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#81 Bdon

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 05:48 PM

Most Guns are stolen from cars, These are guns from conceal carry owners who are not allowed to bring said gun into a zone or establishment. Even though handgun production and theft have RISEN! States have rolled back restrictions against leaving firearms in vehicles. In other words, owners who are carrying firearms for self-protection are arming the very people they fear.

 

The Nation is not telling you "You can't have guns" they are telling you, "You can't have weapons on par with armies. And the Guns you have, Keep em at home."  Simple as that.

 

 

So you're saying that law abiding citizens are following the bullshit laws and the criminals aren't? hmm weird. So on top of that they get penalized the most right? That's ok?

 

And even though you're generalizing there are many that are saying that we shouldn't have any guns. So for someone to say that isn't the case is bullshit. Just because a group of people aren't saying no to all guns, doesn't mean there aren't others saying the opposite. And picking and choosing which ones we can and can't have because a bunch of uneducated people on the left or wherever says so is probably the most asinine thing we can do.

 

Also the second amendment is worded and meant in a way we were supposed to have the same weapons as a standard infantry. So we can defend ourselves against our government. That's the way it was intended. But some smart authoritarians came in and spread fear among the stupid people over the centuries with promises of safety and security and here we are. Simple as that.

 

Queue the typical "you can't fight fighter jets and missiles" arguments.


Edited by Bdon, 10 April 2019 - 05:48 PM.


#82 Warbot

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 06:50 PM

Actually it's when people don't act as responsible gun owners are they stolen, They don't lock them in the trunk or glove compartment as many are required to do.  Don't get me wrong, I am not putting total blame on the gun owner, Just saying the responsibility of gun ownership should come with stiffer punishments when negligent in public places. The number of Non compliance in storage  and not informing of theft is high and should be fined HEAVILY!  Permits lower in cost, FINES HEAVIER, if not loss of ability to own gun to set amount of years or Keep them inside. I don't think that's to much to ask.

 

As for your preemptive strike about Fighter jets and Missiles, The government can seize land, Audit unjustly, Hold you indefinitely without lawyer [In cases of supposed terrorism] , Wire tap, Hold secret court, send people back to jail after sentencing, Remove children from homes, Unlock your phone and most without due process and even with it's in their favor...If you aren't fighting now, You either don't really care, Or they are doing it to a people you don't care about. You say "We need these to fight" I say "You missed your shot already but it's nice they cater to you to keep you subdued" .Where were you all at ruby ridge and Waco? How about all the times cops unjustly shot black men with concealed? Because it happens a lot and NRA is oddly silent? Oh they will share stories of Thugs and super predators [*Censored* Hillary for that one btw] but the cops using deadly force on legal gun owners of color....Silence. because it's part of the plan.

 

This has so much more to do with race than Freedom, This has so much to do with Fear then freedom. This is all about making people feel safe and *Censored* the damage it brings. because the back splash doesn't effect them the way it does others and gives them a voter base that feels they are being looked after. Non violent felons cannot vote or own a gun in most areas in this nation, But Domestic dispute offenders and stalkers will be given the benefit of the doubt what the *Censored* is that?.

 

People will die for freedom, which sounds noble, but in this way it sounds empty,hollow and with a ton more small print then the laws people want passed.

 

 



#83 TheShape_1978

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:46 PM

Actually it's when people don't act as responsible gun owners are they stolen, They don't lock them in the trunk or glove compartment as many are required to do.  Don't get me wrong, I am not putting total blame on the gun owner, Just saying the responsibility of gun ownership should come with stiffer punishments when negligent in public places. The number of Non compliance in storage  and not informing of theft is high and should be fined HEAVILY!  Permits lower in cost, FINES HEAVIER, if not loss of ability to own gun to set amount of years or Keep them inside. I don't think that's to much to ask.

 

As for your preemptive strike about Fighter jets and Missiles, The government can seize land, Audit unjustly, Hold you indefinitely without lawyer [In cases of supposed terrorism] , Wire tap, Hold secret court, send people back to jail after sentencing, Remove children from homes, Unlock your phone and most without due process and even with it's in their favor...If you aren't fighting now, You either don't really care, Or they are doing it to a people you don't care about. You say "We need these to fight" I say "You missed your shot already but it's nice they cater to you to keep you subdued" .Where were you all at ruby ridge and Waco? How about all the times cops unjustly shot black men with concealed? Because it happens a lot and NRA is oddly silent? Oh they will share stories of Thugs and super predators [*Censored* Hillary for that one btw] but the cops using deadly force on legal gun owners of color....Silence. because it's part of the plan.

