Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 The fact that you think what Umaga allegedly did didn't cross any boundaries is the issue. Repeating what EJ said, just because it's not actual forced penetration, and is instead 'attempted rape' or 'almost rape but stopped at the last minute', it doesn't mean its OK and the fact that it can be suggested that it is fine is crazy. Again...I never said that. Stop telling me what I said. I said that a game involving men attempting to be the first to "get" with a woman doesn't cross any lines. Simply betting on who could be the first to "get" with a "loose" chick is morally reprehensible, but not objectively "wrong" or illegal. Umaga forcing himself on Shelly would be wrong, yes...and I never said I supported such actions. I simply said that he gave up as soon as she rejected him. He didn't continue and attempt to rape her. That means that he was being aggressive in his advances...which is always super shitty, but he still accepted that she rejected him, and didn't take it to a place that there was no returning from. Also, let's be honest...there is no way that Shelly could have "thrown" Umaga off her. Umaga was a super-heavyweight. If she managed to "throw" him off her, then it's because he got off her. Anyway, I'm not debating this in circles. Said it before...there will be no proof without someone outright confirming what she said. I have no reason to slander either side. I used to listen to RVD's podcast, and Shelly always seemed like a genuinely nice person. I'm definitely not saying she's full of shit. I'm just saying...I wasn't there, Umaga is dead, no one else has said shit, and all we have is Shelly's perception of what happened. If one of those male wrestlers has a sense of moral duty to clear the air, then we could easily verify what happened. Or even if there were other female wrestlers around who saw it happen. Otherwise...there's just nothing to go on. Did we even hear from Melina about this yet? Seems weird that Shelly threw Melina under the bus, and we don't even have comments from her about what happened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muur Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Yeah, dude stopped when she said no and got off her. People in clubs just go and randomly kiss girls and such and that's even further than Umaga took it. How many people in here have had one night stands resulting from clubs? because that's worse than what Umaga did here. If he wanted to rape her there, then he would've done it easy or even tried again. he tried to do what people do in clubs every night, was turned down and was like "fine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 That wasn't a proper full point. Just a small chance. Still, "forced sexual" would count a random drunk kiss. I guarantee people in this thread have kissed a random drunk girl. Means that member was acquainting them to rape Why would it? It'd be forced if the person kept trying to kiss the other person against their wishes, even if they pushed the kisser away. Though it'd likely be sexual assault if you went up to any random girl you didn't talk to and kissed her. Genuinely sounds like a case of miscommunication...which I think is something that people need to consider more carefully in cases where the outcome was less than full on rape. I mean...rape is rape. If they stopped, then they stopped. The only thing we have here that sounds "off"...is the "game" of who could get with Shelly first...and again, based on how she carries herself, that game was probably more of a rib on how flirty she was, and guys just betting that she's easy...not a game of who could rape her, or something like that. It sounds 100% like a case of "there's Shelly, she's always being promiscuous around groups of dudes...I bet I could get with her". Umaga fired his shot...(a cocaine-fueled shot that pushed the issue too hard). She rejected him. End of. No rape to speak of. Now you're saying what I said lmao. A game is basically the same thing What you said was absurd. You said he was pranking her...suggesting that she was a part of it, and everyone had a good laugh. A "game" among male friends to see who could sleep with a woman is not a "prank" on the woman. But it's also nowhere near "rape"...it's a shitty thing to do, but it still has boundaries. Boundaries that Umaga seemingly adhered to, when he stopped his advances after she pushed him off. Really, it sounds like she's just angry that everyone saw her as being promiscuous enough for such a game to ever take place. They thought she was easy, so they all tried to get with her. That isn't rape. It's just not. It might be demeaning to her, but it doesn't really cross any lines. Character assassination. That's one of the arguments defendants' lawyers use: "she has sex at least once a week, so how did he rape her? She probably didn't mind it as she's very sexually active!" You're, at least to some degree, trying to justify them "trying to get with her" by saying she comes off as promiscuous and flirty when she shouldn't behave like that. Still putting some onus on her. The fact that you think what Umaga allegedly did didn't cross any boundaries is the issue. Repeating what EJ said, just because it's not actual forced penetration, and is instead 'attempted rape' or 'almost rape but stopped at the last minute', it doesn't mean its OK and the fact that it can be suggested that it is fine is crazy. Again...I never said that. Stop telling me what I said. I