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#181 King RyderFan

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 01:23 PM

you are *censored*ing disgusting.

you saying it's "simples" proves you are uneducated on the matter. stop *censored*ing disscrediting rape victims due to false rape accusations.


How am I discrediting rape victims? I like the way you said nothing about M3J's "lulz" which is just as bad. I am not discrediting rape victims. We shouldn't assume the accuser is lying, BUT we also shouldn't assume the accused is guilty either.

#182 AONO.

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 02:06 PM

 

you are *censored*ing disgusting.

you saying it's "simples" proves you are uneducated on the matter. stop *censored*ing disscrediting rape victims due to false rape accusations.


How am I discrediting rape victims? I like the way you said nothing about M3J's "lulz" which is just as bad. I am not discrediting rape victims. We shouldn't assume the accuser is lying, BUT we also shouldn't assume the accused is guilty either.

 

 

Aha, so that's not a "whataboutism"? Pardon me, for not openly condemning a "lulz" comment. I reacted to "Why am I not surprised you're here with your whaboutisms involving real rape? You want more actual rape victims to be believed? Punish those who abuse the system and lie about it. Simples. As it stands right now there is no reason not to lie."

 

It was completely fine when you posted the link and said, "that's a step in the right direction". It is, It's great. But your response to M3J was way off. It is discrediting because you are ignoring the fact on how much of a problem women being raped still is. Women not being believed is not only because "there are people who falsely claim of being raped". It's a problem that's rooted deep in the culture. It would be great if that was the sole reason, but it is't. Far from it. 

 

For like the fiftieth time, you can deal with the false rape accusations without putting down the rape victims. The way you talk about it, is making it it's one or the other. You may not think that that it's what you are doing, but that's what your language sounds like.

 

I mean, why? If you are going to focus on the false rape accusations, focus on that. It's a great thing you're doing. M3J didn't say that wasn't a problem at all, and you made it seem like he did. And you responded by dissrespecting rape victims. Why? Because in this case you made it seem like it's not important. I'm sure you would now say the same for him... but it's not. Because while yes, people who are falsely accused can have their lives changed by it, but is it in the same manner as being raped? Do you understand that difference? 

And you also used the hyperboles of of 5000 people being beaten to that because they are being false accused? And while it's obviously a passionate topic for you, it's just a dumb thing to say if you want to be taken serious. Or 5000 people jailed, or being social outcasts. How do you know that 7000 of that 11000 people of those falsely accused didn't turn out to not been scarred for the rest of their lives? I'm saying hypothetically, because I'm sure that has scars of it's own, but you used hypothetical numbers also.

The main things is, you can't equate being raped, to being falsely accused of rape. You need to understand that fact. And the way you are talking about it, doesn't seem like you do. Maybe you think you do, but you obviously don't fully understand it. 


Edited by AONO., 01 December 2019 - 02:08 PM.


#183 King RyderFan

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:44 PM

Anon: I had a long post ready to counter you, but me being the king of stupidity, I went and deleted it and I really can't be arsed to retype it. I will say I do 110% agree with you on some things though, such as that you can deal with real rape victims without making it an "us or them" situation, I have never denied that, and never will. It's just that the only real points I have seen fighting against punishing false rapes are trying to spin it back to real rapes. It's not that I mean to discredit real rape victims, if I was I wouldn't be trying to stop people lying about it and discrediting them even more than I could ever dream of doing on a wrestling games forum. If someone does have a point against punishing false rapes that isn't "What about real rapes?" Or "You're only hurting real rapes" I am all ears, the stage is all yours.

The one thing I will say though, is that both false and real rapes can carry very similar negative effects for their victims, especially in the mental health department. Granted, not all victims of false rapes are getting beaten to death or committing suicide, just like not all victims of real rapes are going for the worst case option, but the effects are still there. I am thankful that neither myself not anyone I personally know have been raped, so I can't really speak on them from a personal perspective, but I have seen the effects of a false rape in person, and when it hits, it sticks extremely well for a very, very long time. Please just check out the below links if the mods allow them if you dont believe me.

https://www.reddit.c...tForTheAccused/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rape/

#184 AONO.

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:29 PM

Anon: I had a long post ready to counter you, but me being the king of stupidity, I went and deleted it and I really can't be arsed to retype it. I will say I do 110% agree with you on some things though, such as that you can deal with real rape victims without making it an "us or them" situation, I have never denied that, and never will. It's just that the only real points I have seen fighting against punishing false rapes are trying to spin it back to real rapes. It's not that I mean to discredit real rape victims, if I was I wouldn't be trying to stop people lying about it and discrediting them even more than I could ever dream of doing on a wrestling games forum. If someone does have a point against punishing false rapes that isn't "What about real rapes?" Or "You're only hurting real rapes" I am all ears, the stage is all yours.

