LastMinuteLapras Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 only homos play yoshi d00d this has been proven Get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarDaddyPlease Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've only played one Little Mac that can beat my Captain Falcon. All the other ones are too easy. Bait the counter in the air, shield grab on the rush, toss off stage, gimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've only played one Little Mac that can beat my Captain Falcon. All the other ones are too easy. Bait the counter in the air, shield grab on the rush, toss off stage, gimp. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God of Lightning Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamthyst Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've only played one Little Mac that can beat my Captain Falcon. All the other ones are too easy. Bait the counter in the air, shield grab on the rush, toss off stage, gimp. It's hard to find people who are good with Mac because of how little skilled players there are with him. I commend a lot of people for using him as a main in For Glory and competitive tournaments because he's gimped so easily, especially if they can get far or win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 After giving it a few months I just really don't think this game offers much to me. Looks like I'll just be playing Melee until I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Perfect. Thats going in the sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 After giving it a few months I just really don't think this game offers much to me. Looks like I'll just be playing Melee until I die. I never had a Gamecube so Melee's the only one I've never owned. I've probably only played it like a handful of times at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I feel bad for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Melee is definitely my second favorite Smash game. The only thing that finally moved me away from it was the horrible imbalance in the character roster. When I played with friends, it was always the same fights in the same stages, with the same outcomes over and over. There's really no chance of beating your opponent when you decide to play for fun and play a new character, because in Melee, chances are the character sucks. I really wanted to use DK as one of my mains back then. I've picked him up in Sm4sh though, so I'm okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 That's just not true lol. Melee is no less balanced than any other smash and I play any character I want all the time with my friends and do fine. The better player usually wins regardless of character unless it's something ridiculous like Fox vs Kirby. And then those "unwinnable" matchups happen in every smash except arguably 64. And if you're playing the same maps with same characters every game when you guys play that's on you and your friends not the game itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God of Lightning Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I haven't played Melee since 2004 or 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarDaddyPlease Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's just not true lol. Melee is no less balanced than any other smash and I play any character I want all the time with my friends and do fine. The better player usually wins regardless of character unless it's something ridiculous like Fox vs Kirby. And then those "unwinnable" matchups happen in every smash except arguably 64. And if you're playing the same maps with same characters every game when you guys play that's on you and your friends not the game itself. Its very true actually. Everyone in the pro scene admits to it, and the fact that Armada of all people switched to a Fox main because he said no other character can keep up consistently with Fox. Are there people who are good enough to make other characters work pretty well? Yes. Will the win majors on a constant basis? Not a chance with Fox out there. Playing with friends is fine, but the game competitively is built around a few main stages and Fox balance wise and there is hard proof and data to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) That's just not true lol. Melee is no less balanced than any other smash and I play any character I want all the time with my friends and do fine. The better player usually wins regardless of character unless it's something ridiculous like Fox vs Kirby. And then those "unwinnable" matchups happen in every smash except arguably 64. And if you're playing the same maps with same characters every game when you guys play that's on you and your friends not the game itself. Its very true actually. Everyone in the pro scene admits to it, and the fact that Armada of all people switched to a Fox main because he said no other character can keep up consistently with Fox. Are there people who are good enough to make other characters work pretty well? Yes. Will the win majors on a constant basis? Not a chance with Fox out there. Playing with friends is fine, but the game competitively is built around a few main stages and Fox balance wise and there is hard proof and data to prove it. He wasn't talking about super top level professional play though he was talking about his experience playing it with friends. And Armada had to switch because he told himself he had to, his Peach was still getting top 2/3 every big tournament. And 64 is Pika centered, Brawl Meta Knight, Sm4sh Diddy. I didn't say Fox isn't the best character (even though it is debatable imo), I just said no other smash game is any more balanced. Every other smash, even every other fighting game for that matter, has a competitive tier list with clear best characters and that doesn't take anything away from the game imo. And no, not everyone in the pro scene admits to it. Half of them think the whole 20XX Fox only idea is ludicrous. PP just won Apex, the