said that a game involving men attempting to be the first to "get" with a woman doesn't cross any lines. Simply betting on who could be the first to "get" with a "loose" chick is morally reprehensible, but not objectively "wrong" or illegal. Umaga forcing himself on Shelly would be wrong, yes...and I never said I supported such actions. I simply said that he gave up as soon as she rejected him. He didn't continue and attempt to rape her. That means that he was being aggressive in his advances...which is always super shitty, but he still accepted that she rejected him, and didn't take it to a place that there was no returning from. Also, let's be honest...there is no way that Shelly could have "thrown" Umaga off her. Umaga was a super-heavyweight. If she managed to "throw" him off her, then it's because he got off her. Anyway, I'm not debating this in circles. Said it before...there will be no proof without someone outright confirming what she said. I have no reason to slander either side. I used to listen to RVD's podcast, and Shelly always seemed like a genuinely nice person. I'm definitely not saying she's full of shit. I'm just saying...I wasn't there, Umaga is dead, no one else has said shit, and all we have is Shelly's perception of what happened. If one of those male wrestlers has a sense of moral duty to clear the air, then we could easily verify what happened. Or even if there were other female wrestlers around who saw it happen. Otherwise...there's just nothing to go on. Did we even hear from Melina about this yet? Seems weird that Shelly threw Melina under the bus, and we don't even have comments from her about what happened... If Umaga wasn't balanced properly, then she could have thrown him off. Plus, doesn't she work out? she'd have some sort of strength to do that. But it took her pushing him off for him to back off, he probably thought it wasn't worth trying to go after her when she'd fight back however way she could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Umaga was a savage from the isle of Samoa right? Why is anyone surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Yeah, dude stopped when she said no and got off her. People in clubs just go and randomly kiss girls and such and that's even further than Umaga took it. How many people in here have had one night stands resulting from clubs? because that's worse than what Umaga did here. If he wanted to rape her there, then he would've done it easy or even tried again. he tried to do what people do in clubs every night, was turned down and was like "fine" Holy shit dude you have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 If Umaga wasn't balanced properly, then she could have thrown him off. Plus, doesn't she work out? she'd have some sort of strength to do that. Seriously? Umaga weighed 350lbs. Shelly weighs 115. Let's not go and make laughable claims about her actually "throwing" him off. She didn't throw shit off...she resisted, and he got off her. That's literally the only thing that could have happened. He went too far in getting on top of her to begin with...but if he intended on it, he could have easily stayed exactly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. You realize, I read this myself...when I read the OP. It doesn't change that it's not physically possible for a 115lb Shelly to force a 350lb Umaga off her (if he was hell bent on staying there). I know what she thinks happened...but "God gave me the strength to force a sex-crazed super-heavyweight Samoan off of me" is simply not real life... I weigh 200lbs, and I'm pretty physically fit. If Umaga climbed on top of me, and he didn't want to willingly leave, I would 100% be getting raped. So...yeah, I'm going with common sense, and saying that she probably clawed his face, or kneed him in the junk or something, but definitely didn't "throw him off"...that just isn't a realistic claim. So, if all she claims to have done was "push" him off her, then it sounds like he absolutely backed off on his own, and if he left immediately after that, then it sounds like he said "shit, I shouldn't be doing this" and he left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King RyderFan Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. If Shelly could push off someone who is more than three times her own body weight then my god she should be up for the running of World's strongest woman. Plus, if Umaga was backing off at the same time Shelly was pushing it could easily give the impression of her being stronger than she actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. If Shelly could push off someone who is more than three times her own body weight then my god she should be up for the running of World's strongest woman. Plus, if Umaga was backing off at the same time Shelly was pushing it could easily give the impression of her being stronger than she actually is. Or he could have shifted his weight or unbalanced himself for a moment, or she could have unbalanced him which let her push Umaga off. Feels like you guys are trying your best to defend Umaga or at least, discredit Shelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Essentially, you had a bet going that Shelly was easy, and it would be easy to get with her...and when it turned out that she wasn't actually easy to get with, Umaga got pissed and left. That's my understanding of the story from start to finish. Shelly is a victim if that's how it went down...but Umaga also wouldn't belong in a jail cell or