The one thing I will say though, is that both false and real rapes can carry very similar negative effects for their victims, especially in the mental health department. Granted, not all victims of false rapes are getting beaten to death or committing suicide, just like not all victims of real rapes are going for the worst case option, but the effects are still there. I am thankful that neither myself not anyone I personally know have been raped, so I can't really speak on them from a personal perspective, but I have seen the effects of a false rape in person, and when it hits, it sticks extremely well for a very, very long time. Please just check out the below links if the mods allow them if you dont believe me.

https://www.reddit.c...tForTheAccused/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rape/

 

 

Ok, so again, you don't seem to grasp this one thing. Nobody is AGAINST fighting false rape accusations. And there is no "spinning back" going on. I mean, this was my conclusion, and since you said it in the end, it confirmed it. You said you know somebody who was falsely accused. And this is not me being condescending, but you are not being really objective here. You are saying you don't mean to make it as "us vs them", but what I am saying to you is that they way you go about it, does that, even if you don't mean it. Because you again said: "If someone does have a point against punishing false rapes that isn't "What about real rapes?" Or "You're only hurting real rapes" I am all ears, the stage is all yours."

 

Look, yes, in both cases there is obvious psychological trauma involved. But you simply cannot equate effects of rape with effect of being falsely accused of rape. These reddit threads are only surface level. I'm not sure how can you just brush it off by saying it's similar. It's not me not believing you, because I don't negate the fact that being falsely accused can have a negative impact on a person. And tbh I'm not sure how to explain the differences between those two acts, because it really baffles my mind that you don't see how different they are. 

 

Also, why am I, and presumably others argue with you over this matter is also this: it does disservice to combat rape. Why? Because exactly what we are now discussing. The things you've said, and the way you've laid it out relativizes rape itself, and the effects of it. 

 

My suggestion is this, as I've said, I support you thinking about this problem, but you need to change your perspective on it. Look at it from a different angle. Because, since you've had a personal relation with the problem of "false accusation", you are closer to it than with with the problem of the "act of rape". You look at it more subjectively and irrationally. And hey, yeah, I get it, that's why I am suggesting to try and switch the perspective and see it from a different point of view. Because again, nobody is against what you are saying, and you make it seem like they/we are. And I can only refer to my last post again. 


Edited by AONO., 01 December 2019 - 05:34 PM.


#185 M3J

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:37 AM

Why am I not surprised you're here with your whaboutisms involving real rape? You want more actual rape victims to be believed? Punish those who abuse the system and lie about it. Simples. As it stands right now there is no reason not to lie. Sure 5% maybe false, but if there 101,151 rape cases in the US in 2018 (source: statista.com) that is 5,057 innocents being jailed, 5,057 being beaten to death for doing no wrong, 5,057 people losing their jobs through no fault of their own, 5,057 people being made social outcasts because of a lie. And that is without going into unreported false rape accusations too. Accused =/= guilty, you need to learn that.

People defending false accusations engage in more whataboutisms that they don't really care about.

 

Yes, I want more actual rape victims to be believed and for guilty rapists to be punished before focusing on false accusations, which rarely happens. We can do both side-by-side, but the problem with that is that anyone can say "but false accusations!" when the accusation was proven true, but the judge or cop let the rapist get away.

 

Often, people who focus on false rape accusations usually have something to hide themselves. Excuse me for being more worried about victims, like a woman in India who was raped and killed and had her body burned. 

 

I'm 120% confident that the real % of false accusations is no higher than 2%, when you consider unreported rape and everything else. And how are those people being beaten to death? Losing their jobs? Do you have proof of 5,057 people losing their jobs or being beaten to death or being made social outcasts?

 

I know plenty, however you need to learn that victims' lives matter as much as victims of actual false accusations. It's disturbing how you vehemently criticize false accusations but don't talk about actual victims of rape or high percentage of rapists getting away or with light slap on their wrist. You and I are more likely to get sexually assaulted than accused of rape.

 

Like, most universities in US are under fire because even with proof, they barely do anything to rapists other than suspension, at best. Me Too Movement started because of all the harassers and rapists getting away with their crimes, like Harvey Weinstein, especially since victims fear retribution. 

 

There is no reason for most people to lie about being raped. Dr. Ford spoke up about Brett Kavanaugh assaulting her, and she got vilified and her house burned. One or two underaged teens accused Errol Flynn of statutory rape, but their history was brought up, their names dragged through mud, and Flynn cleared of charges. 

 

 

you are *censored*ing disgusting.

you saying it's "simples" proves you are uneducated on the matter. stop *censored*ing disscrediting rape victims due to false rape accusations.


How am I discrediting rape victims? I like the way you said nothing about M3J's "lulz" which is just as bad. I am not discrediting rape victims. We shouldn't assume the accuser is lying, BUT we also shouldn't assume the accused is guilty either.

 

You are discrediting rape victims, that's one of the reasons why people bring up false rape accusations.

