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The Metal Gauntlet - Preview and rules thread.


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Well I'm still here for a minute.

 

How about Manson?

 

Sorry man, I have to veto that one. I personally can't stand that sonuvabitch and I hate his music, except for a couple of the cover songs. But that is beyond the point. The thing is, he's just not metal. The only place he could go is in the fringe and from there it's either NU or Industrial. I don't think he fits with the type of Industrial bands I have there since they all (except maybe Ministry who were sort of the kings of Industrial music in their heyday) are more straight metal bands with some Industrial influences, where as Manson is more the other way around. I didn't even include Rammstein in this block for the same reason and I like Rammstein. Manson was also never really considered part of the Nu metal movement either. And I was in high school back when Marylin first blew up. I can tell you from witnessing it first hand that Marylin Manson was the Messiah of Posers when it came to metal back then.

 

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but that's just how I feel. Also if someone suggests Limp Bizkit they are just flat out getting punched.

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Well I like Kalmah a lot, and my favorite album by them hands down is The Black Waltz. Hence I liked them more when they started moving away from being Bodom clones. But there is no denying that they have a significant body of work that is the same general style of Extreme Power as Children of Bodom. The biggest decider though is the fact that there aren't a ton of notable Extreme Power bands, I had to dig to find a seventh, but there are still a solid number of them to justify a block. Plus they do represent an evolution of power metal into darker and grittier territory and I certainly don't want to leave extreme power out of the tournament. If I move them to melo, I have bump a band from there that I like and feel fits there a little better than Kalmah, then I'm tasked with finding a suitable replacement for Kalmah in Extreme Power and that could be tough.

 

I will gladly add Lemuria though, thank you for the suggestion. :D

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Gotta say Pink Floyd for Pioneering Metal / Proto-metal is a strange choice to me. I do like Pink Floyd but what did they do that was musically 'heavy'. One Of These Days? The Nile Song?

 

If it was up to me I think Blue Cheer could fit into that group.

 

Did Gorguts get dropped? I thought they were in Trad American Death but thought they could of fit into the Technical Death sub group too.

 

I thinK Ved Buens Ende could fit into the Avant-gard Black group.

 

 

I remember getting that in 1995 or 96 and thinking how strange it was.

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Well Blue Cheer was in that exact group from the getgo. :lol: The irony is that is precisely who I dropped for Floyd who was a very recent addition. I initially felt the same way about Floyd and metal though as you do. But Crazy Moon has been quite helpful throughout this process, and I am a really big fan of Pink Floyd myself. So I figured... why not... Also there is a dude who does metal album reviews and such that had a Music Madness tourny (I posted a link in Highlight's Rock Madness thread) and that guy had Pink Floyd in his otherwise all metal, 64 seed tournament bracket and PF made it to like elite 8. That stuck in my mind even though I still personally think Floyd had a much larger impact on Rock music than Metal, but I acquiesced to demand in this case. I would say that Welcome to the Machine is quite heavy and atmospheric. That song must have had an effect on some metal musicians. Either way, now I gotta decide whether to leave them in or not... I dunno yet.

 

Gorguts was in trad death and did get dropped. I can put them back in somewhere. Tech death is looking pretty full, but they could replace Gorod. I like the latest Gorod album, but they don't have as much history. It's tough placing bands that could fit into multiple blocks unless they automatically make you think of one sub-genre over another. For instance, Suffocation. They too could slide into the tech death block, but when I think of Suffocation I think of brutality much more so than technicality.

 

Interesting suggestion for the avant-garde section. Never ever heard of those guys, but that is a unique and bizarre sound they have going on there. I'll add them. :cool:

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Got a double post somehow... not that that sort of thing ever happens on this forum, hehe.

 

Anyways, I added Gorguts plus I added Ved Buens Ende.

I also added Canada's Unexpect to the avant-garde ensemble. I had been hearing about them and I finally checked them out a bit... they are on some real serious medicinal substances, but are certainly unique.

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I dunno man, PF to me are almost the very definition of Progressive Rock. They might not have the whacky time signatures and (falsely warranted) percieved pretension like Yes, King Crimson etc but they were progressive. They played long jams, crafted music away from traditional rock forms, did some great concept albums that weren't about typical rock themes.

 

Sure, there are other bands from around that time, before and after, that might of pushed those boundaries a little bit further (thinking Krautrock & Zeuhl etc) who I find more interesting lately but PF still has a place in my heart.