largest tournament of all time, with Falco and Marth ffs. Big House 4 had 8 unique characters in the top 8. Fox only is an ideal that will never come to life, there are too many other super good characters that are easier to play. And sure, if it ever came to the point 20 years from now that every player is frame perfect, maybe Fox does get a kill everytime he touches someone, but Armada already does that with Peach and every other top tier kills Fox every time they touch him as well. Edited March 30, 2015 by Grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarDaddyPlease Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's just not true lol. Melee is no less balanced than any other smash and I play any character I want all the time with my friends and do fine. The better player usually wins regardless of character unless it's something ridiculous like Fox vs Kirby. And then those "unwinnable" matchups happen in every smash except arguably 64. And if you're playing the same maps with same characters every game when you guys play that's on you and your friends not the game itself. Its very true actually. Everyone in the pro scene admits to it, and the fact that Armada of all people switched to a Fox main because he said no other character can keep up consistently with Fox. Are there people who are good enough to make other characters work pretty well? Yes. Will the win majors on a constant basis? Not a chance with Fox out there. Playing with friends is fine, but the game competitively is built around a few main stages and Fox balance wise and there is hard proof and data to prove it. He wasn't talking about super top level professional play though he was talking about his experience playing it with friends. And Armada had to switch because he told himself he had to, his Peach was still getting top 2/3 every big tournament. And 64 is Pika centered, Brawl Meta Knight, Sm4sh Diddy. I didn't say Fox isn't the best character (even though it is debatable imo), I just said no other smash game is any more balanced. Every other smash, even every other fighting game for that matter, has a competitive tier list with clear best characters and that doesn't take anything away from the game imo. And no, not everyone in the pro scene admits to it. Half of them think the whole 20XX Fox only idea is ludicrous. PP just won Apex, the largest tournament of all time, with Falco and Marth ffs. Big House 4 had 8 unique characters in the top 8. Fox only is an ideal that will never come to life, there are too many other super good characters that are easier to play. And sure, if it ever came to the point 20 years from now that every player is frame perfect, maybe Fox does get a kill everytime he touches someone, but Armada already does that with Peach and every other top tier kills Fox every time they touch him as well. Falco is the other spacie who everyone says is 20XX, so still kinda counts towards my argument. PP wouldn't have taken it solo Marth. Like I said, do people make it work? Yup. Will the ever consistently take tournies over people who use Spacies (mainly Fox)? Nope. Armada switched off because he knew he wasn't going to be dominating with Peach like he's tried to. The data seems to legitimately prove Fox and to a lesser extent Falco are just superior in Melee, its fact. The game is quite unbalanced. Its fun as hell and my fav Smash game by quite a bit, but one you're beyond like......I'd say Marth/Sheik the tiers just drop significantly. Even Fox/Falco to Marth/Sheik is a pretty big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Undoubtedly, most any character in Melee can be utilized with enough knowledge, but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day, in a match between two people with equal skill levels, people playing as the "big five" have a higher chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Well yeah, that's true in every fighting game period much less every smash game. So I'm not sure how that is supposed to be a knock on melee. And Seven I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree I guess because IMO Falco isn't even as good as Marth. PP might not have won apex solo Marth (I personally think he would but let's say he wouldn't for the sake of argument), but he also definitely wouldn't have won it solo Falco so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. But I'll just paraphrase Mango and Alex's conversation on his stream yesterday to summarize my view. A realistic 20XX, the one we will actually have a chance of seeing, isn't all Fox. It's every player having to have 2 or 3 mains they can play all extremely well because the counter picks become everything when you're playing perfectly, and Fox just simply doesn't counter everyone on every map. Mango doesn't believe in 20XX, PP thinks it's bullshit (he even thinks just the concept of it being thrown around is more harmful/worrying than Fox himself), M2K changes his mind on the best character every tournament, Leffen thinks Marth is the best character in the game (and that in a frame perfect world Yoshi is actually godlike up there with Fox and Marth but we). HBox, Armada, and Hax are really the only players that matter that actually seem to buy 20XX. The majority of people who are diehard believers of it are mid/low level players who just want excuses for why they aren't winning with their mains. There are realistically at least 5/6 characters that are viable for winning a national and that's more than enough to have diversity and balance at high levels imo. I've never understood this idea that every character needs to be equally viable for a game to be considered balanced or competitively viable as a game. And again, it's even more true for playing just as a fun game with friends, which is what I thought we were talking about to begin with. But even if you do want to talk absolute peak levels of competition, I still don't buy it. When somebody who is not a god that just happens to play Fox starts taking out players like