The Walking Dead Discussion

[Saturi]

You know critics are normal people like you or I, right?

 

Their opinion isn't above ours. You keep bringing up critics like what they say should matter.

Yes I know.

What I dislike about some supposed professional critics, is that they are not staying neutral like they are supposed to and Review a Show properly but rather going towards to what they like themselves.

That's one of the reasons I don't give much on some movie Reviews and rather trying to watch them to see if I rather like it.

However, not all of them are like that and some of them were right at parts.

Not only because I agree that some characters were treated poorly and some cgi were horrible (the deer I was asking if it was a "digimon" ) but also because the first Episode was very strong and after that most episodes were lacking in Action and in character development.

Seriously I love negan as the bad guy and I still wished Sasha would bite him so we won't have to endure another whole Episode with negan monologues anymore. Not to even mention the tons of opportunities everyone had to kill him but no one tried (even when he was alone in Alexandria).

I know I'm the only person who cares...but when does Fear return?

Waiting for it too.

Did you like the webisodes?

[Creepia]

Nobody had opportunities to kill Negan. That's ridiculous. He was never on his own in Alexandria, he ALWAYS had people with him, always armed. Even if Carl managed to pop him in the head Negan's Saviors would open fire on the town and Carl would cause even more harm to the people he loved. Trust me, give me a scene with Negan at Alexandria and I can prove to you that he wasn't alone. Even if we didnt see his men walking right next to him, we always saw them in the background or we always saw him arriving in multiple trucks to give the allusion that he wasn't alone.

 

I'm bored of explaining that to people. Negan is not stupid enough to go anywhere alone. Even if someone did take a shot like Rosita did those people would suffer a fate even worse.

[Saturi]

He was entirely alone in the house with Carl and Olivia cooking spagetti. They could had easily take him out there and then sneak on the few that were around taking them down one after another.

Rick himself had a few opportunities when they were alone or any of the others while they still had guns but no hostages and he was in Alexandria with a few men only.

Heck it would had been even easier than in the finale in which they had the scavengers upon them aswell.

I know they managed to take the upper Hand thanks to sasha, the kingdom and hilltop helping after but they had also much more enemies to deal with instead of previously when he was there with a few of his men only.

[Creepia]

He was entirely alone in the house with Carl and Olivia cooking spagetti. They could had easily take him out there and then sneak on the few that were around taking them down one after another.

Rick himself had a few opportunities when they were alone or any of the others while they still had guns but no hostages and he was in Alexandria with a few men only.

Heck it would had been even easier than in the finale in which they had the scavengers upon them aswell.

I know they managed to take the upper Hand thanks to sasha, the kingdom and hilltop helping after but they had also much more enemies to deal with instead of previously when he was there with a few of his men only.

 

So what happens when Carl kills Negan in their house? The Saviors hanging around in Alexandria (they were definitely there because there were multiple trucks with him when he left town) eventually get weirded out that their boss hasn't shown his face in a while. They investigate and probably find Negan's body. What do they do then? They shoot up the town and execute everyone until they find out who did it. Then they execute Carl.

 

Okay let's pretend Carl somehow manages to kill Negan and the few Saviors with him. Rick & co return home. Some time passes and eventually ALL the other Saviors start to investigate why they haven't seen or heard from their boss for a while. Probably led by Simon and Gavin, maybe Arat and Dwight aswell, the entire army go to Alexandria (the place they knew he was at before.) Something has clearly happened to the guy, he wouldn't go somewhere without telling his Saviors, he isn't stupid. They KNOW something has gone wrong. The entire Savior army destroy Alexandria and raze it to the ground, Rick, Michonne, Rosita, Carl, Tara, Gabriel, Eugene, Tobin and everyone else are slaughtered and Hilltop are left on their own without an alliance. Alexandria did not have The Kingdom as allies at that point, hell they didn't even have any guns. The Saviors will have wasted all of our favourite characters all because an idiot kid killed their leader. The only characters remaining would be Daryl as a prisoner, Maggie, Sasha at Hilltop and The Kingdom guys. Could they try and muster up some resistance? Yeah maybe, but there is a reason as to why Rick needs all 3 communities to coincide as well as the numbers the Scavengers provided. Even then they were outnumbered. Eventually Hilltop and The Kingdom would fall and the story would be over.

 

There is a reason The Saviors are "all Negan." It's not just a slogan, Negan is making sure that his followers share his ideals and he manipulates them into thinking that through fear and it has clearly worked. Simon would surely take over should Negan die.