 

Saying all that though I think adding PF to this tournament is a bit like the Beatles in the rock madness one. I don't think there'd be that many people who haven't heard PF.

 

That's not to take anything away from PF. About influence, maybe they have influenced some metal bands, well Voivod covered one of their songs for example, but I'm sure Metal has been influenced from a lot f different genres like Classical ect.

 

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You know what... you are right on all accounts Fried.

 

If anything PF would fit more with the Progressive pioneers. And having grown up on a bit of prog, I too feel that the pretentiousness is mostly unwarranted. I love innovation in it's pure form and that's what prog is supposed to be about. Sure there are derivative bands to be found in prog as in any genre of music on the planet. But the overall sense of prog is classy and that will unfortunately always been seen as pretentious by some, especially like bikers and such who can't accept anyone but ACDC being the greatest band of all time.

 

Anyway, Floyd could fit in the prog pioneers section, but I also like that block how it is now. So I'm sorry Crazy Moon, but I'm going to remove Pink Floyd from the tournament. Yet I feel we can all agree that PF is worthy of our utmost respect and admiration and part of that is due to the fact that you can't really pigeon hole them into any real genre, and that's a good thing.

 

--

 

Also, how does the Thrash bracket look? I want to get this thing started. I swapped Mordred (as much as I dig their funkiness) for Heathen. Bay Area is complete, there are a million solid West Coast thrash bands but this is the lineup I'm running with.

East Coast still needs one more band! Why can't Artillery be from like NY instead of Denmark0? I'm thinking of adding them anyway if I can't think of anyone else. Eff it, the actual East Coast just doesn't have nearly the amount of pure thrash bands that the Bay Area does. I've decided to add an old favorite even though they are from the Mid-West. I was looking through old albums and dug up Screams & Whispers by Anacrusis. The album is basically everything anyone would want in a thrash album. These guys have become like a forgotten relic, but Anacrusis were the best Christian Thrash band to ever exist (yes there have been a number of others). EC Thrash is complete now too.

Crossover looks complete, thanks to help from Assault Driver

New Thrash looks good. There are a couple missing bands from the new wave. Most of which either have a comedic theme (nothing wrong that) or just didn't make the cut. But if someone badly wants like Swashbuckle or Gama Bomb... speak up soon.

Groove Thrash feels complete enough. Outside of Pantera (their glam phase never happened...) no band on there has 100% goove based material. But they all fit there none the less.

Finally Teutonic is looking good to go as well.

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You know what... you are right on all accounts Fried.

 

If anything PF would fit more with the Progressive pioneers. And having grown up on a bit of prog, I too feel that the pretentiousness is mostly unwarranted. I love innovation in it's pure form and that's what prog is supposed to be about. Sure there are derivative bands to be found in prog as in any genre of music on the planet. But the overall sense of prog is classy and that will unfortunately always been seen as pretentious by some, especially like bikers and such who can't accept anyone but ACDC being the greatest band of all time.

 

Anyway, Floyd could fit in the prog pioneers section, but I also like that block how it is now. So I'm sorry Crazy Moon, but I'm going to remove Pink Floyd from the tournament. Yet I feel we can all agree that PF is worthy of our utmost respect and admiration and part of that is due to the fact that you can't really pigeon hole them into any real genre, and that's a good thing.

 

--

 

Also, how does the Thrash bracket look? I want to get this thing started. I swapped Mordred (as much as I dig their funkiness) for Heathen. Bay Area is complete, there are a million solid West Coast thrash bands but this is the lineup I'm running with.

East Coast still needs one more band! Why can't Artillery be from like NY instead of Denmark0? I'm thinking of adding them anyway if I can't think of anyone else. Eff it, the actual East Coast just doesn't have nearly the amount of pure thrash bands that the Bay Area does. I've decided to add an old favorite even though they are from the Mid-West. I was looking through old albums and dug up Screams & Whispers by Anacrusis. The album is basically everything anyone would want in a thrash album. These guys have become like a forgotten relic, but Anacrusis were the best Christian Thrash band to ever exist (yes there have been a number of others). EC Thrash is complete now too.

Crossover looks complete, thanks to help from Assault Driver

New Thrash looks good. There are a couple missing bands from the new wave. Most of which either have a comedic theme (nothing wrong that) or just didn't make the cut. But if someone badly wants like Swashbuckle or Gama Bomb... speak up soon.