Axe simply because they play the "broken character", then I might start to see some merit in it, but for now there's no reason to think 20XX as it is thought to be by reddit and shit will ever actually happen. The better players still win regardless of character, and that's what really matters at the end of the day. A perfectly balanced fighting game simply can not possibly exist with more than one character being in the game. That's the nature of fighting games, or just games in general really. Shit characters have counters shit other characters have. The only way for every character to be equally viable is literally for every character to be identical. Edited March 30, 2015 by Grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well yeah, that's true in every fighting game period much less every smash game. So I'm not sure how that is supposed to be a knock on melee. And Seven I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree I guess because IMO Falco isn't even as good as Marth. PP might not have won apex solo Marth (I personally think he would but let's say he wouldn't for the sake of argument), but he also definitely wouldn't have won it solo Falco so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. But I'll just paraphrase Mango and Alex's conversation on his stream yesterday to summarize my view. A realistic 20XX, the one we will actually have a chance of seeing, isn't all Fox. It's every player having to have 2 or 3 mains they can play all extremely well because the counter picks become everything when you're playing perfectly, and Fox just simply doesn't counter everyone on every map. Mango doesn't believe in 20XX, PP thinks it's bullshit (he even thinks just the concept of it being thrown around is more harmful/worrying than Fox himself), M2K changes his mind on the best character every tournament, Leffen thinks Marth is the best character in the game (and that in a frame perfect world Yoshi is actually godlike up there with Fox and Marth but we). HBox, Armada, and Hax are really the only players that matter that actually seem to buy 20XX. The majority of people who are diehard believers of it are mid/low level players who just want excuses for why they aren't winning with their mains. There are realistically at least 5/6 characters that are viable for winning a national and that's more than enough to have diversity and balance at high levels imo. I've never understood this idea that every character needs to be equally viable for a game to be considered balanced or competitively viable as a game. And again, it's even more true for playing just as a fun game with friends, which is what I thought we were talking about to begin with. But even if you do want to talk absolute peak levels of competition, I still don't buy it. When somebody who is not a god that just happens to play Fox starts taking out players like Axe simply because they play the "broken character", then I might start to see some merit in it, but for now there's no reason to think 20XX as it is thought to be by reddit and shit will ever actually happen. The better players still win regardless of character, and that's what really matters at the end of the day. A perfectly balanced fighting game simply can not possibly exist with more than one character being in the game. That's the nature of fighting games, or just games in general really. Shit characters have counters shit other characters have. The only way for every character to be equally viable is literally for every character to be identical. Of course a perfectly balanced fighting game is impossible to achieve, but you can't deny that Smash 4 is a much more balanced game than Melee was. In Melee, we had quite a few virtually useless characters that could never stand with the big 5, including but not limited to Kirby, Ness, and Pichu. In Smash 4, even "Bottom of the Barrel" Donkey Kong and Zelda are usable. There are still bad matchups, but every game has them. Being able to counter 2 or 3 characters is a lot different than being able to counter 3/4 of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Yes I can deny it, because 5 months into Melee no character was useless yet either. Link and Mewtwo were winning tournaments the first couple years. Give it a few years and then tell me there are no trash characters in Sm4sh and we can have that conversation then. Once people learn how to really exploit characters weaknesses a tier list exactly like Melee's will appear in Sm4sh. Edited March 31, 2015 by Grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Oh Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I love making my friends rage when I pick Iggy, and I quote that Iggy Azelea 'Fancy' song while I send them flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost. Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 LUCAS AS DLC WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) LUCAS AS DLC WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO In other news, Mewtwo has a release date of April 28. WOOOOO. Edited April 1, 2015 by ArmbandSuperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God of Lightning Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/ You can vote multiple times, though how much that affects things, I don't know, but no harm trying. I voted Inkling and Wonder Red as well as Snake which I'm sure won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastMinuteLapras Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Went ahead and put a well thought out vote for Captain K. Rool. Its a shame it only allows 500 characters. I was ready to write an essay. I'll probably give a vote to Captain Toad and Young Link (MM) as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Getsuga Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Voted for Dante. Capcom's already let MegaMan into Smash, so why not try my favorite Capcom character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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