 

There have been no points in the story so far where killing Negan would solve anything. He's always surrounded by people and even if somehow someone managed to kill him, it would mean major repercussions for our beloved characters. Repercussions they are not ready for, hence why the entire second half of the season had to be spent building up to war. They cannot just take out Negan and be done with it, they need to take out his entire army to win.

[Creepy Bro]

Noticed last night that another character from TWD also appeared on HBO's series from years ago, 'Treme'.... first it was Michonne (Danai Gurira) that made an appearance, and then it was Dianne (Kerry Cahill).

 

Always funny to notice little appearances in an older TV series...

[Saturi]

 

He was entirely alone in the house with Carl and Olivia cooking spagetti. They could had easily take him out there and then sneak on the few that were around taking them down one after another.

Rick himself had a few opportunities when they were alone or any of the others while they still had guns but no hostages and he was in Alexandria with a few men only.

Heck it would had been even easier than in the finale in which they had the scavengers upon them aswell.

I know they managed to take the upper Hand thanks to sasha, the kingdom and hilltop helping after but they had also much more enemies to deal with instead of previously when he was there with a few of his men only.

 

So what happens when Carl kills Negan in their house? The Saviors hanging around in Alexandria (they were definitely there because there were multiple trucks with him when he left town) eventually get weirded out that their boss hasn't shown his face in a while. They investigate and probably find Negan's body. What do they do then? They shoot up the town and execute everyone until they find out who did it. Then they execute Carl.

 

Okay let's pretend Carl somehow manages to kill Negan and the few Saviors with him. Rick & co return home. Some time passes and eventually ALL the other Saviors start to investigate why they haven't seen or heard from their boss for a while. Probably led by Simon and Gavin, maybe Arat and Dwight aswell, the entire army go to Alexandria (the place they knew he was at before.) Something has clearly happened to the guy, he wouldn't go somewhere without telling his Saviors, he isn't stupid. They KNOW something has gone wrong. The entire Savior army destroy Alexandria and raze it to the ground, Rick, Michonne, Rosita, Carl, Tara, Gabriel, Eugene, Tobin and everyone else are slaughtered and Hilltop are left on their own without an alliance. Alexandria did not have The Kingdom as allies at that point, hell they didn't even have any guns. The Saviors will have wasted all of our favourite characters all because an idiot kid killed their leader. The only characters remaining would be Daryl as a prisoner, Maggie, Sasha at Hilltop and The Kingdom guys. Could they try and muster up some resistance? Yeah maybe, but there is a reason as to why Rick needs all 3 communities to coincide as well as the numbers the Scavengers provided. Even then they were outnumbered. Eventually Hilltop and The Kingdom would fall and the story would be over.

 

There is a reason The Saviors are "all Negan." It's not just a slogan, Negan is making sure that his followers share his ideals and he manipulates them into thinking that through fear and it has clearly worked. Simon would surely take over should Negan die.

 

There have been no points in the story so far where killing Negan would solve anything. He's always surrounded by people and even if somehow someone managed to kill him, it would mean major repercussions for our beloved characters. Repercussions they are not ready for, hence why the entire second half of the season had to be spent building up to war. They cannot just take out Negan and be done with it, they need to take out his entire army to win.

 

As we could saw though most of the People he has are rather doing what he asks out of fear, even Dwight would turn on him immediately.

So if he would had died and everyone in the sanctuary would find about it, most People there would be rather happy and rebel against the ones that were for negan (which were only few compared to the amount there). Of Course many are Cowards like eugene of fat Joe that darryl killed even he was harmless and told him to go, he wouldn't try to stop him or even tell anyone.

Storywise it would be of course less to tell but I think we can agree that they could had make the whole thing more believable in the process and have negan doing more bad things while there is more presense of his people around him.

Seriously, when rick had a weapon in his hand when they were entirely alone in the first Episode, he could had easily killed him at least twice (he even had his back turned to rick because he is overconfident like that).

 

Then just return back, do as if he is still shaken up and give the others a signal to attack.

They were all THAT enraged that the couple of people that were looking after them would had been dispatched in no time.

 

So what I'm saying is that I understand why they didn't took down negan yet (I love jeffrey and know him from several movies and a series or two btw ^_^) and why the series need him to Progress, writingwise though they could had done a bit better with this ark cause quite a few episodes of this season dragged a bit and wasn't exciting at all.

The old exciting feeling previous seasons had given us were just mostly missing.

