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Jmerc

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That could be interesting. Could also explain Rey and Kylo's force connection as they have the same "force DNA", Kylo being the grandson of a Sidious force-conceived man. And since people are trying to duck the trailer

 

 

Sheev's laugh tease doesn't make much sense to me, why he would choose now to show up, but he could very well reveal he force created Rey as he twiddled his thumbs on the busted Death Star. *shrugs* never really thought about that.

 

 

I gotta look up some more info about Padme's death. Didn't know about the heartbeat first breath thing. That's kinda cool. It's been a bit since,I've,seen,the opera scene but I thought it was there to 1)confirm what Sam said about creating life through the force and 2)make the sith sound more enticing by offering a way to save Padme whom Ani was having dreams about dying just like he did about his mom before he found her dead.

 

The idea of Palp killing Padme is weird to me because he did all that work setting that up but didn't kill the bitch before the biggest threat to his plan was born?

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Well...Padme dying for seemingly no detectable (droid) reason is one clue.

Then Palpatine blatantly lying to Vader after Vader's rebirth.

 

And...something that is not actually hard to pick up without headphones...Vader's heart stops for one beat just at the very same moment Padme dies. Padme is dead and then Vader lets out his "first" breath underneath the mask.

 

It's really subtle but quite the clue, once you notice it

Based on the scene though, she was heartbroken about Anakin and died because of that. I don't remember if Obi-Wan told her Anakin's dead, but being choked by the man she loved until near death, despite being pregnant with his babies, didn't help.

 

And Palpatine lied to Vader so Vader would have no reason to go back to the light side. He initially joined Palpatine to save Padme, no? Without Padme and after being left for death, Vader would see think himself alone and likely stay with Palpatine for companionship or something.

 

Though, was it ever confirmed that Palpatine made Anakin dream of his mom's death and then Padme's?

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I'm just gonna do an entire prequel rewatch. I watched Phantom Menace today. I suppose it's possibly because of George Lucas is the creator so people just didn't critically think it through, but George was doing this demystifying of the myth with the prequels long before Last Jedi. If anything, with the opening it seems to be like the prequel's mission statement. The Jedi are referred to as the galaxy's "guardians of peace and justice" in the opening crawl. Yet what are we told they're doing earlier in the crawl? They're working as government stooges. They're sent to intimidate the trade federation into doing whatever they with the implication of violence floating in the air should they not play ball. Nute Gunray and Rune Haako seem equally scared shitless by Darth Sidious as they do by the Jedi. When TC-14 tells Nute and Rune that the Republic has sent in Jedi, the score almost resembles the Emperor's theme. Obi-Wan speaks of this grand Republic and the wise Jedi before the Empire in A New Hope. Yet our first glimpse of it depicts the Republic as inept and unable to get anything done and the Jedi as violent pawns of that inept system. Note that he also isn't entirely truthful about Luke's father. Obi-Wan sees it all through rose tinted glasses. He either doesn't want to admit, or doesn't recognize that he was part of the systematic failure that allowed a fascist empire to rise to power.

 

I think ineptness is kind of the best way to describe the heroes of Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon goes to a planet with slave labor. Anakin, a slave, recognizes a Jedi and, based on his conception of what a Jedi should be, assumes that he's there to free the slaves. That's what we'd expect a Jedi to do based on what Obi-Wan told us in A New Hope. Nope, kid. Sorry. Not here to free the slaves at all. I'll makes sure to free you though, because you're personally valuable. Padme, a global leader, doesn't even know slavery is still around. She's a politician that comes from privilege and is completely out of touch with what the common people are dealing with outside of her Venice paradise planet. Qui-Gon has good intentions. He helps Jar Jar out. But he's part of a corrupt system and doesn't seem to struggle with that unless it conflicts with what he wants personally. If anything the moral of the prequels seem to be good intentions get you nowhere.

 

Phantom Menace is pretty flawed if you believe that the original trilogy is what Star Wars is as a whole, but I think from the get-go George was trying get across that these stories aren't sacred. Rian Johnson very much took this approach, which is why I suppose both the prequels and Episode VIII are so polarizing. I know I used to hate the prequels. I saw the Plinkett reviews. I still like the Plinkett Reviews and I think they are completely legitimate if you approach the prequels as being of the same genre of the originals. I just have kind of increasingly read them as George trying out something completely new and I think that's what's lead me to appreciate them. A guy like Rich Evans is right when he says you can't do a lot with Star Wars, IF you approach them the same way you approach the original trilogy. However, the prequels and The Last Jedi go in a different path of deconstructing the myth, and because of that I find them to be valuable works of art that I can really sink my teeth into.