 

This has so much more to do with race than Freedom, This has so much to do with Fear then freedom. This is all about making people feel safe and *Censored* the damage it brings. because the back splash doesn't effect them the way it does others and gives them a voter base that feels they are being looked after. Non violent felons cannot vote or own a gun in most areas in this nation, But Domestic dispute offenders and stalkers will be given the benefit of the doubt what the *Censored* is that?.

 

People will die for freedom, which sounds noble, but in this way it sounds empty,hollow and with a ton more small print then the laws people want passed.

 

 

 

First Paragraph:

 

You know how idiotic it is to punish me as a gun owner for someone else breaking into my car and stealing my gun?  That's like holding me accountable if someone steals my car and runs someone over.

 

Second Paragraph:

 

All of the scenarios you describe of the government bypassing the fourth amendment is in response to foreign intelligence gathering and it is very hard to prove unless you are the FBI going after Donald Trump.  But that's another story.  What does carrying a gun have to do with the NRA?  I know plenty of people that aren't NRA that carry guns.  I don't know what you are talking about with cops using guns on people of color.  If you are a smart person, you wait until the facts come out and then place the blame where blame should go.  I have condemned plenty of killings of POC by police.

 

Third Paragraph:

 

Now you are going on a diatribe that really doesn't make any sense.  The fact is is that as more and more guns are purchased, gun violence has been consistently going down.  The Center for Disease Control did a study under the Obama Administration and guns deter anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000 violent crimes a year.

 

Final Sentence:

 

What people and what laws are you talking about?  You do know the Republicans wanted to pass a that an alien illegally in the country is attempting to buy a firearm, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents would be notified so that the attempted purchaser could be apprehended and prosecuted and/or removed.  It's already against the law for illegal aliens to purchase or possess firearms  The Dems voted it down.  I want to know one reasonable legislation that the Dems want to pass that doesn't include restricting gun rights for innocent civilians.


Edited by TheShape_1978, 10 April 2019 - 09:10 PM.


#84 Warbot

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:18 PM

Punishment for not properly storing your gun in a manner that both law makers and Gun advocates agree with, Is not stupid, It's punishment for not keeping your end of the bargain for being responsible . If you can't be responsible with your weapon, Maybe you shouldn't have it.

 

The NRA are the backing lobbying force that have back pedaled gun laws that have as you said LOWERED gun violence. And the NRA have everything to do with it as the backing force you'd think they'd be the loudest in condemning cops killing citizens [even of color] who are conceal carry being killed because cops are jittery of blacks with guns. It's the *censored*ing back bone of their own argument , But they just are silent in these cases.

 

let's get down to it, this is what's the trouble, we can't find a compromise in availability , is the ability for citizens to gather ammo and guns that have the ability to commit mass shootings in the matter of moments a price you're willing to pay to feel safe in your home? . High power firing weapons that kill multiple peoples in the matter of moments. that's the debate. thats the issue here.

 

And as for politics, the NRA have across the board backed republican candidates in hopes  of dismantling the brady bill which has since it's formation stopped more then 1.2 firearm purchases. More guns are sold, Less gun violence. It's almost as if those gun laws WERE WORKING! well they are loosening , and when the numbers go up, We can blame everything else but the issue at hand.  We did so much good work, It's a shame we have to go back because people feel uncomfy with being burdened with being responsible and not having every weapon at finger tip.

 

 



#85 TheShape_1978

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:34 PM

Punishment for not properly storing your gun in a manner that both law makers and Gun advocates agree with, Is not stupid, It's punishment for not keeping your end of the bargain for being responsible . If you can't be responsible with your weapon, Maybe you shouldn't have it.

 

The NRA are the backing lobbying force that have back pedaled gun laws that have as you said LOWERED gun violence. And the NRA have everything to do with it as the backing force you'd think they'd be the loudest in condemning cops killing citizens [even of color] who are conceal carry being killed because cops are jittery of blacks with guns. It's the *censored*ing back bone of their own argument , But they just are silent in these cases.

 

let's get down to it, this is what's the trouble, we can't find a compromise in availability , is the ability for citizens to gather ammo and guns that have the ability to commit mass shootings in the matter of moments a price you're willing to pay to feel safe in your home? . High power firing weapons that kill multiple peoples in the matter of moments. that's the debate. thats the issue here.

 

And as for politics, the NRA have across the board backed republican candidates in hopes  of dismantling the brady bill which has since it's formation stopped more then 1.2 firearm purchases. More guns are sold, Less gun violence. It's almost as if those gun laws WERE WORKING! well they are loosening , and when the numbers go up, We can blame everything else but the issue at hand.  We did so much good work, It's a shame we have to go back because people feel uncomfy with being burdened with being responsible and not having every weapon at finger tip.

