King RyderFan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Where did I deny any of that? You saying that Hell in a Cell was almost stopped before, so that makes it okay to stop it now. By making that connection, you are denying all of that. You compared an actual dangerous situation almost stopping a match that involved a beloved underdog, to a monstrous fiend being saved by the ref out of human compassion. If you don't see the very obvious differences there, then...Christ. I'm not denying the legitimate damage done to Mick Foley, while Windham Rotunda's was a lot safer legitimately. I'm saying that in storyline terms, that Mankind and the Fiend went through similar levels of damage, and they didn't want to repeat their mistake of 20 years ago by allowing the match to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God of Lightning Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w79h6KLrjmY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Seriously...you could have done a few things differently here, and people would not be pissed. 1) No red "Virtual Boy" lighting. 2) Instead of the ref stopping the match because Bray was helpless and needed saving, you have the ref stand there and watch Seth deliver the hammer blow (to convey that the ref is afraid of the Fiend as well). Then Bray gets up anyway. He applies the claw. Seth coughs up blood. Ref stops the match because he thinks that Seth is actually being killed. It's no-contest because Bray doesn't break the hold and it looks like Rollins is actually being murdered. Voila...whole mess fixed, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I completely see what WWE was attempting to do. They wanted to establish the Fiend as a main eventer and showcase his new "unstoppable" in ring persona, but somehow have Rollins leave with the belt, cool, but the execution was slightly off. If that's the ending they were going for they should have added one person: Vince McMahon. Summary: I would have had Vince himself literally running out, distraught like we've never seen him before, calling for the bell and asking for the cage to be raised. Seth should have been in disbelief realizing what he's just done, and Vince emotionally shouting "You went too far!" or something. They should have the Fiend on the stretcher. We see him being prepared to be sent off with Vince (literally looking like he's hyperventilating or damn near in tears) close by and concerned as hell. Then, suddenly the Fiend hops up and lays Rollins with a Sister Abigail and the whole ring clears. He then slowly draws his attention to Vince, who's already in bad shape and visibly shaken, then applies the Mandible Claw causing him to bleed out his mouth. Fade to black. End of PPV. On Raw we could have an emotional Steph talk about how Vince is in "critical condition". She then goes on to explain that Vince is too proud to publically admit it himself, but he's still haunted and has sleepless nights because of the events that took place 20 years ago. He's even campaigned for the end of the Hell in a Cell match numerous times due to it's barbaric nature, but has been outvoted as it's popular with the fans. He understands that's the nature of business, but vowed if anything close ever occured again, he would intervene. Blah, blah, blah... That would somewhat make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I'm not denying the legitimate damage done to Mick Foley, while Windham Rotunda's was a lot safer legitimately. I'm saying that in storyline terms, that Mankind and the Fiend went through similar levels of damage, and they didn't want to repeat their mistake of 20 years ago by allowing the match to continue. A) You're not hearing what I'm saying. B) Suggesting that they're booking stoppages into the HiaC format because of what happened decades ago is a stupid opinion. There have been countless HiaC matches since then. It would have come into play long before now if it was an angle that they were actually doing. But it isn't. It's lazy booking. That's it. C) Using "Windham Rotunda" instead of saying Wyatt or "The Fiend" was some cringy shit. Never do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNFNS Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Is it good that I missed this show tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Is it good that I missed this show tonight? Nah...you should take the time to watch it if you want to. There was some decent entertainment, honestly. The end was just handled so poorly that it was one of those "so close, but so far" moments. Some other stuff on the show was alright. Becky vs Sasha was surprisingly the best part, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 This company Didn't watch the show. Won't watch the show. This company has no clue. Atleast they didn't make the mistake of having Charlotte & Becky lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Vercetti Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 https://twitter.com/shirai_io/status/1181010348729667584?s=21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King RyderFan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I'm not denying the legitimate damage done to