Edited by sam the d00d

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Yeah, I didn't realize it until recently just how flawed the Jedi are. Banning love, making themselves the peacekeepers of the galaxy, and all that shit.... But then again, Anakin went down the Dark Side because of love, but he was also redeemed because of love as well. Luke also almost went to the Dark Side because of love. Wonder what the point of Jedi was though, then, if not protector of galaxy.

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Really...You guys missed the entire point of the pre-quels and Anakin being created by the force in order to bring balance to the galaxy?

 

 

I seriously recomment CinemaWins outlook on the entire series. Since the whole point of the channel is seeing the positiv in everything, he often hits the nail on the head with what the intent behind certain things are. Not that this is without flaws, but it helps to see things you might have missed.

Edited by LEGION

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You don't spent every free minute you have thinking about the tale of Darth Plagueis, the wise?

I'm disappointed

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Really...You guys missed the entire point of the pre-quels and Anakin being created by the force in order to bring balance to the galaxy?

 

 

I seriously recomment CinemaWins outlook on the entire series. Since the whole point of the channel is seeing the positiv in everything, he often hits the nail on the head with what the intent behind certain things are. Not that this is without flaws, but it helps to see things you might have missed.

Wasn't it implied Palpatine created Anakin?

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Watched Revenge of the Sith today. Jesus Christ the Oedipal stuff is so overt. I was watching Anakin's reaction to Padme telling him she was pregnant and all of the sudden I remembered the age gap between them in Phantom Menace, which seems weird in a vacuum, but it I'd say it really comes together in Revenge of the Sith. Like how in Phantom Menace, they fly away from Anakin's mom and Padme takes care of him on the ship, wrapping him in a blanket. How she tells him in Attack of the Clones that he'll always be that little boy on Tatooine. How they get married very quickly after his actual mother dies. How his nightmares about Padme mirror his nightmares about his mother. It's clear Lucas was making connections between Schmi and Padme the entire time to pay it off here. When Padme mentions the baby, Anakin immediate deflects it back to Padme. He doesn't want to talk about the baby. He fears childbirth will kill Padme because he fears that if Padme has a child it'll somehow take her love away from him. Not to mention he starts having nightmares about Obi-Wan being there with Padme during the childbirth. The man he said in Attack of the Clones was "the closest thing [he] ever had to a father." He becomes fearful that his surrogate father is cuckholding him his surrogate mother. Thus the climax of the movie where he tries to kill the surrogate father.

 

Obi-Wan and Yoda both realize that they've failed as dads to Anakin, which I've already said informs their decision of giving the two most powerful Jedi babies to families rather than raising them as Jedi, which I've already stated in this thread why that's so powerful. Their failure allowed Palpatine, ironically enough Anakin's real dad sort of, to swoop in and tell Anakin everything he wanted to hear and to give Anakin all the support Obi-Wan and Yoda weren't giving him.

 

Also on a sidenote, I love how the opening sequence on the Separatist battleship has interior set design that's nearly identical to return of the Jedi. With the stairs and balconies and pedestals, complete with a throne that Palpatine sits in. How Palpatine instructs Anakin to kill Dooku, truly beginning the relationship between the two as we see it in the Death Star II in Return of the Jedi. Only in Return of the Jedi, Anakin doesn't listen to Palpatine and doesn't kill his opponent. So it all comes full circle.

Edited by sam the d00d

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Really...You guys missed the entire point of the pre-quels and Anakin being created by the force in order to bring balance to the galaxy?

 

 

I seriously recomment CinemaWins outlook on the entire series. Since the whole point of the channel is seeing the positiv in everything, he often hits the nail on the head with what the intent behind certain things are. Not that this is without flaws, but it helps to see things you might have missed.

Wasn't it implied Palpatine created Anakin?

 

No. Anakin wasn't necessary for Palpatine's plan.

(Something that I only realized recently.) Due to Anakin it went quicker, but overall...Doku would have done well enough or even without Doku it still would have turned out the same. The Jedi failed that big to spot the Sith. Speaking of...Palpatine wouldn't even have been outed as a Sith Lord without Anakin.

Edited by LEGION

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Really...You guys missed the entire point of the pre-quels and Anakin being created by the force in order to bring balance to the galaxy?