 

 

 

First Paragraph:

 

It is stupid.  It would be just like someone breaking in my home, stealing a firearm out of my house and killing someone with it.  That is idiotic.  There's no way around it.

 

Second Paragraph:

 

If the NRA (which is ran from donations, unlike some other lobbying organizations) is back pedaling laws and gun violence is going down while those laws are being back pedaled, that would be an argument that less gun laws are the solution.

 

Third Paragraph:

 

An AR-15 is really no different than the .22 I use to hunt squirrels.  No offense, but you know nothing of firearms.

 

Fourth Paragraph:

 

Back to the NRA.  See second paragraph response.



#86 M3J

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:30 PM

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 



#87 TheShape_1978

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:39 PM

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?



#88 King RyderFan

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:43 PM


If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 
Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?
Just leave it out of sight and keep it in a locked box - don't be a dollop and leave it in plain view for everyone and the grabdmothers to see. Obviously you can't 100% secure it but you can at least make an effort.

#89 TheShape_1978

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:47 PM

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 
Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?
Just leave it out of sight and keep it in a locked box - don't be a dollop and leave it in plain view for everyone and the grabdmothers to see. Obviously you can't 100% secure it but you can at least make an effort.

 

 

And there's the rub.  And yet they want me to be punished if someone breaks in my car illegally and illegally obtains my firearm.



#90 King RyderFan

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:50 PM


 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 
Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?
Just leave it out of sight and keep it in a locked box - don't be a dollop and leave it in plain view for everyone and the grabdmothers to see. Obviously you can't 100% secure it but you can at least make an effort.
 
 
And there's the rub.  And yet they want me to be punished if someone breaks in my car illegally and illegally obtains my firearm.

As I said, if you make an effort to secure and hide it, you shouldn't be punished. But if you leave it on the seat of your car, out in the open without a care in the world then yes you should be punished.

#91 TheShape_1978

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:52 PM

 

 

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 
Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?
Just leave it out of sight and keep it in a locked box - don't be a dollop and leave it in plain view for everyone and the grabdmothers to see. Obviously you can't 100% secure it but you can at least make an effort.
 
 
And there's the rub.  And yet they want me to be punished if someone breaks in my car illegally and illegally obtains my firearm.

As I said, if you make an effort to secure and hide it, you shouldn't be punished. But if you leave it on the seat of your car, out in the open without a care in the world then yes you should be punished.

 

Now take that stance to proving it in a court of law.



#92 Bdon

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:49 AM

 

 

 

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 
Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?
Just leave it out of sight and keep it in a locked box - don't be a dollop and leave it in plain view for everyone and the grabdmothers to see. Obviously you can't 100% secure it but you can at least make an effort.
 
 
And there's the rub.  And yet they want me to be punished if someone breaks in my car illegally and illegally obtains my firearm.

As I said, if you make an effort to secure and hide it, you shouldn't be punished. But if you leave it on the seat of your car, out in the open without a care in the world then yes you should be punished.

 

Now take that stance to proving it in a court of law.

 

That's the kicker. Won't happen. And they would be setting a precedent. Too intrusive and risky. All it will take is someone on a witch hunt and you'll be screwed. Besides asking good people to be even better is saying that there good isn't good enough. Yet again good people will be paying for the bad peoples decision. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me. 



#93 M3J

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:43 AM

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?

 

Well, if you put it in a locked box and/or put it in the glove compartment and lock it, then that should make it difficult for anyone to get to the gun. And honestly, if a gun owner actually does that, then he shouldn't be punished. Hell, keep the bullets and gun apart from each other. 



#94 TheShape_1978

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 05:16 AM

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?

 

Well, if you put it in a locked box and/or put it in the glove compartment and lock it, then that should make it difficult for anyone to get to the gun. And honestly, if a gun owner actually does that, then he shouldn't be punished. Hell, keep the bullets and gun apart from each other. 

 

First point:  How are you going to prove that if the gun is stolen? 

 

Second Point: That's brilliant!  So if I guy comes up and wants to rob me in my car, I'll be sure to ask him to hold on a sec and get my gun loaded.


Edited by TheShape_1978, 11 April 2019 - 05:17 AM.


#95 LEGION

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:32 AM

In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?



#96 TheShape_1978

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:17 AM

In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?

 

The one where the CDC did a study that said that guns deter violent crime from 500,000 to 3,000,000 incidents a year.



