker.

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