Groove Thrash feels complete enough. Outside of Pantera (their glam phase never happened...) no band on there has 100% goove based material. But they all fit there none the less.

Finally Teutonic is looking good to go as well.

 

Throw in Gama Bomb!

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Ok, I have two more bands to suggest. One of which I had to think about. The first band that I'm just mentioning is White Zombie. Didn't see them on the list anywhere.

 

The second band is Foo Fighters. I did ponder on them for some time, their most popular songs are without a doubt rock music, but they have made metal songs in the past. Two examples would be White Limo and FFL.

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Absolute no to Foo Fighters. I like them a lot, but they are squarely rock music. Plus they came in second place in the Rock tournament. They certainly got their due recently on this forum. Of course the only place the Foos could go in this gauntlet is the fringe and they would undoubtedly just steamroll everything else in that entire bracket given their widespread popularity both in real life and right here on CAWs. And from there they could go on and potentially, easily win a popularity contest over legitimate metal bands and take the whole thing. I'm not having that. Love the Foos, but this isn't their gig.

 

I initially had both White Zombie and Rob Zombie in the tournament at various early drafts. I didn't want both in to be redundant, so I ended up taking both out. I may add one or the other back in.

 

Also Gama Bomb has been unleashed! The Irish lads are in the gauntlet.

I added a couple more bands here and there.

I still need another first wave BM group. I don't want to accidentally put another third wave group who apes first wave into actual first wave.

 

One band I feel I'm missing from the overall tourny is Moonsorrow. I had always thought of them as a folk metal outfit, but with more harsh vocals. But upon doing some research, they started doing BM stuff and then later folk stuff. Their story based music is meant to be listened to more so as a full album than a single, so I don't know how far they will go in this gauntlet. But their inclusion I guess could help tie together the fact that I put black and folk in the same overall bracket. What do you call black influenced folk metal btw? Wait... on second thought, nobody answer that :shifty: But seriously, I'm wondering where they could fit. Apparently they go back to the mid 90's. So would they fit in Second wave black? Avant-garde (since that is where a Celtic Frost is at)? Folk? Atmospheric?

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Yea I sorta expected that, but felt like mentioning because of songs they have done before. I would like to say though that I could see the songs that they have done putting them in perhaps Sludge(Basing this off of just only hearing the Oblivion album from Mastodon) or Modern Traditional Heavy Metal instead of the Fringe where you said they would dominate and I agree that they would there. I will also agree that maybe they should be left out of this altogether since they did place second on the rock tournament and because they are mostly a rock band, but isn't Staind as well when you almost put them on here?

 

Also, on the slim, off chance that they were added. To avoid their rock music coming into play and giving them a mass popularity advantage, only their metal songs can be used? I somewhat don't see how their popularity will play any how when this is based off metal strictly(or should be at least if the votes are honest).

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Yea I sorta expected that, but felt like mentioning because of songs they have done before. I would like to say though that I could see the songs that they have done putting them in perhaps Sludge(Basing this off of just only hearing the Oblivion album from Mastodon) or Modern Traditional Heavy Metal instead of the Fringe where you said they would dominate and I agree that they would there. I will also agree that maybe they should be left out of this altogether since they did place second on the rock tournament and because they are mostly a rock band, but isn't Staind as well when you almost put them on here?

 

Also, on the slim, off chance that they were added. To avoid their rock music coming into play and giving them a mass popularity advantage, only their metal songs can be used? I somewhat don't see how their popularity will play any how when this is based off metal strictly(or should be at least if the votes are honest).

 

 

Staind was once considered part of the nu metal movement though. They were tight with Korn and those types of bands and would play some of the same shows and stuff.

 

The thing with the Foos is... how many people are really going to follow some code about only using their handful of heavy songs as a basis? Now I really do enjoy the Foo Fighters. They are crazy good live and they have a lot of passion for music. But some people were already upset at them trumping the likes of Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix. If the Foos beat those guys in popularity contests here, there is really nothing that would stop them from tanking my whole gauntlet. In the Rock tourny it was fair because they are a rock band, but this is more of an apples & oranges thing.

