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Future Gameplay Ideas and Improvements Thread


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#1 EJ!

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:22 AM

Now that we've had a lot of time to play 2K18, I think it's time to bring this thread back and look toward the future. I would love to see what mechanics need improvement and what needs to be implemented for the gameplay to be better. This is for core gameplay mechanics only, so nothing about MyCareer or CAW mode or Inferno match or Community Creations etc., just because I think all that stuff gets enough voices for it and core gameplay isn't really talked about enough.

 

I'll start with the (edited) written feedback I sent for the gameplay section of that survey with a few more additions. Of course I don't expect any of this to make it in any time soon but since I'm a nerd and literally daydream of how the gameplay could be better, I type these things up at any slight opportunity that somebody at 2K might consider them. 

 

@GMP: I stole the hell out of your bracing idea from the old thread and put my own twist on it.

 

Spoiler
 
Even with all that, I forgot a lot and have stuff to add. 
 
-Chain wrestling
Spoiler
 
-More on reversals and bracing
Spoiler
 
Submissions and Limb targeting and damage
Spoiler
 
Groggy state, staggering and offensive countering
Spoiler
 
 
"Grapples" and Set ups
Spoiler
 
New CAMoveset move positions and Death to OMG Moments
Spoiler
 
Everything else is somewhat miscellaneous.
 
-I don't know why they haven't figured out the manual rollout system yet. They should bring back the limited roll outs and a high damage/low stamina roll out should not allow me to rollout onto my feet. The multi-man rollout animation works fine for this. Use it.
 
-The carry system should allow for manual tag moves like the doomsday device and whatnot.
 
-An adrenaline meter that makes one impervious to damage and low stamina for a VERY short period of time when it's activated so late match moments can be even more exciting.
 
-More customizable animations like how we can pick people up or how we run, etc.
 
-Diving moonsault to a standing opponent.
 
-"Squash", "mid-card", and "Main event" setting for matches. The undercard should not be filled with false finishes. Also cut down on the AI kicking out of finishers. 
 
That's all I got. Yes I know I probably take this way too seriously but dammit I love wrestling and love video games and want a great wrestling video game. If you actually read it all I would love feedback, if not, that's okay but post your ideas. Maybe Timschel is still lurking around and might lob some of our ideas to the devs.
 


#2 Mango kid

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:42 PM

I forgot to add this in the feedback but the match cards should represent more real life you shouldn't have made eventers on the beginning of the card and jobbers at the main event on a card

#3 eastcoastkody

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:54 PM

-- double the amount of strong strikes slots

-- Seated Against ropes position (ala Brie Mode running knee strike)

-- Ground near Ropes position (for stomps where u are holding the rope, Balors stomp, Jinders Knee Drops, Decapitator etc)

-- On all fours position (ala No Mercy 64)

-- Kneeling down on both knees position (ala Yes Kicks)

-- Environmental Running Dives (run towards steps from an angle for Kofi's Axe Handle or Romans Running Diving Superman Punch off the ringside steps. Run towards Barricade to do Jeff Hardys Running Diving Clothesline off Barricade...or maybe Springboard off Barricade and do a Moonsault like Sami Zayn of the barricade)

-- more Running Attack slots (we need 4 ala No Mercy 64)

-- have reversals tied to the moves in our movesets (i think No Mercy 64 did this?) Instead of us doing some random move that no wrestler would ever attempt. Let the reversal feed into a back suplex thats in our moveset.

-- Let us edit as many reversals as possible. Waistlock reversals (ala Fire pro allows this). Top Rope reversals (also in Fire Pro)

-- get rid of all the ridiculous reversal animations that a wrestler would never do. There are far too many, "we tried this in mocap...and it looked cool even tho its not practical nor has it ever been used in an actual match" kinda reversals in this game.

-- accurate movesets. For the love of all that is holy, have someone check every moveset and remove the glaringly incorrect stuff.

-- Dive Off the Announce Table (ala No Mercy 64)

-- moves from one announce table to the other (ala Romans Reigns spear off announce table thru another table)

-- Chair scaffold/bridge/saw horse or whatever u call it. When a wrestlers puts 2 chairs together facing each other. And then does a suplex or powerbomb type manuever thru the chairs (ala Ambroses Suplex Bomb onto Aj Styles thru chairs)

-- I would like to be able to edit the pin animations (ala Fire Pro). Different people do different pins.

