AONO.

"It's time to shake things up around here!"

I'm reading the opposite. That it actually had nothing to do with it...

Of course it did. That's not to say they have "dropped the ball". I mean, I that's why I'm interested what people mean by that. Because tbh, I don't think he would d much with being a world champion. That's not saying I liked Lesnar being in the position that he was in. It's not even solely due to the losses in itself, I think his worst period was with how his holding of MITB briefcase played out, and then that horrible thing with Ziggler, Drew and The Shield. I'm not sure hot to explain it exactly at the moment, but I remember after his loss to Lesnar people going "oh, yeah, Braun looks like shit now" and they decided that he looks like shit and that's it. Dumb part about the Lesnar feuds was that he took out Braun, Joe, and others with one F5, but it took multiple ones to take out Reigns. Whole roster was suffering due to that Lesnar vs Reigns crap. What I'm trying to say is... there wasn't even a ball to begin with. Yes, he was over because he was fun, that doesn't mean he could have been some super mega star or even a good world champ. Yet, in spite of all that, he still is a pretty big star in WWE.

I don't get it, you are not saying that he should have won a world title, but yet still the dropped the ball on him? That's why I was asking how did they drop the ball on him? Credibility? He can have a feud with someone and go back on the rampage whenever. Currently he is feuding with Nakamura and has to deal with Sami Zayn and Cesaro at the same time. Not too long ago, there was that feud with Lashley where they both were just *censored*ing each other up. And he has been a top star for a long time now like I've said...

how did they really drop the ball on him? or squander him? yes, his booking was shitty on some ocasions, and yes, he was one of the many victims of Lesnar hogging the title for longest time... but despite all that, he was one of the WWEs top stars, and still arguably is. It's not like he got the Bray Wyatt treatement. tbh, I never saw him getting the main strap even during his peak period. And I don't think his potential world title run would met peoples expectations either. He is probably taking the strap from Nakamura anyway, and that's pretty cool. also, his feuds and were fun yes... but still kinda lacked in the match department. if anything, I'd argue that they dropped the ball on Joe a couple if times. he is still one of the best promo guys too, and always *censored*ing deadly.

I remember watch his match vs Orton, I didn't really paid attention to the build up as it seemed like he is just being fed to Orton... but damn was Inpleasently surprised. I think he put him down with WSS and didn't go for the pin, and thought, "oh ok, here comes the RKO...", but he did another one and 1, 2 , 3... and then the no nonsense hall of pain promo... that was dope.

Damn, shouldn't have gone over the tweet comments... because I saw AssaultDriver, lmao I don't know. I don't think there was ever a consensus on where did the concussion actually happened. I mean, people jumping on her, when they don't exactly know what happened anyway. That shit is lame. Besides, this just seems worded poorly, and kinda lacks context.

lmaooo

Except, we DON'T all agree on it when it involves mental illness. So, again...you're viewing it with your own perspective, and ignoring other perspectives...and the situation is not at all "one thing or another"...but a combination thereof. As for naming the program after Nancy or Daniel? No...that wouldn't make any sense, because they were not the ones afflicted with the illness. The Lou Gehrig's foundation is named that way because he was the one with the disease. You name health programs after people who are afflicted by the illness. That is what you do. You don't need to weigh whether they were good or bad people when you do that...especially if they are deceased. Chris Benoit was the first documented case of a professional wrestler essentially damaging his brain so badly that it changed who he was. Hence, any medical program with the goal of educating other professional wrestlers on that subject would do well to use his legacy as a jump-off point. Ok, I can accept that. Yes, I'm sure people not all treat it as such. How does that negate my other points? EDIT: saw your edit now. What illness is that? Are we talking about illness or brain damage due to years and years of trauma? Those are not the same things. maybe we should refer it to as a condition. And yes, Daniel and Nancy were victims of that condition. That's what we are talking about. But now, you are mixing things. It's not the same to name something over a disease a person has succumbed to and had no kind of control over. And a condition that was probably caused by negligence and low education. Those 2 differences are very important. Besides, Benoits condition and mainly thought process right before and during the act will never be fully understood, so there will probably never be clear understanding on what kind of impact his condition had on his thought process itself and ultimately his act. Again, the point of naming something after someone, like an educational program is a positive connotation and association. What did he exactly do to be important for that educational program? You could make an argument that he was a victim of the program... that kind of life. But ultimately Nancy and Daniel became that more than anybody. That's completely not the same as naming an illness after somebody that he or any other person had any choice in it. If I had a black and white view. I'd be calling him a murderer and be done with it. https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1217523928828203008