 

Anon: I had a long post ready to counter you, but me being the king of stupidity, I went and deleted it and I really can't be arsed to retype it. I will say I do 110% agree with you on some things though, such as that you can deal with real rape victims without making it an "us or them" situation, I have never denied that, and never will. It's just that the only real points I have seen fighting against punishing false rapes are trying to spin it back to real rapes. It's not that I mean to discredit real rape victims, if I was I wouldn't be trying to stop people lying about it and discrediting them even more than I could ever dream of doing on a wrestling games forum. If someone does have a point against punishing false rapes that isn't "What about real rapes?" Or "You're only hurting real rapes" I am all ears, the stage is all yours.

The one thing I will say though, is that both false and real rapes can carry very similar negative effects for their victims, especially in the mental health department. Granted, not all victims of false rapes are getting beaten to death or committing suicide, just like not all victims of real rapes are going for the worst case option, but the effects are still there. I am thankful that neither myself not anyone I personally know have been raped, so I can't really speak on them from a personal perspective, but I have seen the effects of a false rape in person, and when it hits, it sticks extremely well for a very, very long time. Please just check out the below links if the mods allow them if you dont believe me.

https://www.reddit.c...tForTheAccused/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rape/

False rape accusation does not have similar negative effect for victims as actual act of rape itself. "You clearly do not know any victim of rape, if you actually do think this," was what I originally said before I read the sentence, but thank you for proving my point at how ignorant you are towards actual victims of rape. Based on the stories the victims have shared, rape is waaaaay worse than false accusations and has way worse of negative effects all around than false accusations. 

 

And while this doesn't have to be an "us vs. them" situation, it turns into that when people who don't care about rape or women or want to defend men or rape bring up false rape accusation stats. Again, rape is worse than false accusation, in which most men accused falsely tend to recover while victims of rape aren't likely to recover. 



#186 King RyderFan

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:05 AM

lulz
 
most male college students get away with rape, if not a light slap on the wrist, at least here. It's still stupid as hell to be so focused on false rape accusations when maybe, 5% of all accusations are false, and that's not counting unreported rape and actual accusations ignored by the cops or whatnot.


So the bolded bits there aren't fighting back against false rape accusations? The first bit is blatantly treating them as a joke and minimising the seriousness of being falsely accused far worse than anything I've said, and the second is outright questioning my intelligence for pushing in favour of seeing them get punished. Not to mention that statistic downplaying FRAs. ("Oh it's only 5%, we shouldn't bother.") I don't mean to minimise rapes, but when things like that get posted it's hard not to. I do appreciate you recognising the seriousness of them, but the fact that posts like those still exist really get my blood boiling. And the only reason I said that bit you bolded is because those are literally (not figuratively, literally) the only defences I have seen that have any sort of merit. It's tiring seeing people use real rapes to minimise and downplay false ones.

I never said they were the exact same, just that they had similar effects. Obviously the deeper you dig, the more differences there are, no two cases of rape are the same, especially when the true/false divide begins.

Again, I do appreciate you seeing that false rapes are damaging, and maybe the fact I have seen one but not the other is weighing my judgement a bit. The thing is, people do push back and it's incredibly infuriating to see.

#187 M3J

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:26 AM

 

lulz
 
most male college students get away with rape, if not a light slap on the wrist, at least here. It's still stupid as hell to be so focused on false rape accusations when maybe, 5% of all accusations are false, and that's not counting unreported rape and actual accusations ignored by the cops or whatnot.


So the bolded bits there aren't fighting back against false rape accusations? The first bit is blatantly treating them as a joke and minimising the seriousness of being falsely accused far worse than anything I've said, and the second is outright questioning my intelligence for pushing in favour of seeing them get punished. Not to mention that statistic downplaying FRAs. ("Oh it's only 5%, we shouldn't bother.") I don't mean to minimise rapes, but when things like that get posted it's hard not to. I do appreciate you recognising the seriousness of them, but the fact that posts like those still exist really get my blood boiling. And the only reason I said that bit you bolded is because those are literally (not figuratively, literally) the only defences I have seen that have any sort of merit. It's tiring seeing people use real rapes to minimise and downplay false ones.

I never said they were the exact same, just that they had similar effects. Obviously the deeper you dig, the more differences there are, no two cases of rape are the same, especially when the true/false divide begins.

Again, I do appreciate you seeing that false rapes are damaging, and maybe the fact I have seen one but not the other is weighing my judgement a bit. The thing is, people do push back and it's incredibly infuriating to see.

 

"To be so focused on false rape accusations." There's nothing jokey about false rape accusations but again, rape and rapists getting away with their crime is far more serious than false rape accusations. And again, even the guilty often go back to their lives like nothing happened - like Brock Turner and Shane Piche. No jailtime, if any. 