-- Like we have a Pin Option on grapples, i would want a Taunt Option (for moves that have character specific taunt like animations. so instead of them editing out the taunt animation of Sami Zayns tilt-a-whirl backbreaker like they did a year or so ago, and making it look generic and just like the other one already in the game. We could do it normal or u hold a taunt button and it activates the little Sami Zayn arm pumping animation that it had at the end of it). Same for like a JBL powerbomb. If u liked the powerbomb but wanted to give it to a character that the "putting cigar out on back" motion wouldn't fit with...then u don't hold the taunt button while doing the JBL powerbomb.

-- Deselect Pin Options for certain moves in Edit a Moveset. To stop the A.I from using pin options on every move. (ie; I always give Roman Reigns the Powerbomb with the Jacknife pin option, because it looks most like his powerbomb. But Reigns would never do a jacknife pin after a powerbomb. Which is fine when im playing as him. But whenever the CPU is Reigns, they always attempt the jacknife pin and it breaks character and the immersion. Being able to toggle off pin options for specific moves in a moveset would prevent the CPU from doing that.

-- Randomly Rolled A.I selling. Where in the selling animation has different options. Like say a 90% chance of a regular flat back bump when u do a running clothesline. a 7% chance the opponent gets turned inside out when u land the running clothesline. And a much more rare 3% chance that the opponent backflips. So the same clothesline could result in ur opponent selling in 3 completely different ways. And maybe a damage modifier. Like if ur lucky enough to get the rare backflip animation ur opponent is stunned more or damaged more by it.

#4 EJ!

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:07 AM

I need for the controls to be more responsive. There have been too many times where I have hit a crucial reversal and was not able to capitalize because the game took too long to register my button input so my opponent retook control and I basically wasted a reversal. Part of being good is being able to capitalize on opportunities as they arrive.

The ability to step off someone who is on all fours like in HCTP to do the manual Poetry in Motion.

As a general statement, the gameplay needs to be as deep and as varied as possible to build popularity and to add to fun. How many times do you mark out playing these games? I imagine not often, everything is so controlled and predictable. Look at Youtube communities for games like NBA 2K or UFC or even for Call of Duty and other competitive games. Theres enough unpredictability in those games that there are countless community-contributed Top 10 Kills/Knockouts/Dunks/Plays videos on Youtube and that type of stuff attracts new players which ends up boosting sales. You cant necessarily do that with WWE games which is a shame because there is much about wrestling that could contribute to an online community if the game emulated it well enough. The Youtube community the games has now is full of just funny glitches and things like that, things that dont necessarily highlight the positives of the game. Yeah there are videos of extreme moments or whatnot but the big difference between that and the games I mentioned before is that those games are full of things that have a very small chance of ever being done again which is why theyre so special whereas I can watch a WWE 2K18 extreme moments video and easily decide to recreate everything I see if I wanted provided nothing was done by hack or glitch. Every gameplay mechanic I have proposed creates a game experience where truly almost anything can happen and big moments come naturally and are special because they are hard to ever recreate.

#5 Brandon-X

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:07 AM

I agree completely with you on the submission system regarding multiple stages. I love the submission mini-game and don't want to see it go, but adding 2 or even 3 stages would allow for submission specialists to actually mean something and hone their craft, while simultaneously giving players who struggle with submissions more time to escape rather than having one slapped one early and immediately giving up.

 

I will add a bunch of ideas and stuff of my own eventually (happy to see my Bracing idea getting traction by the way) in the future. 



#6 black_machismo

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 09:22 AM

The ability to step off someone who is on all fours like in HCTP to do the manual Poetry in Motion.

 

Ability to unfold the chair like WWF: JBI & RAW 2 then be able to do moves on them (like Aleister Black vs Adam cole, RKO to the chair) and as leverage like the poetry in motion, I remember chairs in Raw 2 can be used as leverage when we run on it and press as specific button.

 

Also ability to drag wrestlers to the unfolded chair and we could make the groggy wrestler seat on the chair and do moves on them. We could use the right analog on how the wrestler is to be positioned.

For example while dragging to the chair:

Move up on the right analog: Downed opponent will be set up to sit on the chair.

Move down on the right analog: Face down on the chair (can be used as a set up for a curb stomp, etc. on the chair)

Move left on the right analog: Left or right arm on the chair.

Move right on the analog: Left or right leg on the chair.