#97 Bdon

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:47 AM


In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?

 
The one where the CDC did a study that said that guns deter violent crime from 500,000 to 3,000,000 incidents a year.

Lol, I like this guy. And the name and avatar too. 👍

#98 M3J

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:22 PM

 

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?

 

Well, if you put it in a locked box and/or put it in the glove compartment and lock it, then that should make it difficult for anyone to get to the gun. And honestly, if a gun owner actually does that, then he shouldn't be punished. Hell, keep the bullets and gun apart from each other. 

 

First point:  How are you going to prove that if the gun is stolen? 

 

Second Point: That's brilliant!  So if I guy comes up and wants to rob me in my car, I'll be sure to ask him to hold on a sec and get my gun loaded.

 

Permit and the fact that you don't have your gun on you? 

 

Because you can't somehow drive away, right? And what's the difference between loading your gun and trying to get your gun out? You can still get attacked either way or hell, you could pretend your gun's loaded. 

 

 

In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?

 

The one where the CDC did a study that said that guns deter violent crime from 500,000 to 3,000,000 incidents a year.

 

Source? A quick Googling of "do guns deter violent crime" show your claim is false. 

 

https://www.washingt...m=.762a87463968

https://www.scientif...evidence-shows/

https://www.rand.org...lent-crime.html

https://www.theatlan...iolence/531297/

https://www.washingt...m=.689d70dffa55



#99 TheShape_1978

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:22 AM

 

 

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?

 

Well, if you put it in a locked box and/or put it in the glove compartment and lock it, then that should make it difficult for anyone to get to the gun. And honestly, if a gun owner actually does that, then he shouldn't be punished. Hell, keep the bullets and gun apart from each other. 

 

First point:  How are you going to prove that if the gun is stolen? 

 

Second Point: That's brilliant!  So if I guy comes up and wants to rob me in my car, I'll be sure to ask him to hold on a sec and get my gun loaded.

 

Permit and the fact that you don't have your gun on you? 

 

Because you can't somehow drive away, right? And what's the difference between loading your gun and trying to get your gun out? You can still get attacked either way or hell, you could pretend your gun's loaded. 

 

 

In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?

 

The one where the CDC did a study that said that guns deter violent crime from 500,000 to 3,000,000 incidents a year.

 

Source? A quick Googling of "do guns deter violent crime" show your claim is false. 

 

https://www.washingt...m=.762a87463968

https://www.scientif...evidence-shows/

https://www.rand.org...lent-crime.html

https://www.theatlan...iolence/531297/

https://www.washingt...m=.689d70dffa55

 

 

First post:  Drive away while someone could fire at me with a gun?  You kidding me?

 

Second Post:  https://www.forbes.c...s/#4e11f538299a

 

It is not false.



#100 KingKhan18

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:42 PM

 

 

 

 

 

If you can't be responsible with your guns, from locking it up properly at home so your kids can't access it to locking it safely in your car, then you likely deserve to be punished. 

 

Agreed with the first part.  However, how do you lock a gun safely in your car so someone breaking in your car can't get to it?

 

Well, if you put it in a locked box and/or put it in the glove compartment and lock it, then that should make it difficult for anyone to get to the gun. And honestly, if a gun owner actually does that, then he shouldn't be punished. Hell, keep the bullets and gun apart from each other. 

 

First point:  How are you going to prove that if the gun is stolen? 

 

Second Point: That's brilliant!  So if I guy comes up and wants to rob me in my car, I'll be sure to ask him to hold on a sec and get my gun loaded.

 

Permit and the fact that you don't have your gun on you? 

 

Because you can't somehow drive away, right? And what's the difference between loading your gun and trying to get your gun out? You can still get attacked either way or hell, you could pretend your gun's loaded. 

 

 

In what kind of shithole do you live that this is even remotely a thought process you have?

 

The one where the CDC did a study that said that guns deter violent crime from 500,000 to 3,000,000 incidents a year.

 

Source? A quick Googling of "do guns deter violent crime" show your claim is false. 

 

https://www.washingt...m=.762a87463968

https://www.scientif...evidence-shows/

https://www.rand.org...lent-crime.html

https://www.theatlan...iolence/531297/

https://www.washingt...m=.689d70dffa55

 

 

First post:  Drive away while someone could fire at me with a gun?  You kidding me?

 

 

He'd have to be Deadshot or some shit, to have the accuracy to shoot somebody inside of a car that's driving away from him at presumably very high speeds. Unless you are very slowly driving away from the scene ( at like 10 mph maybe ) the guy wouldn't have a *censored*ing chance at hitting you.