Mick Foley, while Windham Rotunda's was a lot safer legitimately. I'm saying that in storyline terms, that Mankind and the Fiend went through similar levels of damage, and they didn't want to repeat their mistake of 20 years ago by allowing the match to continue. A) You're not hearing what I'm saying. B) Suggesting that they're booking stoppages into the HiaC format because of what happened decades ago is a stupid opinion. There have been countless HiaC matches since then. It would have come into play long before now if it was an angle that they were actually doing. But it isn't. It's lazy booking. That's it. C) Using "Windham Rotunda" instead of saying Wyatt or "The Fiend" was some cringy shit. Never do it again. A: What are you saying then? B: How many other Hell in a Cell matches have gotten to the point where one participant was outright trying to murder the other? Yes, we have seen people go flying off the cell in the past, but those were normally THE big bump in the match. The Fiend took stuff that was easily 10 times worse than anything since Mankind, it makes sense they use it as a very rare, ultra last resort thing. C: I was making the distinction between legitimate and storyline, hence why I used "Mick Foley" too, though, since you asked nicely, I may do it again in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 A little late cause of TWD but... Wow, they ended up doing a non-finish in a HIAC match afterall! How shitty of them. Of course, they would do such a thing. It was a shit finish, too, since it was so glaringly safe-looking. What they did was pile up a bunch of shit to shield Bray's face from the hammer. How can anyone find that convincing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 https://twitter.com/dpkoch/status/1181037945115033600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 C: I was making the distinction between legitimate and storyline, hence why I used "Mick Foley" too, though, since you asked nicely, I may do it again in the future. Mick Foley has gone by Mick Foley in the wrestling industry. He's used his real name on television. You don't just randomly call Bray Wyatt by his civilian name because you think it makes you sound "educated" or some shit. It sounds absurd. There is no connection there to make. And if you are trying to suggest that WWE was actively trying to work an angle where they were protecting Windham Rotunda, the human man...then you're even more off-base than I *censored*ing thought. If they were ever to do that, then the "Fiend" character would be buried so far under the earth that he would cease to exist altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ! Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I completely see what WWE was attempting to do. They wanted to establish the Fiend as a main eventer and showcase his new "unstoppable" in ring persona, but somehow have Rollins leave with the belt, cool, but the execution was slightly off. If that's the ending they were going for they should have added one person: Vince McMahon. Summary: I would have had Vince himself literally running out, distraught like we've never seen him before, calling for the bell and asking for the cage to be raised. Seth should have been in disbelief realizing what he's just done, and Vince emotionally shouting "You went too far!" or something. They should have the Fiend on the stretcher. We see him being prepared to be sent off with Vince (literally looking like he's hyperventilating or damn near in tears) close by and concerned as hell. Then, suddenly the Fiend hops up and lays Rollins with a Sister Abigail and the whole ring clears. He then slowly draws his attention to Vince, who's already in bad shape and visibly shaken, then applies the Mandible Claw causing him to bleed out his mouth. Fade to black. End of PPV. On Raw we could have an emotional Steph talk about how Vince is in "critical condition". She then goes on to explain that Vince is too proud to publically admit it himself, but he's still haunted and has sleepless nights because of the events that took place 20 years ago. He's even campaigned for the end of the Hell in a Cell match numerous times due to it's barbaric nature, but has been outvoted as it's popular with the fans. He understands that's the nature of business, but vowed if anything close ever occured again, he would intervene. Blah, blah, blah... That would somewhat make sense. that woulda got mega booed bro. humanizing The Fiend at all just seems like bad idea, even worse when you do it in his second match ever. we all understand the story that was trying to be told, but the holes and gaping inconsistencies made it a story not worth telling. they opened pandoras box by introducing the referee stoppage because now im forced to look back at other events in the match where the match should have or could have been stopped. the neck snap is one but even the estimated 16 billion curb stomps done in rapid succession; that can and will kill a man. one could argue the ref should have stopped the match after the 5th time before Seth went for the pin. or how about the most believable attack in the entire match: the straight chairshot to the head. that