 

This is Sludge btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5UnS6QSo0

 

And they aren't even in. Crowbar, eyehategod, Superjoint Ritual, etc... all are pretty similar New Orleans stuff with similar sounds so I only added one. I could always toss Crowbar back in there though. There is a variety of sludgy type stuff. High on Fire is basically sludge too, but I put them in stoner for a rather obvious reason.

 

This band... Ghost Brigade is also considered sludge/doom. Though perhaps more gothic doom as they are often compared to Katatonia. But that block (the one above the sludge block) is just overflowing as it is (with good bands I might add)! So I had been wondering where I could work these guys into the gauntlet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kubmMxykI8

 

You are still not way out to lunch though my man. I actually have heard a band who's singer and riffs remotely sound like the Foo Fighters... called Torche. But that band I don't see making it in either.

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I'm not sure why the forum puts embedded videos in the wide format. Never used to do that. Just letting everyone know that it wasn't like my intention to have those vids take up a huge amount of space.

 

Also, :lol:Out to lunch just means like out in left field, or off base. So I was just saying that you were not that terribly far off of the mark. Because there is at least one band (considered to be sludge) that I feel has some similar guitar tones and vocal styling somewhat similar to what the Foos use. Torche is a very different band than the Foos, but still. Overall, this is sort of like the Pink Floyd thing though, I think the Foos as much as we all love them, just fit better with traditional rock.

I'll find a spot for Zombie though, somewhere.

 

Also, for anyone wondering: Why the hell hasn't sold13r started this thing yet? I'm waiting for the Hip-Hop Ho Down to finish. BWD is on his finals for that tournament right now and even though the metal gauntlet features very different music, I don't want to launch it on the same day as his final round, that would be sorta like a dick move. He never asked me to wait or anything, I just decided to hold off.

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Okay, since I messed up in the last set of blocks by placing a band (Napalm Death) where it didn't fit. From now on I'm going to post the next set of 2 blocks going up here first for a final check to make sure the bands at least fit with their block. Also if anyone wants to request a song that they feel will help their fav band in the group get votes, please do so.

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Cool, that's a good suggestion. I will be sure to add it. Glad you spoke up, or I would have likely added something more accessible from Erosion of Sanity. But Obscura is definitely Gorguts' most innovative work and since this is the tech section, it's good to bring the technicallity.

 

Speaking of Obscura (the band) I'll probably just wind up throwing up Septuagint, but I'd rather go with something off of Cosmogenesis.

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Hey when is the next post coming up?

 

It's coming up now.

I was out of town for Mother's Day and didn't have time earlier today. But RAW is over and I'm gonna post up the next round.

 

I'm debating whether or not I should move Gojira (love that band btw) to the Progressive Death section. They are such a genre bending outfit that they are tough to place. I had considered them tech, but they are not so much in the modern sense of the word techdeath. Now there is a band I tossed in Prog Death called Persefone that I don't really know much about. I could easily bump them into the void and add Gojira somewhere in the middle of that block. As for a replacement in this block, I shall add Gojira's fellow countrymen Gorod to the mix.

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I'm pretty sure that the next bracket I'm putting up is going to be the Heavy Metal section. I had thought about going directly in order as I had them listed, but I'm going to be a bit more stragic. There is a lot of accessible stuff in the Heavy section, not to mention some really massive names: Sabbath, Maiden, Priest, Mercyful Fate, Motorhead, etc... I'm expecting/hoping that this draws more voters in and some will stick aorund for future genres.

 

There are enough fans of Black, that that should be able to go up whenever and should get solid votes. In the meantime I could really use some suggestions for songs for the first, second and third waves of BM. You don't have to search out videos, just some song names or their best album or something, anything to point me in the right direction so the bands don't get misrepresented with their less revered material.

 

As for the other genres, no set order. Things like Power or Doom might go up when/if I notice the return of a few CAWs members who've been MIA lately who I know dig those particular genres, so we could gain their voting insight.

 

Also I think I shall continue posting two vids for the #1 band in each block. But I'm going to stop doing that in the second round and onward.

 

Finally I'm gonna move some a couple bands around and switch two genres. What do you guys think of Glam Metal in the Heavy Metal section in place of Metalcore which would move to The Fringe?

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What should be the voting criteria? Is it more about bands you like or bands that have some sort of legacy?

 

For example in the current Pioneer block everyone should at least respect Black Sabbath for what they did for Metal in it's early days but on the other hand while they might not be Metal (maybe pre-Metal) I do really like Blue Cheer and SRB,

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