 

You are minimizing rape when you brush aside rape and rape victims and focus SOLELY on false rape accusations. All you say is "aww that's bad people get raped and that it's so high, but false accusations suck and are worse!"

 

And I believe I said we should focus more on rapists getting away and rape actually happening, not that we shouldn't bother with false rape accusations. I don't get why you keep arguing that false rape accusations are more serious and worse than rape and generally seem like you don't give a shit about the victims and would-be victims. 

 

It's tiring seeing people use false accusations to minimize and downplay real rapes, especially when you consider how many rapists get away with their crimes to attack their next victims, and how many women have been sexually assaulted and raped. Stats and data show over 60% of rapes go unreported (I think?) while over 85% of rapists get away, and less than 8% of accusations are false, while there's a high backlog of rape kits, and yet people would rather focus on false accusations. 

 

There is no similar effect to false accusations and actually being raped, and anyone who knows a victim or has been a victim can tell you that. 

 

Deal with it. Victims of rape don't like being pushed back with false accusations being worse than rape or false accusations being brought up. 



#188 King RyderFan

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:36 AM


Why am I not surprised you're here with your whaboutisms involving real rape? You want more actual rape victims to be believed? Punish those who abuse the system and lie about it. Simples. As it stands right now there is no reason not to lie. Sure 5% maybe false, but if there 101,151 rape cases in the US in 2018 (source: statista.com) that is 5,057 innocents being jailed, 5,057 being beaten to death for doing no wrong, 5,057 people losing their jobs through no fault of their own, 5,057 people being made social outcasts because of a lie. And that is without going into unreported false rape accusations too. Accused =/= guilty, you need to learn that.

People defending false accusations engage in more whataboutisms that they don't really care about.
 
1. Yes, I want more actual rape victims to be believed and for guilty rapists to be punished before focusing on false accusations, which rarely happens. We can do both side-by-side, but the problem with that is that anyone can say "but false accusations!" when the accusation was proven true, but the judge or cop let the rapist get away.
 
2. Often, people who focus on false rape accusations usually have something to hide themselves. Excuse me for being more worried about victims, like a woman in India who was raped and killed and had her body burned. 
 
3. I'm 120% confident that the real % of false accusations is no higher than 2%, when you consider unreported rape and everything else. And how are those people being beaten to death? Losing their jobs? Do you have proof of 5,057 people losing their jobs or being beaten to death or being made social outcasts?
 
4. I know plenty, however you need to learn that victims' lives matter as much as victims of actual false accusations. It's disturbing how you vehemently criticize false accusations but don't talk about actual victims of rape or high percentage of rapists getting away or with light slap on their wrist. You and I are more likely to get sexually assaulted than accused of rape.
 
5. Like, most universities in US are under fire because even with proof, they barely do anything to rapists other than suspension, at best. Me Too Movement started because of all the harassers and rapists getting away with their crimes, like Harvey Weinstein, especially since victims fear retribution. 
 
6. There is no reason for most people to lie about being raped. Dr. Ford spoke up about Brett Kavanaugh assaulting her, and she got vilified and her house burned. One or two underaged teens accused Errol Flynn of statutory rape, but their history was brought up, their names dragged through mud, and Flynn cleared of charges. 
 

 

you are *censored*ing disgusting.

you saying it's "simples" proves you are uneducated on the matter. stop *censored*ing disscrediting rape victims due to false rape accusations.

How am I discrediting rape victims? I like the way you said nothing about M3J's "lulz" which is just as bad. I am not discrediting rape victims. We shouldn't assume the accuser is lying, BUT we also shouldn't assume the accused is guilty either.
 
You are discrediting rape victims, that's one of the reasons why people bring up false rape accusations.
 

Anon: I had a long post ready to counter you, but me being the king of stupidity, I went and deleted it and I really can't be arsed to retype it. I will say I do 110% agree with you on some things though, such as that you can deal with real rape victims without making it an "us or them" situation, I have never denied that, and never will. It's just that the only real points I have seen fighting against punishing false rapes are trying to spin it back to real rapes. It's not that I mean to discredit real rape victims, if I was I wouldn't be trying to stop people lying about it and discrediting them even more than I could ever dream of doing on a wrestling games forum. If someone does have a point against punishing false rapes that isn't "What about real rapes?" Or "You're only hurting real rapes" I am all ears, the stage is all yours.

The one thing I will say though, is that both false and real rapes can carry very similar negative effects for their victims, especially in the mental health department. Granted, not all victims of false rapes are getting beaten to death or committing suicide, just like not all victims of real rapes are going for the worst case option, but the effects are still there. I am thankful that neither myself not anyone I personally know have been raped, so I can't really speak on them from a personal perspective, but I have seen the effects of a false rape in person, and when it hits, it sticks extremely well for a very, very long time. Please just check out the below links if the mods allow them if you dont believe me.

https://www.reddit.c...tForTheAccused/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rape/

7. False rape accusation does not have similar negative effect for victims as actual act of rape itself. "You clearly do not know any victim of rape, if you actually do think this," was what I originally said before I read the sentence, but thank you for proving my point at how ignorant you are towards actual victims of rape. Based on the stories the victims have shared, rape is waaaaay worse than false accusations and has way worse of negative effects all around than false accusations. 
 
