Saturi Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yeah man that last part of his post is like something out of a homo-erotic horror novel, I assume that is. You weirdos! Just gave a example due to a personal experience. It has nothing to do with erotic, he was a nice colleague that just did that for fun after others and me were talking about physique and strength with our nutritional consultant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just a bit TMI to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Says a "good looking guy" lifted him close to his chest...then acts like he said nothing strange. Anyway...Shelly didn't (and couldn't) move Umaga. I don't care if she was eating the healthiest shit and running laps around the grand canyon. It's an outrageous claim, and it didn't happen. We're not talking about Seth Rollins or Cesaro having freakish strength because they do insane workouts...we're talking about Shelly Martinez...a 115lb model with very little wrestling experience at the time, who barely passed as an athlete at all; Who was known for dressing as a sexy vampire, hanging upside down with her cleavage popping out, and smoking kush with RVD and Sabu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 It might not be strange in whatever circles you run in Saturi, but that was strange for a wrestling forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturi Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Says a "good looking guy" lifted him close to his chest...then acts like he said nothing strange. Anyway...Shelly didn't (and couldn't) move Umaga. I don't care if she was eating the healthiest shit and running laps around the grand canyon. It's an outrageous claim, and it didn't happen. We're not talking about Seth Rollins or Cesaro having freakish strength because they do insane workouts...we're talking about Shelly Martinez...a 115lb model with very little wrestling experience at the time, who barely passed as an athlete at all; Who was known for dressing as a sexy vampire, hanging upside down with her cleavage popping out, and smoking kush with RVD and Sabu. I extra marked that part with a Smiley that Shows that it was rather placed there as a joke ( I said a "UK guy" on the top of that even it didn't matter where he is coming from). Anyway, all I wanted to say was that even someone as slender as her can posses enough strength to push someone even if she doesn't look all pumped up with muscles. Besides it didn't seemed that he put a lot of force on her but rather "tried his luck" and after she shoved him away he went away so she might not even have needed THAT much strength to push him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGPLX. Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 All this talk about the strength of the two ignores the fact that rape/sexual assault isn't entirely about the physical aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy. Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Says a "good looking guy" lifted him close to his chest...then acts like he said nothing strange. Anyway...Shelly didn't (and couldn't) move Umaga. I don't care if she was eating the healthiest shit and running laps around the grand canyon. It's an outrageous claim, and it didn't happen. We're not talking about Seth Rollins or Cesaro having freakish strength because they do insane workouts...we're talking about Shelly Martinez...a 115lb model with very little wrestling experience at the time, who barely passed as an athlete at all; Who was known for dressing as a sexy vampire, hanging upside down with her cleavage popping out, and smoking kush with RVD and Sabu. I extra marked that part with a Smiley that Shows that it was rather placed there as a joke ( I said a "UK guy" on the top of that even it didn't matter where he is coming from). Anyway, all I wanted to say was that even someone as slender as her can posses enough strength to push someone even if she doesn't look all pumped up with muscles. Besides it didn't seemed that he put a lot of force on her but rather "tried his luck" and after she shoved him away he went away so she might not even have needed THAT much strength to push him away. Idk chief. Youre just digging yourself a hole with your explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 All this talk about the strength of the two ignores the fact that rape/sexual assault isn't entirely about the physical aspect. In the end, it kinda is...because the person needs to be overpowered in order to be penetrated or fully taken advantage of. Now...I said it already...if Umaga got on top of her, that would 100% be classified as a sexual assault if she was non-consensual. But, if that's all he managed to do, then I don't see much need in digging up a story about a dead guy to mention it. It might not be acceptable behavior, and of course it warrants a nod of shame or whatever...but it's a strange scenario for Shelly to put herself in. It's not like she's putting herself on the cross and trying to convict Umaga posthumously of rape. So, I don't know what she seeks to gain. Just to tell people that men can come-on too strong and make women uncomfortable? It goes both ways, tbh. We can't pretend like women haven't been seen climbing right on top of guys they want. Difference here, is the size issue...and the fact that she felt uncomfortable by a huge dude being on top of her. I get that it's scary...but the underlying situation is exactly the same as when a woman grabs a dude's crotch, or starts grinding on him. Sexuality is a part