anything if he was still alive. He didn't drug her, he didn't actually end up doing much of anything. He acted aggressively and he was 100% off base in doing that...he isn't winning any "gentleman of the year" awards...but there's not much else to this story. He was an ass, he got rejected, and that's how the story ends. It isn't like the other guys stood outside the door and made sure Shelly couldn't leave. Shelly felt abused because Umaga is a big dude and she had no control of the situation. I get that...but it doesn't sound like much more than that. Also, where were her friends? She was just chilling with a bunch of dudes? Like I said before...she was there with Melina? Why haven't we heard from Melina? What other female talents were there? Where did they all go? They left her alone too? I have too many questions that need answering before I just buy in 100% to what she's saying. Reasonable questions...not outlandish or accusatory by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King RyderFan Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. If Shelly could push off someone who is more than three times her own body weight then my god she should be up for the running of World's strongest woman. Plus, if Umaga was backing off at the same time Shelly was pushing it could easily give the impression of her being stronger than she actually is. Or he could have shifted his weight or unbalanced himself for a moment, or she could have unbalanced him which let her push Umaga off. Feels like you guys are trying your best to defend Umaga or at least, discredit Shelly. Just wondering, when was the last time you did maths or physics? Umaga was over three times Shelly's body weight. It would take some extremely severe unbalancing for Shelly to throw Umaga off if he did not want to get off. It feels like you are trying your best to defend Shelly's exaggerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 ^ Besides, whether she threw him off is not even relevant to the sequence of events. I'm certainly not trying to discredit her story by harping on whether she actually did force him off. It just seems like a strange elaboration to make in the first place...and it definitely suggests that maybe she wasn't entirely aware of the events as she thinks she was (if she believes she was capable of that, which she most assuredly was not). All I'm saying is...it hints at a bigger picture. I believe that she thinks it happened a certain way. I'm not calling her a liar. But I also see that there's a gray area where some things definitely don't add up. Getting Umaga off her is one of those things...it just suggests that he wasn't "hooked in" as deep as she seems to be claiming. If you go watch a little bit of MMA, you can really see how difficult it is to get out from underneath a massive man. And those guys are nowhere near 350lbs. The cutoff for UFC is 265lbs...and it's hard for other 265lb men to escape from under those guys. You want me to consider for a fraction of a second that a 115 Shelly could do that? It's not even in the realm of feasibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. If Shelly could push off someone who is more than three times her own body weight then my god she should be up for the running of World's strongest woman. Plus, if Umaga was backing off at the same time Shelly was pushing it could easily give the impression of her being stronger than she actually is. Or he could have shifted his weight or unbalanced himself for a moment, or she could have unbalanced him which let her push Umaga off. Feels like you guys are trying your best to defend Umaga or at least, discredit Shelly. Just wondering, when was the last time you did maths or physics? Umaga was over three times Shelly's body weight. It would take some extremely severe unbalancing for Shelly to throw Umaga off if he did not want to get off. It feels like you are trying your best to defend Shelly's exaggerations. If she works out and lifts, then it is quite possible for her to do it. If she said she pushed off Umaga's full weight easily, then I'd understand why it's hard to believe, but she never said that. no reason to believe she's lying or exaggerating right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 If she works out and lifts, then it is quite possible for her to do it. You're right, man...just look at the size of those guns... Not those ones...the other ones. Seriously though...you absolutely have no reasonable comprehension of how small 115lbs is. It's not possible. Period. There is no "she works out and is athletic" to be discussed here. 115lbs is tiny. Her arms are tiny. She is a tiny woman. Even in her prime in WWE, she did not have a lot of muscle mass. She didn't force Umaga off her. It just didn't happen. I don't know why you're committed to defending this one claim that she power-lifted Umaga off her...just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King RyderFan Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 So, you're gonna go against what she said? In any case, doesn't change the possibility that she could have thrown him off. Only way that's difficult to believe is if his full weight was on her, and he was stable. It's not unheard for someone to get the strength to push off something even heavier than them.... If she resisted, she'd have said that rather than "God gave me strength to push him off." And people wonder why women don't come forward. And it was one of those things where God gave me strength and I