genuinely shocked me, nothing Seth did after was as crazy as that. Fiend looked pretty dead to me, stop the match there. you want me to suspend my disbelief as i watch Seth stack layers of protection over Brays head and then act as if his attacks are now more damaging? sure, ill do that, think most everybody in that arena was happy to do that...right up until the referee stopped the match. now youre asking me to look at it a whole different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nerd Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Smh they just can't seem to pull the trigger when it needs to be pulled. Fiend should've walked out champion. *censored*ing No Contest. Didn't we just do this shit last year with Roman and Braun when Brock interfered? I fell asleep and just got done watching the main event. Like...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Fiend should've walked out champion. Not even, tbh. He just shouldn't have been put in an unwinnable situation, when his gimmick is that he can't be stopped. Everyone pretty much knew that he wasn't going to win the belt, which made the controversy of a stupid ruling that much more obnoxious. They had the booking power over this situation. There was no reason why it needed to be a title match to begin with. Or why it needed to be a title match in a match type that has no disqualifications. They did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ! Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Is it good that I missed this show tonight? first two matches BANGED, especially Sasha/Becky. the rest wasnt bad but pretty skippable. the ending had people calling this the worst PPV since December to Disremember which is a reach and is mad disrespectful to the first two matches...but yeah the ending was garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekka_No_Ryo Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I don't get the wwe. it's obvious they were not ready for bray to become the champ, nor did they want seth to loose the title just yet, so why on earth would they paint themselves into a corner by booking the match in the first place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nerd Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Fiend should've walked out champion. Not even, tbh. He just shouldn't have been put in an unwinnable situation, when his gimmick is that he can't be stopped. Everyone pretty much knew that he wasn't going to win the belt, which made the controversy of a stupid ruling that much more obnoxious. They had the booking power over this situation. There was no reason why it needed to be a title match to begin with. Or why it needed to be a title match in a match type that has no disqualifications. They did that. Not to be a dick. I ain't reading that. I can't be convinced of anything different. But I should've expected them NOT to put the title on someone with ALL the momentum. But meh. Keep the title on Seth. I mean, that's going so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 They could have done literally anything different with the ME. Have Rollins Curb Stomp Bray's mask off and have "Mr Rogers" Wyatt eat the pin, if you have to. Or just have The Fiend knock Rollins out and leave on his own accord, witihout getting the pin. Could even have the commentators freak out about the match, because it can only end via pinfall or submission, yet the Fiend is just gone Would still be shitty, but atleast better than a freaking DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St★rstruck Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I wanted The Fiend to win the match just like everyone else seemed to - and that's despite the fact that I felt like The Fiend getting a Universal title match this soon after debuting was a bad idea. Also, I'm not too mad about the ending as much as a lot of other people. I get what they were going for, but I felt like the last moments could have been executed a lot better. ?Overall, I don't think the ending ruined The Fiend. I felt like it was actually pretty decent story-telling. This was an easy way for WWE to establish the fact that wrestlers practically have to try to kill Bray just to keep him down and win a match - and even doing that evidently isn't good enough considering Bray got back up again like nothing happened. I'm not even sure if the final ruling came out to be a DQ or a No Contest, but the referee calling the match off was some last-second precaution for the sake of Bray's health... and it gives WWE a good reason to continue the rivalry for at least another month. Either man winning the match by pin fall/submission most likely wouldn't have resulted in a rematch unless there some odd or questionable situation towards the end that would call for it. I think WWE's biggest aim was to have The Fiend look destructible and not win the match without actually getting pinned or tapping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I completely see what WWE was attempting to do. They wanted to establish the Fiend as a main eventer and showcase his new "unstoppable" in ring persona, but somehow have Rollins leave with the belt, cool, but the execution was slightly