of human interaction...it always will be. Sometimes it's misread...and you get a situation like you have here with Umaga. But I don't think his intentions were ever about raping her. So, yeah...the strength aspect is not the focus. But, the fact that Umaga literally had to climb off her willingly (because she would never have the power to force him off like she claimed)...that is certainly part of the focus...for me, anyway. It just says really loud and clear to me that his intentions were never to go any further than she was going to allow him to go. Reverse the rolls for a moment...you (as a guy) are at a party. A chick at the party comes over the to the couch and climbs on top of you without asking. You resist, because you aren't interested for one reason or another. She gets angry, insults you, and storms off. Shit like that happens. Even in the scenario with the woman climbing on a man's lap...you know that he doesn't need to physically throw her off...he resists and she gets off on her own, because she feels rejected. That is what happened here with Umaga. I'm like 99% sure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 All this talk about the strength of the two ignores the fact that rape/sexual assault isn't entirely about the physical aspect. exactly. Umaga apparently was going to rape or assault her until he was pushed off or treated pretty roughly. That in itself is pretty bad even if nothing happened. All this talk about the strength of the two ignores the fact that rape/sexual assault isn't entirely about the physical aspect. In the end, it kinda is...because the person needs to be overpowered in order to be penetrated or fully taken advantage of. Now...I said it already...if Umaga got on top of her, that would 100% be classified as a sexual assault if she was non-consensual. But, if that's all he managed to do, then I don't see much need in digging up a story about a dead guy to mention it. It might not be acceptable behavior, and of course it warrants a nod of shame or whatever...but it's a strange scenario for Shelly to put herself in. It's not like she's putting herself on the cross and trying to convict Umaga posthumously of rape. So, I don't know what she seeks to gain. Just to tell people that men can come-on too strong and make women uncomfortable? It goes both ways, tbh. We can't pretend like women haven't been seen climbing right on top of guys they want. Difference here, is the size issue...and the fact that she felt uncomfortable by a huge dude being on top of her. I get that it's scary...but the underlying situation is exactly the same as when a woman grabs a dude's crotch, or starts grinding on him. Sexuality is a part of human interaction...it always will be. Sometimes it's misread...and you get a situation like you have here with Umaga. But I don't think his intentions were ever about raping her. So, yeah...the strength aspect is not the focus. But, the fact that Umaga literally had to climb off her willingly (because she would never have the power to force him off like she claimed)...that is certainly part of the focus...for me, anyway. It just says really loud and clear to me that his intentions were never to go any further than she was going to allow him to go. Reverse the rolls for a moment...you (as a guy) are at a party. A chick at the party comes over the to the couch and climbs on top of you without asking. You resist, because you aren't interested for one reason or another. She gets angry, insults you, and storms off. Shit like that happens. Even in the scenario with the woman climbing on a man's lap...you know that he doesn't need to physically throw her off...he resists and she gets off on her own, because she feels rejected. That is what happened here with Umaga. I'm like 99% sure of it. Well, if the guy says no and the woman continues grinding on him or fondling him, it's sexual assault. Problem is, guys either don't mind or don't speak up due to fear of being seen as less masculine. But again, calling Shelly a liar just because YOU don't think Umaga went too far or that she didn't have the strength to push him off is an example of why women don't come forward until way later, if at all. And she has nothing to gain by accusing Umaga other than ostracization and bullying. Sexual assault isn't about overpowering someone or penetration, it can be something as simple as smacking someone's ass without their consent or despite them saying to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 But again, calling Shelly a liar just because YOU don't think Umaga went too far or that she didn't have the strength to push him off is an example of why women don't come forward until way later, if at all. She's a wrong if she says she forced him off...because, it's not possible. I don't know how many times we have to go around in circles on this. Logic is logic. She couldn't do that. It's not a physical possibility. I'm not calling her a liar that she was assaulted, or trying to take anything away from the fear that she felt. But she simply didn't do that. And if she thinks she did, then she's wrong. Period. So, again...stop acting like I'm calling her a liar about being assaulted. I never said that. I even said in plain English that Umaga was in the wrong, and he definitely assaulted her by climbing on top of her. No need for the capital "YOU"...like I'm the boogeyman. I just happen to care about how minor details like physics and common sense factor into a story... Whether he got off her on his own will...after being rejected, or whether she threw him through the air like a sack of flour...has no bearing at all on the story. But, the truth is, it was only a minor case of assault either way. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it acceptable. But it stopped where it stopped. You really can't latch onto every minor assault that happens in this world. There's nothing worthwhile to come of it. If her message is that it's unacceptable to climb on top of a woman without her consent...then that's great. It's a good message. But I honestly don't know what else we're meant to make of this. I support her claims and her anti-assault message. I just have no idea what she seeks to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGPLX. Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 But it's not just about this one 'minor' thing, it's about the safety of women. Because at the end of the day, we (as males) can discuss this as much as we want, but for women, it's something they live with so it's not as easy as to just talk about it (and stop talking). It's the constant threat of something like this happening, or worse. And yes there are people that get falsely accused, and Umaga is dead, but your approach to it is all wrong. Also you can't really say it's not worth talking about when you're the person who's posted the most in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Look...I don't condone sexual assault. I said it's a problem. But, again...what exactly do you think is going to come of an incident like this? What do you realistically expect to happen? What is the message? It's good to say "forcing yourself on women is wrong"...but what does that accomplish? People should already know that you can't go around forcing yourself on women. And if they don't, then they have deeper problems than any public service announcement is going to remedy. Both genders need to be more aware of what they are saying and doing. But, it isn't the type of thing that you're going to solve just by saying "don't stick your hand in the cookie jar". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 So what the hell is this thread about again? I went back two pages and all I saw is people arguing about whether a small woman can push off a big guy who is laying on top of her. Is this some sort of physics discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Apparently, it's about Shelly saying that Umaga got on top of her, she pushed him off...he left, and nothing much really happened. But, what do I know...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Problem is, some people can't believe she pushed Umaga off. They think she'd have had to lift him up completely to push him off. And now, we're apparently discussing if sexual assault/attempted rape happened, which should universally be a yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 And now, we're apparently discussing if sexual assault/attempted rape happened, which should universally be a yes. And why is that, when none of us were there? And why has there been absolutely no update to this story since it broke on the 15th? You mean to tell me that absolutely no one had anything to say about this allegedly happening over the course of an entire week? All I heard was the original claim, and then...nothing. Not even a follow-up by Shelly herself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 I'm not talking about this case specifically, but if someone did what Umaga did, which you claim isn't sexual assault because there's no penetration. And I dunno. maybe no one cares enough, maybe they were told not to write about that due to Umaga having passed away, or maybe Shelly was threatened to keep quiet. Have you looked for an update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturi Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 And now, we're apparently discussing if sexual assault/attempted rape happened, which should universally be a yes. And why is that, when none of us were there? And why has there been absolutely no update to this story since it broke on the 15th? You mean to tell me that absolutely no one had anything to say about this allegedly happening over the course of an entire week? All I heard was the original claim, and then...nothing. Not even a follow-up by Shelly herself... Because she obviously was asked about how things were back then and she brought up the Story as a example on how women were treated back then by adding a example of a personal experience to it. Alone the fact that she said that women were asked to "smarten up" and keep details to themselves shows that behaviour like Umagas were tolerated by other male wrestlers and partially the company (if they found out about it and did nothing against it). She didn't went to a Reporter saying "Interview me please! I have to accuse someone for a sexual assault that happen ages ago!". It wasn't a personal gain on her part, it was a bit of a Story to Show how bad things were for the women back then and that it got better in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 I'm not talking about this case specifically, but if someone did what Umaga did, which you claim isn't sexual assault because there's no penetration. And I dunno. maybe no one cares enough, maybe they were told not to write about that due to Umaga having passed away, or maybe Shelly was threatened to keep quiet. Have you looked for an update? I didn't bother reading through all the posts, but please tell me you are not this stupid Gen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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