8. And while this doesn't have to be an "us vs. them" situation, it turns into that when people who don't care about rape or women or want to defend men or rape bring up false rape accusation stats. Again, rape is worse than false accusation, in which most men accused falsely tend to recover while victims of rape aren't likely to recover. 

1. The legal system is beyond screwed. I'm not denying people who are actually guilty get away, and those should be taken care of. I could easily flip that point around and point out that there are people who say "but real rapes!" even if the accused is 100% innocent.

2. Go ahead, I have nothing to hide myself, and I agree that was awful.

3. Even 2% is still way too damn high, and what about unreported false rape accusations? Stop moving the goalposts. As for proof of the consequences of false rape accusations:

https://www.kwtx.com...-506577331.html
https://www.cbsnews....of-brian-banks/
https://www.unilad.c...-his-innocence/
https://www.dailymai...mpensation.html
https://onlpharmacy....nocent.html?m=1
https://www.news.com...5a8534a31fd142e
#Kickvic

I could go on, but I think the point's been made.

4. When I said that victims who have been sexually assaulted matter less than victims of false accusations? Both matter. It's disturbing you keep denying the falsely accused. Everyone knows how traumatising rape is, but ignores false accusations until it hits them personally.

5. Did you even read the very first article I posted? That step in the right direction is getting rid of those kangaroo courts universities use that punish the innocent and protect the guilty in favour of an actual proper court of law.

6. There is no reason not to lie either. Take Jenna Beale for instance. 10 years for trying to ruin 9 guy's lives, in other words a year and bit for each guy. Compared to the average sentence most people found guilty of serial rape get and it's horrifying.

https://www.spiked-o...t-away-with-it/

7. So the trauma and wanting to commit suicide don't matter? Obviously it's a case by case issue but those themes are prevalent on both reddits I posted. Heck, support for the accused isn't even full stories. On the front page alone there is a meme and someone asking for help with being accused of selling counterfeit tickets, not rape.

8. I agree that it shouldn't be a "this or that", you are the person turning it into one. "People who don't care about women or want to defend men" nice to see you care about same-sex or woman-on-man rape. "Most men" dont just shrug off and recover from a false accusation, especially if their job involves being around women, children or the vulnerable. No school is going to employ a teacher with a rape on his record, even if said rape is false. No store is going to employ someone with a sexual assault charge.


 

lulz
 
most male college students get away with rape, if not a light slap on the wrist, at least here. It's still stupid as hell to be so focused on false rape accusations when maybe, 5% of all accusations are false, and that's not counting unreported rape and actual accusations ignored by the cops or whatnot.

So the bolded bits there aren't fighting back against false rape accusations? The first bit is blatantly treating them as a joke and minimising the seriousness of being falsely accused far worse than anything I've said, and the second is outright questioning my intelligence for pushing in favour of seeing them get punished. Not to mention that statistic downplaying FRAs. ("Oh it's only 5%, we shouldn't bother.") I don't mean to minimise rapes, but when things like that get posted it's hard not to. I do appreciate you recognising the seriousness of them, but the fact that posts like those still exist really get my blood boiling. And the only reason I said that bit you bolded is because those are literally (not figuratively, literally) the only defences I have seen that have any sort of merit. It's tiring seeing people use real rapes to minimise and downplay false ones.

I never said they were the exact same, just that they had similar effects. Obviously the deeper you dig, the more differences there are, no two cases of rape are the same, especially when the true/false divide begins.

Again, I do appreciate you seeing that false rapes are damaging, and maybe the fact I have seen one but not the other is weighing my judgement a bit. The thing is, people do push back and it's incredibly infuriating to see.
 
"To be so focused on false rape accusations." There's nothing jokey about false rape accusations but again, rape and rapists getting away with their crime is far more serious than false rape accusations. And again, even the guilty often go back to their lives like nothing happened - like Brock Turner and Shane Piche. No jailtime, if any. 
 
You are minimizing rape when you brush aside rape and rape victims and focus SOLELY on false rape accusations. All you say is "aww that's bad people get raped and that it's so high, but false accusations suck and are worse!"
 
And I believe I said we should focus more on rapists getting away and rape actually happening, not that we shouldn't bother with false rape accusations. I don't get why you keep arguing that false rape accusations are more serious and worse than rape and generally seem like you don't give a shit about the victims and would-be victims. 
 