off. If that's the ending they were going for they should have added one person: Vince McMahon. Summary: I would have had Vince himself literally running out, distraught like we've never seen him before, calling for the bell and asking for the cage to be raised. Seth should have been in disbelief realizing what he's just done, and Vince emotionally shouting "You went too far!" or something. They should have the Fiend on the stretcher. We see him being prepared to be sent off with Vince (literally looking like he's hyperventilating or damn near in tears) close by and concerned as hell. Then, suddenly the Fiend hops up and lays Rollins with a Sister Abigail and the whole ring clears. He then slowly draws his attention to Vince, who's already in bad shape and visibly shaken, then applies the Mandible Claw causing him to bleed out his mouth. Fade to black. End of PPV. On Raw we could have an emotional Steph talk about how Vince is in "critical condition". She then goes on to explain that Vince is too proud to publically admit it himself, but he's still haunted and has sleepless nights because of the events that took place 20 years ago. He's even campaigned for the end of the Hell in a Cell match numerous times due to it's barbaric nature, but has been outvoted as it's popular with the fans. He understands that's the nature of business, but vowed if anything close ever occured again, he would intervene. Blah, blah, blah... That would somewhat make sense. that woulda got mega booed bro. humanizing The Fiend at all just seems like bad idea, even worse when you do it in his second match ever. we all understand the story that was trying to be told, but the holes and gaping inconsistencies made it a story not worth telling. they opened pandoras box by introducing the referee stoppage because now im forced to look back at other events in the match where the match should have or could have been stopped. the neck snap is one but even the estimated 16 billion curb stomps done in rapid succession; that can and will kill a man. one could argue the ref should have stopped the match after the 5th time before Seth went for the pin. or how about the most believable attack in the entire match: the straight chairshot to the head. that genuinely shocked me, nothing Seth did after was as crazy as that. Fiend looked pretty dead to me, stop the match there. you want me to suspend my disbelief as i watch Seth stack layers of protection over Brays head and then act as if his attacks are now more damaging? sure, ill do that, think most everybody in that arena was happy to do that...right up until the referee stopped the match. now youre asking me to look at it a whole different way. A no-contest is doomed to be booed to begin with. My point is, it had to somewhat make sense. Vince stopping the match has less to do with the fiend, and more to do with the his personal connection to the match itself. He's seen how far people are willing to go, and no normal man would have gotten up after what happened to the Fiend. Kayfabe-wise, right now they still see him as human. He hasn't established his mystique yet. Mick lost his match. We don't even know how far Seth would have had do go to win his. That is, if he could have even won the match. Vince literally going out of his way to help someone that should basically be dead, simply to be attacked in an impossible recovery time is completely inhumane. Essentially, it was a hero shooting Jason Voorhees in the head and thinking he's dead. They think Seth went too far, but in reality he seemlingly didn't go far enough. I'm not disputing the flaws in the booking and happenings in the match at all. I just think what they attempted to do could have made more slightly more sense. It was Batman v. Superman booking. They tried to do too much too soon, and could have done it a whole lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nerd Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Seth's stomp is basically weak af now also. This is actually hilarious. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Seth's stomp is basically weak af now also. This is actually hilarious. Lol It's not, actually. It beat Brock Lesnar. The Fiend is just so far above that it seems that way. WWE has told us: The Fiend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seth Rollins & Cain > Brock Lesnar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kofi Kingston > WWE Main Eventers > Rest of the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelnuva Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 They could have done literally anything different with the ME. Have Rollins Curb Stomp Bray's mask off and have "Mr Rogers" Wyatt eat the pin, if you have to. Or just have The Fiend knock Rollins out and leave on his own accord, witihout getting the pin. Could even have the commentators freak out about the match, because it can only end via pinfall or submission, yet the Fiend is just gone Would still be shitty, but atleast better than a freaking DQ I just thought the same ending. Mask falls off and Seth pins Mr. Rogers Bray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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