Mustacio Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've always wondered how religious people seem to have this one area in their life where they seem reluctant to apply "common sense" (not saying religious people are nonsensical, just couldn't explain it better). You all know 2+2=4, you all know that no matter how hard you flap your arms; you can't fly. You know some things are possible, and some aren't. I can't convince you I posess traits or abilities out of the ordinary without proof. Yet, it's defendable and reasonable to you that a man walked on water, turned water into wine (maybe even walked on that wine, dunno if he could walk on wine after he had turned it, or it was strictly water) Died and came back by intervention of a bearded man sitting on a cloud. That a woman became pregnant while still being a virgin. That a man managed to put a huge amount of animals on a boat, and so on. This total lapse in judging what's reasonable and what's not seems weird to me. Moreso the picky-choosy of what's great from the bible and what isn't. There's some outlandishly heinous shit in there (you'll go to hell for having a bowl cut, or wearing different fabrics combined), but everyone... everyone does these things. Are we all going to hell? Even die-hard followers who in a weak hour decided leather-pants and a wool sweater was a great look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilegium Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Are we all going to hell? Even die-hard followers who in a weak hour decided leather-pants and a wool sweater was a great look? Well, to be honest, I couldn't fault God for that one. Leather pants + wool sweater = deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGEHEAD15 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Can a sports team be considered a religion? I will murder your children. A number of reasons. He isn't around anymore. Or perhaps the God is too disappointed in us and doesn't wish to deal with us anymore. Or maybe the god doesn't manifest in a personal way, but as a force on the world. One that doesn't actually listen or care, but does what it does in the world. I can see how in Christianity it would make sense to assume he does. However, God hasn't really directly spoken or interacted with anyone since the Old Testament, and he sent Jesus down, who was on Earth for around 30 years or so. After that, we don't really get any more interactions with God at all. And any other claims to the contrary (Joseph Smith) aren't widely accepted. Even if God is the way he is in Christianity, I haven't seen any update on his status. I know the Revelation/Second Coming is a sign of him returning, but why the sudden drop in correspondance? So because God isn't checking in often enough on a grand scale, he doesn't want a relationship with us? Let's be honest, if someone told you that God spoke to them would you honestly belive them. Say your Dad was diagnosed with cancer and was later found to be cancer free... would people that didn't belive in God really give him credit for healing or would it be catorgarized as a misdiagnosis,or even maybe a medical miracle/anomily? If you want to believe in God, you can find all sorts of proof (whether it really is or not). If you don't, the same logic applies.... No matter what proof is shown, it can be explained away using anything as a reason (except God) This is an opion based question that really has no proveable answer. Not that those are bad, but its just too easy to tear down the arguments on both sides. There are still people who believe it is in God's divine intervention to save people, such as your dad-with-cancer example. They say 'We'll pray for him' or 'Thank God he survived!', when he was actually saved by the medicine that was designed to battle the cancer or the surgeons that removed - with their own hands - the cancer from his body. The reason we can say there are scientific reasons for the disappearance of his cancer and not God's work is that we can use medical equipment and testing to reasonably prove that it was the medicine or the surgery that saved him. We deny God's work because He doesn't leave a raging clue behind; He doesn't, for example, sign his name 'God' on the tumour or leave something evidential that it was His work. You can't find proof for God either, only opinions and statements that allude to His existence. Not a single religious person can legitimately prove His existence, without a shadow of a doubt and with valid evidence. The reason people deny his existence is not because we have found proof that he doesn't exist, but because we have yet to find any proof that he does exist, and until that time, it is ridiculous to say that 'because you can't prove its non-existence, it must mean it does exist'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinFan Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 No, they shouldn't be tax exempt. Next question. But yeah, I think they should get a tax break. Religious organisations do a lot of charitable work with the homeless or in poorer countries, so that break is helping not just the church but those that the church helps too. :18-:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phkre1QDPuk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phkre1QDPuk[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenade. Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another question: Do Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nWo_Kevin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 There are still people who believe it is in God's divine intervention to save people, such as your dad-with-cancer example. They say 'We'll pray for him' or 'Thank God he survived!', when he was actually saved by the medicine that was designed to battle the cancer or the surgeons that removed - with their own hands - the cancer from his body. The reason we can say there are scientific reasons for the disappearance of his cancer and not God's work is that we can use medical equipment and testing to reasonably prove that it was the medicine or the surgery that saved him. We deny God's work because He doesn't leave a raging clue behind; He doesn't, for example, sign his name 'God' on the tumour or leave something evidential that it was His work. You can't find proof for God either, only opinions and statements that allude to His existence. Not a single religious person can legitimately prove His existence, without a shadow of a doubt and with valid evidence. The reason people deny his existence is not because we have found proof that he doesn't