 

 

I seriously recomment CinemaWins outlook on the entire series. Since the whole point of the channel is seeing the positiv in everything, he often hits the nail on the head with what the intent behind certain things are. Not that this is without flaws, but it helps to see things you might have missed.

Wasn't it implied Palpatine created Anakin?

 

No. Anakin wasn't necessary for Palpatine's plan.

(Something that I only realized recently.) Due to Anakin it went quicker, but overall...Doku would have done well enough or even without Doku it still would have turned out the same. The Jedi failed that big to spot the Sith. Speaking of...Palpatine wouldn't even have been outed as a Sith Lord without Anakin.

 

Given Palpatine told Anakin his master taught him how to create, end, and protect life, and Shmi two movies ago saying she didn't know how Anakin was conceived without a father, it's safe to assume Palpatine created Anakin as part of his plan. Dooku was old, and he likely didn't have as much potential as Anakin.

 

It's not like Palpatine can predict everything, though, but he was trying to turn Anakin. What if it was part of his plan to be outed, given that he was the one standing in the end, not the Jedi?

 

 

One thing I don't agree with, sam, is Yoda being any sort of father figure to Anakin. Did they even talk much?

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Anakin consults with Yoda before anybody else regarding his nightmares in Revenge of the Sith. He clearly values his guidance, even though Yoda isnt all that great at giving it. We see Yoda dealing with a class of Jedi children in Attack of the Clones. As the leader of the Jedi, Yoda is a role model, and due to the fact that they take Jedis from their parents when theyre babies to teach them the Jedi way he takes on a parental role by default.

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Valuing Yoda's guidance doesn't mean Yoda's a father figure. I think that honor belonged to only Obi-Wan, and both also saw each other as brothers.

 

I don't know or remember if there are other Jedi teaching the children as well tbh, but likely were.

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See thats the thing, Anakin doesnt see Obi-Wan as a brother. Only Obi-Wan sees Anakin as a brother. Anakin desperately wants a dad, Obi-Wan just doesnt see himself in that position and never truly takes that mantle. Its because Obi-Wan is constantly portrayed as this stunted Jedi Master who skipped a critical part of development when he was forced to skip the Jedi trials and jump right from padawan to master. He completely missed out on a good number or years of growing up. Its possible that deep down, due to his master dying prematurely before his teaching was done, that he sees both Anakin and himself as Qui-Gons padawans. After all the original plan was for Anakin to be Qui-Gons padawan.

 

Also doesnt matter if we assume others teach Jedi do. Theres no evidence to pull from. Its not in the language of the film. Seeing Yoda with these toddlers creates visual connotations. Hes like sweet grandpa Yoda. Obi-Wan says he was trained by Yoda yet had Qui-Gon as a master so we see that Yoda has a hand in every Jedis life from before theyre even cognizant in most cases.

Edited by sam the d00d

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Yep. Anakin desperately seeked some guidance, but neither Yoda nor Obi Wan could deliver in that department, because of the screwed Jedi code. He had fears of losing his wife and unborn child, but couldn't even be honest about it, due to the Jedi order self-inflicted rules.

 

Obi Wan saying "I failed you, Anakin.", is the truest thing he has ever said.

Edited by LEGION

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The Jedi Order's rules were problematic anyway, it's not like all Jedi followed it anyway. Didn't Obi-Wan have a lover? I forgot if that's still canon. And yet, it kinda made sense because the Jedi could have used their powers to save their loved ones at any cost or seek revenge and go down the Dark Side. idk

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Its canon, but its definitely not something they had in mind when making the prequels therefore its kind of irrelevant to me personally. To me, core Star Wars will always be those first six movies. Clone Wars is sort of fun bonus material but since all of it sort of comes after the fact I dont really put it into consideration when doing a deeper reading or even think its fair to.

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i think it's kinda important as it pertains to Obi-Wan's character. Its not like it contradicts anything anyway.

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i think it's kinda important as it pertains to Obi-Wan's character. Its not like it contradicts anything anyway.

It sorta does. Obi Wan would have seen what Anakin goes through and could have been a better mentor to him

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I like Clone Wars a lot, its just when analyzing something historical context is important. Like I wouldnt have my reading of the 1939 Wizard of Oz film be affected by the Return to Oz movie that came out in the 80s or the Sam Raimi Oz movie that came out a few years ago, because those were made in response to the 1939 film. However, it could go the other way around. I just feel that its a one way street.

Edited by sam the d00d

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