It's tiring seeing people use false accusations to minimize and downplay real rapes, especially when you consider how many rapists get away with their crimes to attack their next victims, and how many women have been sexually assaulted and raped. Stats and data show over 60% of rapes go unreported (I think?) while over 85% of rapists get away, and less than 8% of accusations are false, while there's a high backlog of rape kits, and yet people would rather focus on false accusations. 
 
There is no similar effect to false accusations and actually being raped, and anyone who knows a victim or has been a victim can tell you that. 
 
Deal with it. Victims of rape don't like being pushed back with false accusations being worse than rape or false accusations being brought up. 

"There's nothing jokey about false rape accusations" Rich coming from a guy whose very first word on the subject was "lulz".

Do we really need to make this a dick measuring contest on what is worse? Both are appalling. And the guilty getting away with either crime is heinous. Be it Brock Turner or the Duke lacrosse case.

When I have said one is worse than the other? Although if you want my answer false accusations are worse for three very simple reasons:
A: You are wrecking innocent lives
B: You are taking time and resources away from true victims of rape and those who do truly need it
C: You are making it harder for true victims to be believed

How anyone can say anything is worse than B or C I do not know.

I didn't get that vibe from your post, considering it started with "lulz" and seemed generally negative on the issue. I do apologise if I read it wrong though.

I keep arguing and pushing false accusations for reasons A-C above. If they weren't an issue I wouldn't be pushing false accusations so much.

Again, I haven't been downplaying real rapes, that's the whole reason I push doing something about false accusations, to make it easier for true victims to be believed and for them to have more time and resources available for their cases that aren't being wasted on lying parasites. From I read the stat went 5% of rape cases are proven false, 5% true, and an extremely alarming 90% we never know the truth. I don't know about you, but that we need to focus on getting that 90% right down.

I genuinely hope you or no one else you know are ever falsely accused. I have seen the effects of one and that's all I'll say on that.

And the falsely accused don't like being pushed back with being told they're a minor percentage or that they're guilty anyway.

#189 M3J

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:08 AM

1. The legal system is beyond screwed. I'm not denying people who are actually guilty get away, and those should be taken care of. I could easily flip that point around and point out that there are people who say "but real rapes!" even if the accused is 100% innocent.

2. Go ahead, I have nothing to hide myself, and I agree that was awful.

3. Even 2% is still way too damn high, and what about unreported false rape accusations? Stop moving the goalposts. As for proof of the consequences of false rape accusations:

https://www.kwtx.com...-506577331.html
https://www.cbsnews....of-brian-banks/
https://www.unilad.c...-his-innocence/
https://www.dailymai...mpensation.html
https://onlpharmacy....nocent.html?m=1
https://www.news.com...5a8534a31fd142e
#Kickvic

I could go on, but I think the point's been made.

4. When I said that victims who have been sexually assaulted matter less than victims of false accusations? Both matter. It's disturbing you keep denying the falsely accused. Everyone knows how traumatising rape is, but ignores false accusations until it hits them personally.

5. Did you even read the very first article I posted? That step in the right direction is getting rid of those kangaroo courts universities use that punish the innocent and protect the guilty in favour of an actual proper court of law.

6. There is no reason not to lie either. Take Jenna Beale for instance. 10 years for trying to ruin 9 guy's lives, in other words a year and bit for each guy. Compared to the average sentence most people found guilty of serial rape get and it's horrifying.

https://www.spiked-o...t-away-with-it/

7. So the trauma and wanting to commit suicide don't matter? Obviously it's a case by case issue but those themes are prevalent on both reddits I posted. Heck, support for the accused isn't even full stories. On the front page alone there is a meme and someone asking for help with being accused of selling counterfeit tickets, not rape.

8. I agree that it shouldn't be a "this or that", you are the person turning it into one. "People who don't care about women or want to defend men" nice to see you care about same-sex or woman-on-man rape. "Most men" dont just shrug off and recover from a false accusation, especially if their job involves being around women, children or the vulnerable. No school is going to employ a teacher with a rape on his record, even if said rape is false. No store is going to employ someone with a sexual assault charge.

1. Legal system is screwed, and it's why we need to focus on getting the guilty punished unless we can focus on false accusations as well and not call every accusation as false. Flipping it around doesn't help your argument when the guilty is rarely punished, and there's only very few instances of false accusations actually ruining lives. 

 

2. I dunno man, you're way too obsessed with going after false accusations and seem not to care about victims.

 

3. Two percent is still pretty low enough compared to the amount of rapists and sexual offenders walking free. What do you mean by unreported false rape accusations? Your point hasn't really been made, because again, 2% of false accusations is nothing to majority of women being assaulted or harassed while seeing no justice. Few instances of false accusations ruining lives doesn't change the fact that actual accusations rarely ruin lives. Brett Kavanaugh for example was still nominated to Supreme Court while Trump became a president despite accusations. I could name far more instances of rapists and sexual assaulters getting away. 

