SaturnT3

That's my point. I don't think we've ever seen someone brand new to the series debut that late and make the next game. Kairi Sane would be a completely different situation than Jade Cargill. I'm also not sure they'll bring in Cargill as a huge deal. Cody was AEW Cody, but they kind of billed him as a big return rather than a big star they got from "the other guys". Being that Jade Cargill has only wrestled in AEW, bringing her in as "a big star" kind of presents AEW as a bigger deal than they probably want to.

But is there a reason to think the DLC cutoffs are as late as October or November? The most recent debuts of 2K23 DLC wrestlers were all in 2021, unless you want to pretend Uncle Howdy was anything more than an attire. If wrestlers debuting that late in the year could make DLC, why didn't Blair Davenport make 2K22's DLC? I'm not arguing against anyone's inclusion, I just don't expect it based on history. If people who wrestled on WWE programming in July of the previous year didn't make the next game's DLC in past years, I'm not going to expect people who haven't even been signed a week away from October to be in next year's game.

They also have to do a bunch of work after mocap. Again, there's always been a cutoff, and unless there's a delay/later release I'd think we're past that point. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good thing if they squeaked her in, if anything I think the roster badly needs big new additions. I'm just saying history tells me not to expect it. We're talking about a game releasing (presumably) in 7 months including someone who not only hasn't debuted yet, but might not even be signed yet.

I've never seen anything that makes me believe they do motion capture year round. We've seen multiple indie wrestlers talk about motion capture wrapping. If they haven't finished motion capture for 2K24 by now, I'd be concerned.

I think expecting Jade is setting yourself up for disappointment. Even if she debuts this month, has any new wrestler ever debuted as late as September and made a game releasing in March-ish?

I've been expecting them to go big on nostalgia for the past few years, given the state of the current roster, but every year I've been wrong. I just don't think we're getting more than a few characters - something like the Ruthless Aggression stuff in 2K23 or the NWO stuff in 2K22. I think both the VB game and the UPW game will have more ECW wrestlers than 2K24. If anything, 2K24 might only get like the Dudleys or something, and there's a good chance that would only be the WWE version. For whatever reason, 2K doesn't seem interested in bringing in a significant amount of wrestlers from the past.

I'm thinking/hoping they finally bite the bullet and combine Universe and MyGM. Current MyGM, with the rivalry control of Universe would tick all the boxes. They'd just need a "free play" mode for people who want to book without managing the company. And while we're at it, drop Showcase. That mountain of "legends" people thought it would bring is never coming, and when you have to lock some of the most popular wrestlers of all time behind it to get people to play it you know deep down it's not a mode most people want to play. I think the most interesting thing about 2K24 (as has been with the last few games) will be the roster. A lot of people are expecting massive cuts with the merger being finalized next week.

I'm pretty sure the anime company that created him still owns the Liger license. Either way, I don't assume they were working on Liger because they did the Starcade gear for Rey and the arena. They did the Souled Out arena too, but I wouldn't assume that meant they were planning on adding any wrestler from that card. Regardless, I'd love to have Muta, I'm just not getting my hopes up. I don't see DLC packs of wrestlers as a "benefit" when they could be part of the base game. I'd rather have wrestling centric Originals style DLC - Some story content to play through with alt attires, moves, arenas, and weapon skins to unlock. I think the issue with Originals was that they deviated from wrestling. If they stuck to wrestling canon I think it could be well received. It was a mountain of content.

I've seen some people hoping for Muta based on his HOF inclusion, but we just went through that with Liger. It'd be cool, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it. I wouldn't mind them going with a whole new DLC structure, to be honest. If it's going to be spread out anyway, I'd rather it be new story content to play through and just have the full roster in the base game.

2K24 DLC is interesting because they haven't really been signing big name talent lately. Other than Dragon Lee, I can't think of any big DLC draws in NXT. I've been saying this the past few years, but I could see them going heavy on nostalgia if they're sticking with wrestler packs as DLC.

What the music is used for is beside the point. For having your music in the game to have value, there needs to be exclusivity to it. Again, I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm just saying if it could be brought back it probably would have by now. I think there's probably a dollars and cents reason they did away with it.