exist, but because we have yet to find any proof that he does exist, and until that time, it is ridiculous to say that 'because you can't prove its non-existence, it must mean it does exist'. And that's your choice on how you want to see things. As the person you quoted said I've seen tons of proof that God exists.There are as many scientists who believe Global Warming doesn't exist and have proof it doesn't exist as there are scientists who believe it does. However most of the media ridicules and attacks the Scientists and ignore any proof they might have. Maybe God has shown you proof, maybe he will in the future and its up to you if you want to see it or not. @AustinFan.....NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilegium Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 AThere are as many scientists who believe Global Warming doesn't exist and have proof it doesn't exist as there are scientists who believe it does. Oh, rubbish. There are not. The scientific consensus is heavily in favor of the existence of Global Warming. You can always find a few outlying folks on any side of any issue, but the Global Warming deniers are way way way in the minority on this one. However most of the media ridicules and attacks the Scientists and ignore any proof they might have. Media schmedia. The media gets Science stories wrong more often than not, because the days of dedicated Science reporters are mostly gone. However, other scientists ridicule the Global Warming deniers. That's the flag you need to pay attention to. Maybe God has shown you proof, maybe he will in the future and its up to you if you want to see it or not. God doesn't exist. Therefore, He/She/It hasn't shown anyone anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoPin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another question: Do Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same God? As a Muslim, our religion is based on the teachings of Moses, Solomon, Abraham, Jesus, and the rest of the prophets. We believe that the Torah was modified/altered, so was the Bible, therefore Islam came along with the Quran that contains a type of literature similar to poetry that nobody in the Arab world over the past 1400 was able to imitate, keeping in mind that Arabs before Islam were known for there tremendous ability to write poetrys. We believe that the Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad (pbuh), an illiterate shepherd known at that time for his honesty and unmatched discpline. Anyway, back to your question, yes, we all belive in the same God, however according to Islamic belief, Christians and Jews associated God with other figures such as Jesus and holy spirit. In Islam we believe in one God. And just as a clarification, "Allah" is a common word used as reference to God in Arabic, it is used by Middle Eastern Christians and Jews as well. In this video, a Muslim argues with a Christian preacher about God, I found it amusing how confused the Christian man was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqm7KJ3E_po We also belive that Prophet Muhammad's mention in the Torah and Bible was altered, however I recently ran across this video which proves that the Prophet's name was indeed in the Old Testament: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVF Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 As the person you quoted said I've seen tons of proof that God exists. Would like you to show/explain this proof, or at least post a link to where you have before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGEHEAD15 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 As the person you quoted said I've seen tons of proof that God exists. Would like you to show/explain this proof, or at least post a link to where you have before. I'd like this too, from both guys, and not just an opinion or 'revelation' that's happened in your life. I want you to show two to display some form of hard evidence and proof that you have found at some point that leads strongly in scientific reason to the existence of God. Also, the whole global warming denial thing is complete B.S. Any scientist that denies it's happening are usually the ones that don't even know what they're talking about, we can clearly measure accurately what is happening to our own O-zone layer and how the pollution from our modern day activities are damaging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreay fufu Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've seen God's face burnt onto my toast. Definitive proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 There we go. That settles it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustacio Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've seen God's face burnt onto my toast. Definitive proof. You used to be a lot cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreay fufu Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've seen God's face burnt onto my toast. Definitive proof. You used to be a lot cooler. I guess it's just because i'm... ... ... hot for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustacio Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! DUN DUN DUN-DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVD 4:20 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have proof that God exists, but I don't think you're allowed to post nudes on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreay fufu Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have proof that God exists, but I don't think you're allowed to post nudes on here. And I did ask you not to send them to anyone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nWo_Kevin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Also, the whole global warming denial thing is complete B.S. Any scientist that denies it's happening are usually the ones that don't even know what they're talking about, we can clearly measure accurately what is happening to our own O-zone layer and how the pollution from our modern day activities are damaging it. Well thanks for proving my previous point. Lets say I did have the proof you were looking for. What keeps you from calling it "complete B.S"? You obviously have no problems saying that about other scientific proof and theories. Your set in your beliefs and that's fine but don't act high and mighty over science when you pick and choose which science you want to believe. After all from your post above it seems that any scientific data against your own is from people who don't know what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVD 4:20 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have proof that God exists, but I don't think you're allowed to post nudes on here. And I did ask you not to send them to anyone else... But he gave me the free will to do so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilegium Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Also, the whole global warming denial thing is complete B.S. Any scientist that denies it's happening are usually the ones that don't even know what they're talking about, we can clearly measure accurately what is happening to our own O-zone layer and how the pollution from our modern day activities are damaging it. Well thanks for proving my previous point. Lets say I did have the proof you were looking for. What keeps you from calling it "complete B.S"? You obviously have no problems saying that about other scientific proof and theories. Your set in your beliefs and that's fine but don't act high and mighty over science when you pick and choose which science you want to believe. After all from your post above it seems that any scientific data against your own is from people who don't know what they're talking about. That's a hell of a way to spin what he said. It's not that "anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't know what they're talking about." It's that anyone who disagrees with a super strong Scientific consensus agreed-upon by approximately 97% of experts in the field" probably indeed does not know what they're talking about. If 97% of climate scientists disagree with what you think about climate science, you're probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGEHEAD15 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Also, the whole global warming denial thing is complete B.S. Any scientist that denies it's happening are usually the ones that don't even know what they're talking about, we can clearly measure accurately what is happening to our own O-zone layer and how the pollution from our modern day activities are damaging it. Well thanks for proving my previous point. Lets say I did have the proof you were looking for. What keeps you from calling it "complete B.S"? You obviously have no problems saying that about other scientific proof and theories. Your set in your beliefs and that's fine but don't act high and mighty over science when you pick and choose which science you want to believe. After all from your post above it seems that any scientific data against your own is from people who don't know what they're talking about. Wh- what? What on Earth did I just read? 'Oh, I'll tell him that I have proof of God's existence, and then what he calls me out on it, I'll say that even if I did have proof for it, which I'm not going to bother supplying him with, he'll just call it BS any ways, so I might as well just continue on pretending that I do have proof of God's existence, even though I clearly don't.' Also, the reason we call Global Warming deniers bullshitters is because - like I stated before - we have undeniable proof that it IS happening. Therefore, the burden of proof that was upon us to prove that it's happening has been fulfilled. You get what I'm saying here? Global warming has been provided with evidence FOR, and we can test and provide evidence of that. However, on the other side of the theoretic pond, God has not been provided with evidence FOR, and thus - because we cannot test or provide evidence for His existence - we treat it as we would with any other hypothesis that has no proof: Call it utter nonsense, until the point where it can be proved correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilegium Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've heard...jeez, I don't know. Thousands? Hundreds easily. But lots and lots of people's "proof" for God. It almost always boils down to a personal experience that could be interpreted any number of ways. "I asked God to help me quit drinking, then I quit drinking." "I asked God for help with money and I got a new job." Stuff like that. Hardly convincing proof of an omnipotent omniscient world-creator. That and word games with logic. "Logic exists whether humans exist or not, logic is a product of a mind, so if there's no humans, it must've been God." Yeah, I've heard that one before. Shame you can't kick people in the head when they're not using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGEHEAD15 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've heard...jeez, I don't know. Thousands? Hundreds easily. But lots and lots of people's "proof" for God. It almost always boils down to a personal experience that could be interpreted any number of ways. "I asked God to help me quit drinking, then I quit drinking." "I asked God for help with money and I got a new job." Stuff like that. Hardly convincing proof of an omnipotent omniscient world-creator. That and word games with logic. "Logic exists whether humans exist or not, logic is a product of a mind, so if there's no humans, it must've been God." Yeah, I've heard that one before. Shame you can't kick people in the head when they're not using it. The thing with this way of proof is that people are confusing evidence with reason. If say, a guy falls 150 feet and survives, some who did not see what happened in the situation and heard of the incident may use reason to say 'perhaps the way he landed gave a rare position in which he safely survived', whilst others may use reason to say 'it can only be God's power that helped him to survive'. The problem is that both of those instances are in no way evidence or proof of what occurred, but rather simply two hypothesises. The only way we can use evidence to determine what happened during the fall is if we had someone who witnessed it, recorded the incident and studied the fall, as well as the man's body; perhaps coming up with a conclusion that the guy was wearing a parachute. People need to know the difference between the two, and stop using personal experiences, that can be explained so loosely, as proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilegium Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 You're alright, Edgehead. But I keep wanting to call you Egghead. Just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGEHEAD15 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 You're alright, Edgehead. But I keep wanting to call you Egghead. Just because. And I shall call you Squishy, and you shall be mine, and you shall be my squishy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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