pushed him off of me and he fell to the floor and he got pissed and like left the room. If Shelly could push off someone who is more than three times her own body weight then my god she should be up for the running of World's strongest woman. Plus, if Umaga was backing off at the same time Shelly was pushing it could easily give the impression of her being stronger than she actually is. Or he could have shifted his weight or unbalanced himself for a moment, or she could have unbalanced him which let her push Umaga off. Feels like you guys are trying your best to defend Umaga or at least, discredit Shelly. Just wondering, when was the last time you did maths or physics? Umaga was over three times Shelly's body weight. It would take some extremely severe unbalancing for Shelly to throw Umaga off if he did not want to get off. It feels like you are trying your best to defend Shelly's exaggerations. If she works out and lifts, then it is quite possible for her to do it. If she said she pushed off Umaga's full weight easily, then I'd understand why it's hard to believe, but she never said that. no reason to believe she's lying or exaggerating right now. So you are telling me, that a 115 pound woman can legitimately overpower a man who is over three times hee weight? I refer you to the question that opened my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 If she works out and lifts, then it is quite possible for her to do it. You're right, man...just look at the size of those guns... Not those ones...the other ones. Seriously though...you absolutely have no reasonable comprehension of how small 115lbs is. It's not possible. Period. There is no "she works out and is athletic" to be discussed here. 115lbs is tiny. Her arms are tiny. She is a tiny woman. Even in her prime in WWE, she did not have a lot of muscle mass. She didn't force Umaga off her. It just didn't happen. I don't know why you're committed to defending this one claim that she power-lifted Umaga off her...just move on. If she said she pushed off Umaga's full weight easily, then I'd understand why it's hard to believe You're the one claiming I said that. I may have said it unaware, but I never once thought she'd be able to lift Umaga, at all. You can push someone without lifting them, and I interpreted it as her pushing Umaga to the side or one side of his body off her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy. Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I had no idea Umaga died due to coke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I had no idea Umaga died due to coke. Heart attack at 36, with blood coming out his nose. You do the math. Hahaha. I interpreted it as her pushing Umaga to the side or one side of his body off her. You clearly have no understanding of how much control a person has when they are on top of you. Like I said...you see that shit in UFC with guys who are perfectly capable of lifting large amounts. If those guys struggle to move that type of weight, then how would Shelly be able to? Stop being irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturi Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I had no idea Umaga died due to coke. Heart attack at 36, with blood coming out his nose. You do the math. Hahaha. I interpreted it as her pushing Umaga to the side or one side of his body off her. You clearly have no understanding of how much control a person has when they are on top of you. Like I said...you see that shit in UFC with guys who are perfectly capable of lifting large amounts. If those guys struggle to move that type of weight, then how would Shelly be able to? Stop being irrational. Just to put this out there though, you don't need muscle mass and a look like a Bodybuilder to be strong. I know persons that look like if they could roll over you like a truck but when it comes down to things, they don't have much power and neither they have condition. They are only pumped up while other people have barely any visible muscle but are crazy strong and have also a huge conditioning. Just as example, one of our Cooks in the Hospitals kitchen (good looking uk guy if I might add... ), came once to the Office and lifted me together with my chair up to his chest and held me there for like 2 minutes as if I don't weight nothing. I was totally shocked because if you look at him he is a slender guy with barely any muscle but he is crazy strong. His fingers alone are as if you would be using a tool to rip out parts of flesh from your Body strong. That's one of the reasons I never judge a book by it's cover. She might indeed be strong enough to push him away, even if one can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy. Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 ...okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Well theres an easy candidate for worst post of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muur Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Just makes me wonder if Saturi is a gay guy or a girl prob the gay guy part but still yeah, weird post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey D. Jiggy Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Meh, I blocked his posts anyway, so I'm good. Yes, I'm flexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yeah man that last part of his post is like something out of a homo-erotic horror novel, I assume that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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