I don't think we're ever getting custom music as long as there's an official soundtrack. If deals are being made for an official soundtrack, having your music in the game has to have value. If players can put whatever music they want in their copy of the game, then being on the soundtrack has no value. I'm not emotional about it one way or the other, but I think the reason custom music went by the wayside is those kinds of deals. I don't see that changing any time soon.

My point is that having 8 person matches has been standard in wrestling games for a long time now. It's crazy to me that even 6 wrestlers in a match took a backseat to this. If we're keeping score, the main event of the very first Dynamite was a trios match.

They can't do trios matches (despite AEW having trios CHAMPIONSHIPS), but they can do a 30 man fake Fortnite? There's some really cool things in Fight Forever, but if this is any indication of their direction I don't think I'll be in for the long haul.

The most complete version of Fight Forever was $80. The most complete version of 2K23 was $120. Definitely not saying Fight Forever is 2/3 the size of 2K23 so I get people thinking it's "not enough for the money" yet, but I also don't think this time next year you'll have spent another $80 on all the new content they've added. This time next year, if you want all of 2K's new content you'll be shelling out another $120.

It's hard to imagine spending more on Fight Forever DLC over the next 3 years or whatever than I would on the deluxe edition of 3 WWE 2K games. If Fight Forever isn't a big enough game for the money for you yet, cool. It's about what I expected in 4ish years. I certainly didn't expect them to have as much developed in 4 years as the WWE game has. They piled that stuff up over a much longer period of time. I'd agree that Fight Forever feels like an incomplete early access version right now, but in the long run I'll be surprised if we don't wind up paying more for less new content on the WWE 2K side.

Honestly, I expected it when they first started talking about improving the stamina mechanic. At least to me, the most significant aspect of stamina in a wrestling game is that it causes wrestlers to slow down (and sometimes stay down) as they get worn out. As it was at launch, all stamina really did was prevent wrestlers from diving, for the most part. I considered it a net negative. I'm hoping the addition of the tired animations (and it's what, like 5 moves?) post-launch is a sign that they're continuing to make progress on that front.

Yeah, my biggest hope is that the newfound competition pushes both dev teams. I think most of the stuff I mention would work within the (mostly good) 2K23 gameplay setup. I just hope seeing those elements in practice shows 2K the value in them. I'm not sure if I take them adding tired moves in via a patch as them wanting to get those mechanics back to what they were, or if they'll consider stamina "fixed" and move on. It could go either way.

I wish I could combine elements of Fight Forever and 2K23. Each game has some more realistic elements to it, but falls short in some ways the other excels. I wish I could have Fight Forever's open ended reversals, multiple catching reversals, chain wrestling, interactive weapons, 1 on 2 moves, and multiple finishers added to 2K's current gameplay. Oh, and get stamina working like it did in 2K15-2K16. I think they're calling Fight Forever "arcade" in the sense that it's pick up and play, but nothing about the gameplay is intentionally unrealistic or over the top.

It looks like a really bloody wrestling match to me. If 2K doesn't/can't do the same, it's a selling point for them.

Getting fatigued moves back is game changing for me. I wonder if it's just the fatigued finishers or we're getting back crawling pins, fatigued rope climbing, etc.

I still want the Mysterio Springboard 'Rana pin. I'd like to see a sitout version of Owens' pop up powerbomb, being that he's been busting that out lately too.

What makes me think that isn't it is that he said it's something different in functionality. I'm taking that to mean the process by which the move is executed. Basically, I think it sounds like it'll be in its own category in CAM. Like giving Race a running sunset flip as the first running leverage pin or something. I'd love to dive on multiple people, though. Especially if they were able to retroactively make the other dives work that way as well. The AI organically diving is one of my favorite gameplay upgrades.

Looking at who is in the DLC pack that releases next month, nothing really jumps out as far as a "unique move". I'm thinking it might be a new way to perform a move rather than a type of move we don't currently have in the game. At first I thought he might have meant the next DLC pack and it would be something like Pretty Deadly's Fireman's Carry/Gutbuster double team done from the carry position or something, but it was streamed yesterday. Unless he misspoke, he's referring to a move for Ivy Nile, Tony D'Angelo, Trick Williams, Harley Race, or Wendy Choo. Interesting...

Do you mean the Tilt-A-Whirl?