It's not a black and white outlook at all. The context of the tragedy is what it is, we all know it and agree on it. However, the last act and the act itself is still the murder of his wife and child, and then taking his own life. That's the part that is black in the story that is grey. Like I've said before, doing the program in the first place negates the need of raising the red flag by naming it after Chris Benoit. You name it after him, you put it in the context of something that deserves to be remembered. It doesn't in that way. However it needs to be remembered in that way that it teach us something, so that kind of tragedy is not repeated. But like I've said it before, the point of naming something after someone is so that name would be associated with that achievement. And his act is not an achievement or something that deserves to be kept in good memory. That doesn't mean that the tragedy itself will be forgotten. Or the lives of Nancy and David. Naming the program after Nancy or Daniel? That makes much, much more sense.

Partaining to the award itself... I don't know man, "hey look at all those people and children that they gave props to for their strength and human spirit. Wait who are Daniel and Nancy? What did they do? Oh, those are the kid and wife of a wrestler that used to work for us. He murdered them, and then himself. We share the blame though, we completely ignored his mental and physical well being which led to that tragedy. Oh..."

I'm sorry, that's a completely wrong outlook. I understand what you are getting at with "we shouldn't erase it from memory or history so we can learn from it" , but that's not how giving recognition works. The point of the program in itself is that you prevent those things. It wouldn't have to raise any kind of red flags if you are doing the said program to begin with. And yes, if you name something after someone it should be in positive recognition.

no, pretending he never existed is wrong, but thats far off from naming thing after him... You name things after people who deserve recognition for their achievements. And the award thing... I'm sorry what? That would be incredibly bizzare at the least. edit: saw your edit. well that's the point of not mentioning him, they want to clean their hands from that. which is shitty. but I don't see it ever changing. that would mean they would have to change absolutely everything about their presentation, marketing, and product itself.

for a moment I thought you were talikng about Big Daddy Meltz. In all seriousness, just watched some bits of it, and I see what you mean... At first I thought that, he doesn't sound like such a bright guy... I mean I know that's *censored*ed up... but idk, I really don't want to demean him, he had everything but a simple or a normal life. But that whole interview has a weird vibe, and the interviwer acts or looks like he is talking to a child. Think it got reuploaded. Just search for Chris Van Vliet lol Is it weird I've never watched his interviews before only cause his name sounds dumb to me? Doesn't seem like you are missing much tbh.

for me it says video is unavailable, did it get removed? He thinks his dad will be put in HOF soon? Boy...

that's... incredibly dumb.

tbh it's dumb to think he won't apologize. maybe not in public, but I'm sure he will in private.

goddamn, didn't know that. yeah, that's *censored*ing horrible.

I was going to post the tweet with HHH video, but Gen beat me to it. Ok, my first reaction was... what.the.*Censored*. dude... but then I rrealized, wait how the *Censored* could she have kids that she doesn't know of? how does that joke even work? But, then again, yeah I disagree that it's cool to joke about her past. I mean, your boss, in publlc, while being recorded? What the *Censored* Paul? It's not cool because i's not something that should weigh her down, and yes, it still does. Especially with wrestling fans who are, let's say are privy to sexism and sexist jokes, and can be toxic in a lot of ways very often. Ok, reading the whole post again Gen... I'm sorry, but your point is kinda ridiculous, maybe you didn't meant it, but what you are trying to explain is actually bullying. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but joking about someones past sexual activity is just immature to me. I don't find it funny being it partains to men, or women.And let's not forget how much of slut shaming Paige had to endure, even in public eye the whole time. I mean don't get me wrong, people can joke about it, free will and all that, doesn't mean that they aren't immature dicks.