Like danger being around every corner and such. The surprises and unpredictability is just gone.

[Creepia]

If Rick killed Negan when they were alone in that first episode then the rest of The Saviors would have killed everyone he loved, everyone they already had in their captivity. You need to understand that simply killing Negan isn't enough. It's killing the entire Savior population. Rick can't return and give "the signal to attack". What are they going to attack with? How are they going to do anything on their knees without Simon and all the others instantly pumping them full of bullets?

 

I repeat just so you can understand. There have NO moments where killing Negan would have solved or saved anyone so far. Killing Negan just means his hundreds of followers would completely annihilate everyone. Hence why they need All Out War. You can pick out individuals who might not help The Saviors such as Dwight, but Negan has a hell of a lot of loyal followers. Followers he's kept safe and given a life too.

[Beardd]

This is such a stupid argument.

 

Hitler lived for quite a while as well. I'm sure there would have been chances to kill him. But then like Creep said, you'd have to kill off the entire Nazi population.

[Beardd]

Just bought the first two seasons of Fear The Walking Dead on bluray for $35. Worth it?

 

Haven't watched a single episode.

[Creepia]

Saw season 1 and half of season 2. You might like it, but it's generally a bit crap. Poor writing.

[PaperThinWalls]

The season 1 finale and the last half of the second season I found enjoyable. But mostly the show isn't that great.

[Future™]

man they got me pumped up with the season finale. Would rather see the all out war in the last episode though it kinda leave me hanging with what we had.

[Saturi]

If Rick killed Negan when they were alone in that first episode then the rest of The Saviors would have killed everyone he loved, everyone they already had in their captivity. You need to understand that simply killing Negan isn't enough. It's killing the entire Savior population. Rick can't return and give "the signal to attack". What are they going to attack with? How are they going to do anything on their knees without Simon and all the others instantly pumping them full of bullets?

 

I repeat just so you can understand. There have NO moments where killing Negan would have solved or saved anyone so far. Killing Negan just means his hundreds of followers would completely annihilate everyone. Hence why they need All Out War. You can pick out individuals who might not help The Saviors such as Dwight, but Negan has a hell of a lot of loyal followers. Followers he's kept safe and given a life too.

First of all in the Comics in all out war, after Negan is getting captured, Dwight stops the other saviours from further attacking (as far as I remember) and the listen to him.

Since Dwight was there with "everyone rick loved", he would had done the same thing if Rick would had came back with lucile in his Hands or a other proof that Negan is dead.

So there is nothing stupid about that if you think how things could had gone.

 

Like I said before though, it would had closed Negans arc very fast so I understand why they went that way and tried to give it some longelivity.

As about his loyal followers, they are a minority if you count the amount of people he has in the sanctuary, doing what they are doing only out of fear and partially for survival purposes.

Just bought the first two seasons of Fear The Walking Dead on bluray for $35. Worth it?

 

Haven't watched a single episode.

It depends if you like rather more Action or more character development with kinda lots of Drama.

Some People dislike it because it has less Action then the Walking dead, others say they like it more because of it's slower pacing.

 

I found a few episodes kinda weak and disliked some decisions upon certain characters (Charlie/Alex from the webisodes with the flight) but in Overall I'm excited to watch further.

Check out the webisodes of Passage too. Not sure if one or both characters makes it to the show or not at all but it's only a small 16 Minutes Story that is nice to watch.

[Creepia]

Well you clearly haven't understood the Negan storyline from season 7.

 

Also you cannot say that Negan's followers are the minority. How do you know? Have we spent time with all them? They do fear Negan, but he also gives them safety and food. If Negan dies someone else will take over and keep the same system going. People don't want to leave Sanctuary because it's safe. Also stop using the comics as a reference. The show does not followit all the time.

 

Everything you say there is a logical answer for I'm not sure why you're still arguing it, you obviously haven't understood it.

[Saturi]

Well you clearly haven't understood the Negan storyline from season 7.

 

Also you cannot say that Negan's followers are the minority. How do you know? Have we spent time with all them? They do fear Negan, but he also gives them safety and food. If Negan dies someone else will take over and keep the same system going. People don't want to leave Sanctuary because it's safe. Also stop using the comics as a reference. The show does not followit all the time.

 

Everything you say there is a logical answer for I'm not sure why you're still arguing it, you obviously haven't understood it.

