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Jmerc

By Jmerc
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AlterNation

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My theory about Rey's origin could still be a thing, I think. Kylo may not have been lying about her parents being bums/nobodies, but that wouldn't necessarily mean a grandparent wasn't a Jedi.

 

Not Obi-Wan, but Qui-Gon Jinn. If my memory is right he was kept off the Jedi Council because he went against their wishes at times, breaking the celibacy oath might be something he did.

 

That's just my dumb mind though.

 

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Creepia Official CAWs.ws Addict

Creepia

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Man, why are we still theorising this?

 

 

I get that Kylo could have been lying, but think about the scene. The reveal of who they were was meta and only for us. Rey always knew who they were (junk trader nobodies) she just a biased memory of them that he (using the Force) made clearer for her.

 

Would she have Force sensitive ancestors? Most likely, but there are plenty of people in that galaxy who are Force sensitive, but never become Jedi or Sith or anywhere between.

 

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sam the d00d Main Eventer

sam the d00d

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Not to mention there's plenty of force sensitive people whose parents weren't force sensitive. Mace Windu, Obi-Wan, pretty much most of the Jedi that aren't named Skywalker.

 

Also Kylo 100% wasn't lying. Rey says who her parents are first. Kylo tells Rey to "say it" because she already knows the truth she just doesn't want to admit it. Kylo doesn't actually tell Rey anything in that scene.

 

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M3J Official CAWs.ws Addict

M3J

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Just because you didn't understand why Luke died, doesn't mean it didn't make sense. Rey literally said Luke had excluded himself from the Force for a long time, but it was clear he was using every bit of energy or force or whatever it was to put himself on Crait and do all that shit as a Force Ghost(hallucination?) Then he died the same way Yoda and Obi Wan did. His mission was complete, he accepted the Force again and he finally become one with it.

 

He'll be a Force ghost in the next ep for sure.

 

 

Don't get defensive, I clearly said it didn't make sense to ME. And I did mention that could be one reason why he passed away the way he did. I thought he'd do more though, which is why his death was a bit surprising to me.

 

 

 

Also, unrelated. How will they deal with Carrie's death? Also felt weird to see The Last Jedi take place few minutes or hours after the previous movie, whereas normally it's at least a year apart.

 

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sam the d00d Main Eventer

sam the d00d

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So I really liked the movie on my first viewing. Just did a second viewing today with my younger brother as I'm back home for a bit for the holidays and it's sort of become an annual thing for us now. Gotta say I still really like this movie. It's got some pretty glaring flaws, but, for me, the positives outweigh them greatly.

 

As far as flaws that bother me it mainly comes down to the B-plots. First is the stuff with Finn and Rose. It's something I'm really conflicted on. I like the characters and how they interacted. I don't quite know how I feel about their whole mission being ultimately pointless. Sure, it's about the journey and not the outcome, but the journey itself wasn't all that fulfilling either. I mean just on a visual stand point I thought the Canto Bight stuff was just pretty bad. Once again I liked the characters and their interactions, it's just the setting didn't feel like Star Wars. It felt like Doctor Who or the Hunger Games and it was taking me out of the movie. The pointlessness of the mission certainly ties into the movie's larger theme of failure, but to trudge through that difficult detour to Canto Bight and for the only consequence of the sequence be that they freed the animals? Okay, I guess?

 

My smaller issue comes with Poe's plotline. I like Leia trying to get into Poe's thick skull essentially "Hey, idiot! Don't be so reckless. Can't you see I'm setting you up to lead this thing when I die? I need you alive." I like the leader Poe grows into. The only thing I don't think the movie explains enough is why Holdo didn't just let Poe in on the plan. I think it's an easy fix. Hell, you could have had Poe know the plan and still carry out the mutiny just because he thinks it's a bad idea. Like I can think on it, and think of reasons why she wouldn't tell him that make enough sense that I'm willing to go along with it. My issue is the film doesn't present any solid reason as to why, thus forcing me to come up with a believable reason in my own headcanon. I'll repeat, I loved Poe's arc and that, to me, this one question isn't enough for me to throw what I like about the arc out the window.

 

As for the main plot, the Jedi stuff, I loved all of it. Kylo Ren continues to be the best character in this trilogy and Adam Driver just *censored*ing nails the performance flawlessly. I feel like Daisy has improved so much as an actress since the last film and I think Rey is much more fascinating in this movie than she was in the last. The scenes where these two connect through the force were some of the best scenes in the entire movie. They managed to build a budding mutual respect between these two rivals so believably. I think their fight scene vs. the Praetorian guards is one of the greatest fight scenes in the entire series. I like how violent Rey gets around Kylo, as if he rubs off on her a little. I like the contrast of Kylo, a man of a royal bloodline being intrinsically tied to some random girl whose deadbeat, alcoholic parents ditched her in the middle of nowhere. I love when Kylo tells her that she's nobody and "[she] has no place in this story."