*blood money yeah, damn, there is no defending that one. uncalled for.

That's what I am saying, ain't it? I don't know the guy so I can't make a clear decision what kind of person he is. But due to the apology and the people around him that believe him, I'm giving him a benefit of the doubt that he is and will be a better person. Where did I say that is normal behavior? What the *Censored* man? Stop making shit up.

I agree we don't know 100% what's happened, but the timeline of events can paint a pretty clear picture. Alright, what is that middle ground? Just ignoring the issue altogether? Yeah, and? I can think of quite a few people who care about a man with mental health issues not suffering anymore. OK, maybe blackmail wan't the right word, but Lars getting manipulated into it in a way Moolah would be proud of does not seem far fetched in the slightest. I never said people couldn't do gay porn, or any porn for that matter, of their own choice. The thing is though, most of them don't suddenly do a complete 180 and launch a bunch of hateful messages less 5 years later. That to me, makes me think Lars didn't have much of a say in the matter, far more than just being in the closet. I don't see how if there is clear evidence that points that way, and denying it makes the problem worse. Sadly, deviants exist in all forms. Male, female, gay, bisexual, straight, you name it. man, you really have to stop with shit like that. "We don't know anything, but we can paint a pretty clear picture". What time of events? What do you know EXCACTLY other than that he did gay porn, bodybuilding and later posted homophobic and racist shit. And about a decade later when he was on the main WWE stage that he has some mental health issues, but don't know anything exact about that either. There is no "evidence" about anything. If he claims that he is a different person than before when he posted that stuff and people around him believe him, than yes, I will give him that benefit of the doubt and i hope he gets treatment he deserves and that he does well as a better person. But sorry, making crazy theories about sensitive issues about a persons past on the internet is not my cup of tea. And I said what I said about mens gay porn and making assumptions on it because it is still a huge taboo for men. That's kinda clear. I have no idea where you are getting at with this post. It's made out to be like gay porn was something wrong that he did. That is my whole point. --------------------- Also, I tried looking it up, but I can't find anything. there is actually little to no info about what he was allegedly involved in, other than "adult content of homosexual variety". That's literally it. And that could be a dozen of things. Nvm, people on reddit say it's legit hc porn.

Benefit of the doubt about what exactly? He himself didn't say anything about it. We only know that he did gay porn and body building and later on the BB forum made homophobic remarks and racial slurs. And that he has mental health issues, but also have no idea what kind of issues nor nothing. Other than that it's only just assumptions.

^ Didn't mean that there was no pressure for that kind of thing at all. And I don't mean to take anything away from that kind of situations at all. I'm sure there is, same as with women in some industries. That post was not intended as "oh it was his decision, *Censored* him lol" I'm just saying making solid presumptions like that based on nothing isn't helping anybody.

Except you don't know what happened to him. There is ton of middle ground between suddenly going out of your way to support him with only made up presumptions about his past and ridiculing him more and hating on the guy or whatever. And it was already very well known that he has mental health issues. And even though it's ironic due to the scandal with shitty past behavior... I mean, who cares really? And being "blackmailed" about doing it, lmao.... Why? People can't do gay porn as their own decision? Because they like it? They need the money or whatever the reason is. You could conclude that his homophobic talk was him trying to cover it up in a toxic environment. Talking about how he was preyed upon and whatever without any clear information whatsoever is making it also harder for people who are always facing the stigma of gay men being sexual deviants.