As I wrote before I UNDERSTAND why they went that way(they want the arc to be long and have a baddie that does some damage after all) and since you ignored what I said, Dwight would had prevented the others from killing the ones kneeling and waiting if Rick would had a proof that Negan was dead.

 

What others might had tried or not from the ones in the sanctuary, none of us can know.

I also said that some are staying with Negan for survivability or out of fear, this shows that not everyones reasons are fear.

If they had went the logical way, all would had concluded within a few episodes and less than half of a season which is bad for the series.

So it's normal that they did what they did.

 

Anyway, who do you think dies in all out war?

My prediction is

- Shiva

- Morgan

- Erik

- Heath

- Some of the characters we saw a few times from hilltop, kingdom and sanctuary.

 

I think that other Major characters will rather die when the whisperers are included.

[Creepia]

Yeah ... no, I'm done. You don't understand the workings of the story.

 

 

Shiva is dying because that CGI is too expensive to keep up for a long time.

[Saturi]

Yeah ... no, I'm done. You don't understand the workings of the story.

 

 

Shiva is dying because that CGI is too expensive to keep up for a long time.

Actually I do but whatever...

Yeah, I think that shiva will be a goner pretty fast, they did similar things with other cgi creatures in other series to lower the Budget pretty fast too.

[Creepia]

You don't otherwise you would understand why Negan hasn't been killed yet other than "bcos the story needs him hur dur." Just admit it.

[Saturi]

You don't otherwise you would understand why Negan hasn't been killed yet other than "bcos the story needs him hur dur." Just admit it.

I already admitted that it is WEAK writing on their part.

Alone the fact that they sent Sasha in with a sniper rifle even she could had waited another day so they can pull the holy storyline partially indicates it.

She was neither "enraged", nor really THAT trigger happy (unlike Rosita).

Also her reasoning that Rosita was more valuable to the group when she was actually as valuable was bullshit.

It was out of her character to act like this and there was no reason to do it that way making her look like a martyr or kamikaze all the way.

Sacrificing herself after she got captured was ok and it was a great way to go out (at least her death wasn't meaningless and started the war in the process). The way to it though was weak writing as was some negan parts too.

 

You just don't seem to get the reason why I found it weak but it's ok.

To each their own.

[Beardd]

Lol why the hell did you get him going again Creep?

[Saturi]

Lol why the hell did you get him going again Creep?

He loves arguing and getting aggressive when others are having a different opinion to his.

[Creepia]

 

Lol why the hell did you get him going again Creep?

He loves arguing and getting aggressive when others are having a different opinion to his.

 

 

No not really don't paint me to be like that. I'm arguing because I genuinely disagree, I think you're wrong and you don't seem to understand the fact that killing Negan so far WOULD NOT HAVE SOLVED ANYTHING.

 

I don't care if you have a different opinion, I couldn't give less of a shit, but you are clearly wrong. It's not weak writing, well that is subjective ... it's just that they've made logical reasons as to why Negan hasn't been killed yet which you can't seem to acknowledge. If at any moment during season 7 someone killed Negan, The Saviors (under the command of Simon, probably) would have slaughtered Alexandria, Hilltop and probably Kingdom until they found out who did it. Some Saviors might leave, but hundreds will stay because they have food and a roof. You keep banging on about the comics and weak writing and whatnot, but you can't seem to get the idea that again, and I'll say it once more; killing Negan will not solve anything. Hence why they need to go "All Out War."

 

Christ alive man. :P :P :P :P

 

sorry just thought I'd post as many unnecessary emoji's as you.

[Saturi]

I don't need to paint you like that, you already proved it all by yourself.

 

As you will probably see in season 8 since they are going by the comics with it, after Negan is captured, dwight stops the saviours from doing further damage and the seem to listen to him. So who are you to say that it would had played differently if rick would had killed negan earlier?

Dwight wanted to get rid of Negan by the first opportunity he could find (with the help of others) and it already showed at the end of season 7 as you could see for yourself.

 

So you can say I'm wrong the whole day but truth is that in season 8 you will see with your own eyes why I stand on my opinion and I really hope that at least then you will aknowledge that I clearly understand what I'm saying and that I'm not wrong about this.

My smiley wasn't unnessecary, yours on the other are proving that I didn't paint you wrong in any way.

If I'm still alive till then: See you in season 8.

[Beardd]

*Censored*. You just gave away shit I didn't want to see.

 

...and regardless, Dwight had to be built up before something like that would happen. Doesn't change anything.

[Creepia]

Yeah spoilers ...