 

They handled Luke in a way where it was nothing that I thought I wanted, but seeing it play out I loved every bit of it. When it was announced they were making Episode 7 I was so excited to see Luke, the great Jedi master, my favorite Star Wars character make a triumphant return. But Rian's take on Luke isn't that, at least not immediately. He didn't do what would have been easy, but ultimately empty. He instead gave Luke an actual character arc rather than making him just be the old sage archetype of this movie. It sort of reminded me of Twin Peaks: The Return. I was so excited to see Dale Cooper, the ultimate optimistic back on TV, only to find out that David Lynch and Mark Frost made Dale Cooper lose his mind for 13 or so episodes. But come part 16 of the series Cooper gets his mind back and it's the most euphoric feeling ever that just completely washes over you.

 

I think Luke's part 16 equivalent is the scene he shares with Yoda, which is probably my favorite scene in the entire movie. I just found something really beautiful in the moment those two characters shared. Luke being comforted by a Jedi who did the same thing Luke did at one point. Just telling Luke to not be so hard on himself, that he succeeded in training Kylo and what the student does with the training is out of the teacher's control. The ending shot of Yoda and Luke watching the tree burn, signifying them letting go of the past, I thought it was a beautiful shot. I think that line from Yoda, "Failure, the greatest teacher is" had this really poignant quality to it. I just love the idea of Yoda, a leader of the Jedi before Luke who also failed, being the one to comfort Luke and tell him everything will be alright in the end. From that point on Luke is back to having that same spirit the Luke of the original trilogy had.

 

I like that Luke didn't just show up and start mowing down AT-AT's and get into a lightsaber duel with Kylo either. Because I don't think that's what a great Jedi master would do. It wouldn't be Luke effectively using the force. People forget that the biggest steps Luke takes as a Jedi is that of non violence. The climax of Return of the Jedi is him tossing his lightsaber to the side when faced by the Emperor. If he were to show up in this and just take on the First Order in a physical sense it would had not only been a bone-headed move, but also out of character. He successfully riles up Kylo enough to let the Resistance escape and let's Kylo know that he's *censored*ed basically because the Jedi will live on and the reach of the Resistance is all over the galaxy. Love that line "See you around, kid" before fading out and also love Adam Driver's reaction to it. I couldn't ask for a better death scene for Luke either. The twin suns, the John Williams score. While the Han Solo death I felt was pretty botched because it's predictability contrasted with it's attempts to be gutwrenching, Luke's death scene just hit all the marks for me.

 

Ultimately, I think the Last Jedi is certainly flawed, but, for me personally, the flaws aren't enough to detract from the great things the movie has going for it. I think Force Awakens is a much tighter movie, but this one is certainly much better than Rogue One by default because these characters actually develop. If I were to rate it, I'd probably give it a 7/10. If I were to personally rank the movies it'd go:

 

1. TESB

2. ANH

3. ROTJ

4. TFA

5. TLJ

6. ROTS

7. TPM

8. AOTC

9. R1

 

Note that after we get past TLJ, it enters completely subjective territory where I view all the movies as pretty bad, therefore my nostalgia certainly takes precedent. Not to mention the prequel trilogy provide some pretty nice ass memes whereas Rogue One doesn't as much.

 

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Senex Beast Hall of Famer

Senex Beast

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My new ranking is..

 

The Empire Strikes Back

A New Hope

The Last Jedi

The Force Awakens

Return of the Jedi

Rogue One

Revenge of the Sith

Attack of the Clones

The Phantom Menace

 

The only bad movies to me are the last two but at least each of those had a great scene (Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Darth Maul in TPM and the Jedi vs creatures at the colliseum in AOTC)

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Creepia Official CAWs.ws Addict

Creepia

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Empire

A New Hope

Force Awakens

Rogue One

The Last Jedi

Revenge of The Sith

Attack of The Clones

Phantom Menace.

 

I'll have to watch TLJ again to properly judge it though.

 

 

The casino thing seriously made me want to walk out on TLJ for me, I can't get past how non-Star Wars it felt and how preachy and obnoxious the "save the animals" angle was. Especially from such a domineering company like Disney, it just reeked of cynicism.

 

Kylo is the best part of this new trilogy and is one of the best parts of Star Wars of all time. And yeah that Yoda scene was amazing and put a huge smile on my face.

 

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sam the d00d Main Eventer

sam the d00d

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I will defend the Ewoks until I die. I think their defeat of the Empire perfectly encapsulates not only the Empire's hubris but also the major themes of Star Wars perfectly. The biggest flaw in Return of the Jedi is that Han already had completed his character arc in the last movie so he just remains a bit stagnant. Also the plan to break Han out of Jabba's palace literally makes no sense at all, but the end game of the non sensical plan is a bunch of fun scenes that fully realize the setting. So it's give and take. I still think Return of the Jedi is the most fun to watch in the original trilogy as a popcorn movie.

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M3J Official CAWs.ws Addict

M3J

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Return of the Jedi

Empire Strikes Back

A New Hope

The Force Awakens

Revenge of the Sith

The Last Jedi

Phantom Menace

Attack of the Clones

 

Though RotJ mainly because I thought the duel between Luke and Vader was done well and showed Luke's development so well. But then, ewoks make me reconsider.

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