 

4. You continuously imply it with your tunnel vision on false rape accusations. People continuously make that well-known when they continuously harp on and on about false rape accusations without even mentioning or worrying about actual rape stats and data, and ignoring the rape victims. It's hard to believe them as it is, and focusing on false rape accusations sadly makes it harder to believe them, hence why I don't support focusing on both at the same time. You don't seem to know how traumatizing rape is, you don't understand a bit of how traumatizing it is, and you yourself admitted you don't know any victim of rape to really understand why we're more concerned about rape than we are about false accusations.

 

5. Don't remember. Either way, doesn't change what I said. Too much focus on false accusations when proven accusations barely do anything. Hell, no matter what the world sees, there are still tons of people that blame women and refuse to do anything to make the world safer for them. Until that happens or people stop trying to defend rapists, the issue of false accusation shouldn't come before the issue of rape and the issue of the guilty getting away with it. 

 

6. There are reasons not to lie - name gets dragged through mud, your past gets brought up, etc. I think more white women have accused black men of rape falsely and have won because the law does not care about black men, but if more of them did it to white men, they'd be more likely to lose. Ten years is a good punishment, while most serial rapists seem to serve about 5-6 years despite being sentenced for about 10 years or so, on average for both.

 

7. So the trauma of being falsely accused is more important than the trauma of being attacked and raped? Having your body defiled and attacked? Being assaulted? Nearly being killed? The fear that you may get killed? Pretty sure most men don't walk around being scared of falsely accused (even though as I said, we're more likely to be sexually assaulted than falsely accused), but I know most women live in fear of being raped or kidnapped or even killed. Ruth George in Chicago for example was killed a week or so ago for ignoring a man's catcalls.  

 

8. I explained why. It'd be nice to focus on both, but all it takes is a judge to just say false accusation (even with proof) for people to say other accusations are false as well. Dunno about you, but the violence is way worse. I care more about same-sex rape and women-on-men/boys rape than most men saying "men too!" How often have I seen victims like Terry Crews be attacked when they came forward with men assaulting them? Or men wishing they were the boys who were raped by female teachers in high school, just because those teachers are attractive? Women get away with rape because of men, and men get away with rape because of men. Pretty sure schools and stores will still employ these people. Can't be assed to look it up now.
 
 
 
 

"There's nothing jokey about false rape accusations" Rich coming from a guy whose very first word on the subject was "lulz".

Do we really need to make this a dick measuring contest on what is worse? Both are appalling. And the guilty getting away with either crime is heinous. Be it Brock Turner or the Duke lacrosse case.

When I have said one is worse than the other? Although if you want my answer false accusations are worse for three very simple reasons:
A: You are wrecking innocent lives
B: You are taking time and resources away from true victims of rape and those who do truly need it
C: You are making it harder for true victims to be believed

How anyone can say anything is worse than B or C I do not know.

I didn't get that vibe from your post, considering it started with "lulz" and seemed generally negative on the issue. I do apologise if I read it wrong though.

I keep arguing and pushing false accusations for reasons A-C above. If they weren't an issue I wouldn't be pushing false accusations so much.

Again, I haven't been downplaying real rapes, that's the whole reason I push doing something about false accusations, to make it easier for true victims to be believed and for them to have more time and resources available for their cases that aren't being wasted on lying parasites. From I read the stat went 5% of rape cases are proven false, 5% true, and an extremely alarming 90% we never know the truth. I don't know about you, but that we need to focus on getting that 90% right down.

I genuinely hope you or no one else you know are ever falsely accused. I have seen the effects of one and that's all I'll say on that.

And the falsely accused don't like being pushed back with being told they're a minor percentage or that they're guilty anyway.

Lulz at your post being yet again about false accusations and not caring about actual victims of rape. Most talks of false accusations are usually made to argue against rape and victims, not in support of victims of false accusations. 

 

No, because rape is way worse, as well as guilty rapists getting away, regardless of gender. Again, showing your ignorance in regards to actual victims of rape and sexual assault. 

 

B & C - people generally don't believe victims anyway or try to help them or provide resources. False accusations may provide more ammunitions, but not as much. 

 

No, you keep doing that out of bias because of someone you know, and because you understand nothing about what it's like for victims of rape to live with the experience while they see their rapists walk away free. There's no justice there, and the victims are often the ones attacked by others. Brock Turner's victim, Chanel Miller, was criticized and blamed for her rape. India decided to blame women having cell phones and wearing jeans for their rape as well as the rape epidemic, and I think tried to or successfully passed laws to prevent women from having cell phones.

 

Fact is, there could be 0 false accusation in the past century or maybe one, and people would still bring that up or pretend like false accusations is common or constantly happens, like people did with transgender women using women's bathrooms. Victims won't be believed regardless of % of false accusations, because people don't want to believe it. 

