AONO.

During the whole time, from his debut until they've split? I mean, yeah he was a babyface, not during that whole time. Yup. Can't think of a time when they weren't together. I'm saying... he wasn't a babyface during that time period... But like I said, nevermind, I thought we were talking about something different regarding moutpieces and babyfaces.

Ok, nevermind I thought this was a different kind of a discussion During the whole time, from his debut until they've split? I mean, yeah he was a babyface, not during that whole time.

Natalya & The Hart Dynasty But generally in the past it wasn't uncommon. Most famous duo probably being Hulk Hogan & Jimmy Hart and Randy Savage & Liz Well, Jimmy Hart is mostly seen as a heel mouthpiece, and Macho Man & Liz... well Macho Man was a heel and always abused Liz until later. That's why I wrote later, when M3J was more specific. I mean, if babyface had a mouthpiece, they most likely started as heels, and when they turn babyface the role of the moutpiece would fade away more. Yes. Yes we did Damn Did he use him much as a babyface though?

well I think the point is, that if you can get over as a babyface, you don't need a mouthpiece

Oh I meant like, good pairings

are there even any from the past?

Ok, on that note. Well I didn't like that they just had to have that mini feud. Imean actually it was only a series of matches nothing more. And yes, the matches were good. But still, every time when there is a ex masked luchador on the main roster they just have to have a feud with a masked luchador as soon as possible. I mean I get it, styles will probably mesh well even tough that doesn't really matter since it's the main roster.. it's still annoys me because it immediately lumps them in a specific category of a "mexican wrestler". Mexican and latin wrestlers are always in a category of their own and that is so annoying. EDIT: I forgot, especially heels

It sucks that Andrade is still doing the same thing (nothing) since debuting a year and a half ago. I mean if he is booked he isn't booked weak that's for sure... But come on... And I still can't get over him being only "Andrade"... Does that name sound noteworthy? Or can it be a marquee name? I can't picture it.

I don't get the hate for Carillo. He is silky smooth with his moves and not tedious to watch. I found his match with Seth Rollins for example to be pretty good. I mean I don't get what makes him blander than a lot of people on the roster... I'm taking him over Cedric for example at the moment.

Not really unpopular but NXTs is so much better. So many women I wanna see hold the belt there I was just going to compare it with NXT... What they do there is that you legit want to see who is going for the belt next. They actually build them, or at least try to build them up. For example, while Shayna and Io will feud for the belt, you will have, let's say Bianca rising through the ranks. On the main roster though, every third feud for the title will be worth watching and won't have some shitty friend story. While, other women who don't go for the belt will probably be involved in some random total diva promo feud or a shitty friend story. But to be fair, it's not like that there is any "rising through the ranks" booking on the mens main roster either, so...

tbh everything on the main roster is so lazy and sucks so bad. I legit can't find one thing that excite me. like, It's not like it's been anything special for a while now, but you could find some things that were worthwhile... now it's just so depressing and boring all around.

if you limit it, you restrict tgem even more... in an already restricted and oversaturated envoirement. NXT matches limit the outside ring action more than the main roster. I don't like formulaic outside action either, but I see the reasoning behind it.

@King ryder fan.

. wrong topic

I think what Gen is saying that Brock as a character is a good heel. Which I agree with. Booking of him, however is what drives away people.

Ladt Shit is a direct knee to the head or back of the head, many times without a knee pad... Doesn't even look weak.

thats maybe unpopular in Vinces office

true lol Sometimes I get the feeling people are over him, so that's the "why" for that post.

not sure if unpopular but I don't see it discussed, or nor did I've seen it mentioned... Bryan should still be in the conversation for the best in the world. Maybe he is, but I don't see him in those conversations really anymore. However, the top is changing faster then ever, with more people getting exposure etc etc... Also, Bryans SDL run since coming back to the ring is arguably his best work in the WWE. I mean sure, during the beginning of his heel run, I think he needed a bit to pick up steam as a character, but ultimately he delivered. He plays a obsessive psycho really well too... I mean, I think it gets overlooked kinda. In ring, he is still on top of his game and can have a great match with basically everyone. I don't think this is even debatable. His in ring psychology is still classic, rarely we see what he does on the current main roster. And the way his matches work, look so effortless and natural... On another note, it looks like he wants to put over other talent every chance he gets, and he does it effortlessly also...

I feel you on a lot of stuff EJ!, but I think on the issues I do, they are kinda unpopular here recently. But I don't want to get into them a lot since they were... well, a lot. But I'll weigh on on the Gargano bit. I think that people tend to overlook some parts on the whole kicking out of everything situation. I mean, ok, if you don't like that in matches, sure, that's your prerogative, but I think there are more elements to it than people give it credit. Like, I always read how in the Ciampa feud, crazy false finishes were kinda justified, and sure, I agree. But before and after that (with the Cole exception), did he really kick out of finishers, and if he did, won after that? Back to Gargano vs Cole feud. The whole Gargano arch was that of a superhero (which was supper annoying to me btw, but hey), good gone bad and than good again. Then all the "pulling all the stops", "heart and soul going above and beyond" stuff came, and they were playing on that. Was it annoying? Sometimes yes, and sometimes no (for me). First match against Cole was pretty good, and even it got flack for the false finishes, it could have easily gone either way. It was WM weekend, this was a huge match for Adam Cole, but even bigger for Gargano. For him it was life or death for that title. His story arch finally came full circle and he won the NXT championship after all he has been through battling Ciampa, and battling himself. In that story his heart, sould and stamina prevailed. That was the story of that match. And it was played really well by both guys. The second match, well to keep it short... he failed. It was again the point of doubt for him. BUT, the big difference is that he had to put over Adam Cole now. First off, it would probably look kind of silly if he won with just one finisher after that crazy match the last time. Sure, it was overblown at some points, like with the PCS to the outside spot, but even then, it's not like he just covered him and that's that. He had to get him back in the ring, etc etc. Second of all, Cole had to win alone, as he did. And the third point is, and maybe even the most important is that Adam Cole looked like a *censored*ing star when he won, because he beat Johnny Takeover, Johnny Wrestling, the heart and the yadda yadda, alone, after all that. And hell after the match, during the in ring celebration, Adam Cole like the champion that did the impossible. And boom (no pun intended), you have a well built up champion that doesn't depend on his friends, but can also use them if he wants to. TL;DR: It made sense for the story. And I swear, I really don't believe I'm over analyzing or even trying to. It just seemed like a simple story that worked really good with everybody doing their part really well, hell, even the announcers and the production around it. And about the third match, well, to put it simply I think that's why it ended the way it did. There was literally nowhere else to go other than try to kill each other. Tbh, I really don't get the comparisons. Talking about false finishes only seems superficial. Cena or Reigns stories, if you wish. Were rarely, or ever that simple but rich. Yes, they were simple and it worked for some audience obviously. The most basic premise are similar, true, but that's it. What I'm wondering also is if the people who are taking the issue with it, think about NJPW matches. Especially "the big ones". I mean, this was kinda... that. I'm not trying to be ironic, I'm really interested. Cus my bro was always finding it so cool, with all the superfinishers and stuff, but then was kinda annoyed with this and find it didn't made sense? ...What?

For me , I just want to see more of Johnny Wrestling as a character. Develop that, and lose superhero arch they did. It worked with Ciampa, and the whole hero vs vilian dynamic, and even tough at later stages I wasn't much into it... it was perfect, for that. But it translated too much into feud with Cole. Hopefully it's over now.

and other people post on twitter and IG because they don't want attention?

I'm not usually into this but... they do look like good fitting couple from the outside. Best of everything to them.

I'm not sure how to put this into words but... This past few weeks people are commenting how Murphy looks like a star on SDL. And I think he has pretty good matches, he has excellee in the ring for a good while now. But a star? I legit don't see it. Like, even on 205, I never got what his charater was. He looks pretty generic to me really. Is it something that I'm missing here? Watching him against Roman and Bryan was cool. Very solid matches. He carries himself well also... But I can see them giving him a small midcard-upper midcard push, maybe even giving him a title run but with no real storyline. Because unless they give him somekind of gimmick, or him coming up with something, I can't see him going very far.

Never got that vibe from him. Dude seems kinda natural. But tbh they should react that way for big moments and big moves. They should sell the characters and the match. At Takovers at least, one of the reasons I think those matches, production of the show and the presentation work so well is that they are amazingly balanced between excitment and not being over the top. I would describe commentary like that also. It just doesn't seem fake like. Nigel has a distinguishable voice and stylefor sure, but I'm taking that over Saxton, Phillips and that guy I always confuse with Phillips... I don't mind them really because I hardly even notice them. And I don't think Corey Graves is anything special, but I also don't think he is bad as people make him out to be. He sounds more genuine than the rest. I remember people liking him when he started on RAW... Cole is most annoying defiently and he uses the buzzwords more than anyone... And like Creep said, I'm sure a lot of them would be a lot better if they had more freedom of expression.