 

Er, pretty sure we do know the truth for most of the 90%, but the society is way too obsessed with protecting men. Willing to bet at least 90% are proven rapes.

 

And the victims of rape don't like seeing their rapists walk away while people focus on false accusations despite that being extremely rare. And victims who have accused (claimed to be false accusations) don't like seeing false accusations be brought up when they were called liars because of cops trying to protect the rapists, the judge caring more about the rapists' future, or family and friends refusing to believe them because the rapists "seem like nice guys." 

 

But whatever, you do you. 



#190 King RyderFan

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:29 AM

^:lol: At all that.

I will say though that maybe, just maybe you should stop and think that not all people who want false rapes are against doing stuff in favour of real rapes. I'm on the same side as you, why are you trying to fight it?

#191 AONO.

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:17 PM



 


When I have said one is worse than the other? Although if you want my answer false accusations are worse for three very simple reasons:
A: You are wrecking innocent lives
B: You are taking time and resources away from true victims of rape and those who do truly need it
C: You are making it harder for true victims to be believed

How anyone can say anything is worse than B or C I do not know
.

Again, I haven't been downplaying real rapes, that's the whole reason I push doing something about false accusations, to make it easier for true victims to be believed and for them to have more time and resources available for their cases that aren't being wasted on lying parasites. From I read the stat went 5% of rape cases are proven false, 5% true, and an extremely alarming 90% we never know the truth. I don't know about you, but that we need to focus on getting that 90% right down.

I genuinely hope you or no one else you know are ever falsely accused. I have seen the effects of one and that's all I'll say on that.

And the falsely accused don't like being pushed back with being told they're a minor percentage or that they're guilty anyway.

 

 

 

^ :lol: At all that.

I will say though that maybe, just maybe you should stop and think that not all people who want false rapes are against doing stuff in favour of real rapes. I'm on the same side as you, why are you trying to fight it?

 

man, are you *censored*ing serious at this point?

You say you are not downplaying it and at the same time saying how you think false accusation is worse than rape itself?

Just cover your ears, shut up about it and listen, educate yourself on the matter. Because at this point all you are doing is disservice to the people who you are supposedly trying to give a voice to, while at the same time plain disrespecting victims of rape. You yourself is saying you never knew a victim of rape. So here is a suggestion, talk to one. How the *Censored* can you talk about knowing the effects of being false accused if you obviously have no idea and not taking into consideration of the effects of the act itself?

 

And wtf is with that last bolded part? 90% we will never know the truth? Wtf does that even mean? So you think there is a possibility that 90% are also false? Or even half of them?

 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, thinking, "hey, he is maybe just confused and doesn't understand it, it's personal for him." But at this point, you are just being plain ignorant and need to shut up about it until you understand it more. And you don't get to just put that lol face at the end and shrug it off, because you said some unbelievably stupid, ignorant and in the end hurtful shit. 


Edited by AONO., 02 December 2019 - 01:20 PM.


#192 King RyderFan

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:56 PM

Aono: I actually am serious. Rape is the most serious crime out there, no argument from me, which is why I absolutely despise anyone who tries to make it harder for victims to be believed or taking resources away, be it the whole "but they're so nice!" rubbish, falsely accusing others, or however else you can think of. I'll make you a deal, I'll talk to some actual rape victims if you talk to some of the falsely accused. I can talk when I personally see someone's life get wrecked beyond repair with my own two eyes because of a simple lie.

Let me put it this way; rape is horrific, no doubt about that, the physical, mental and emotional scars it leaves behind cannot be described with simple words on a screen, to the point of some people never fully recovering. But to outright take those scars people go through and *censored*ing LIE about them to fuel your own goals and put an innocent person through hell? You may not agree, but there is nothing worse than that to me and is far, far, far more disgraceful than anything I have said or could possibly say. Though it doesn't need to be a dick measuring contest of "which is worse?", they are both incredibly horrific and if you are guilty of either you should be locked up the key not just thrown away, but destroyed.

It means exactly what I said. 90% aren't proven either way. They could be true or false, hence the reason I said it was extremely alarming that it was so high, and that is without taking unreported accusations and incidents into account. I'm not gonna speculate on the actual number, it's not my area to do so, and I honestly don't know.

I've seen just as much ignorance coming from the other side too, from "2% is low enough" to "most men tend to recover". Firstly no % is "low enough", if I said "we should aim to just put 98% of rapists in jail until false accusations are taken care of, that's high enough" you'd be all over me and rightfully so. You should aim for 100%, not leaving any parasite capable of such a vile act to roam free. Moving onto the second quote firstly men aren't the only ones who can be falsely accused, it can hit either gender. Secondly they don't just "recover", whatever that means. As for the laughing emoji? That was in response to M3J using "lulz" again. If he's not going to take it seriously why should I? At least you can have a decent conversation, and I appreciate that.

Edited by King RyderFan, 02 December 2019 - 02:59 PM.