 

Same as ladders. I wish we could sandwich wrestlers between the ladder. I hate the fact that they removed the UCM on ladders. I hope they bring it back and improve it.

 

BTW was watching UFC 3 videos in YT and just noticed something. If EA can put championship belts on renders why can't 2K.

 

jNA1dZK.jpg



#7 ECWDanSelby

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 01:36 PM

I need for the controls to be more responsive. There have been too many times where I have hit a crucial reversal and was not able to capitalize because the game took too long to register my button input so my opponent retook control and I basically wasted a reversal. Part of being good is being able to capitalize on opportunities as they arrive.

 

I am amazed sometimes at how laggy the game is, graphically and control-wise.



#8 EJ!

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:34 AM

Okay I hope I shut up eventually but watching Raw reminded me of some things.

 

-Position feeding should happen more often but the speed of the animations should depend on stamina and damage. I'm not a big fan of these near death animations in the beginning of a match. Also the AI should refrain from attacking during these animations more often, they should taunt or something during this time. Charged finishers should trigger these animations as well dependent on the finisher. For example, if I do a charged finisher with Zayn, my opponent should crawl and pull himself up to the corner in position for the Helluva Kick.

 

-Manual targeting is so close to being okay. I know I'm not the only one that hates shuffling through targets in multi-man matches, especially when the guy I want to target is literally right next to me. I was thinking maybe we have an aiming system where we push down the stick like normal but then we move it in the direction of the person we want to target. If not, I would be okay with a quick and alert Smart targeting system as long as it works and is responsive.

 

-Breaking the referee's 10 count with L1+R1 instead of having to go completely in the ring and then back out, just a nice touch for things to flow better. This doesn't have to replace the ladder bridge control, but we should only be able to do a ladder bridge with the available ladders and we should be able to freely set a ladder bridge between different elevated surfaces (apron to announce table, 2nd ladder to ropes or turnbuckles, between two other ladders) so it shouldn't be bound to just those two spots around the ring. Ladder bridges should work like any other ladder function. But yeah...count-out break animation.

 

-But speaking of ladders, I was just reminded of all the things we could do with them in SvR 2011 that we inexplicably can no longer do now. Springboarding on to a ladder, running up a ladder ramp outside the ring and then hopping onto a ladder in the ring, wedging a ladder in the corner, pushing a ladder over and the person on it straddling the top rope, I need all of that back. I also want more ways to knock people off a ladder or to push the ladder over and watch the physics just wreck people. The ladder match overhaul in 2K17 was okay but it got bland very quickly with the same animations over and over.

 

-Double KO counts when two people attempt a running move at the EXACT same time. Emphasis on "exact" so it doesn't happen too often. More frequent in tag matches and singles matches with "Main Event" setting.

 

-Moves like mud hole stomps and grounded punches and Yes Kicks should work like the corner 10-count moves in the game and should be subject to a referee 5-count if continued for too long. Also, the 10-count moves shouldn't stop at 10, they should be almost unlimited until a reversal, ref stoppage, stamina drain, or manual release by holding square.

 

-The arm drags should be reanimated and the weight-appropriate receiver should roll back on to his feet if it's early in the match and his stamina is up but later when stamina is low/damage high, they should roll into a groggy state or onto a knee depending on the arm drag chosen in CAMoveset. We should be able to choose rest holds for each limb. There should also be rebound rest holds (think headlock takeover into headlock hold, things like that).

 

Strike tracking

Spoiler

 

-Tag matches aren't really as fun. The hot tags help but they could use some work. I think hot tags should be an assigned skill so not everybody has it, especially not heels. Official tag teams should have certain team skills assigned. I touched on manual, makeshift tag moves with the carry system earlier. Imagine carrying your partner and slamming him onto the opponent. Imagine slamming your opponent onto his own partner. Imagine carrying an opponent in Electric Chair position and your tag partner suicide dives him off your shoulders.

 

Cool weight detection idea 

Spoiler

-Just tons more flying moves and ways to do them so we can have true cruiserweight style matches. Triangle planchas and double springboards and some Sasuke specials, more apron dives, barricade jumps, things like that. 

 

I think I'm all out though I bet I'll dream up some more shit. The stuff in the spoiler tags really isn't long I just wanted to shorten the overall size of my post.



#9 ECWDanSelby

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:38 AM

Can we have a little bit of a ragdoll element, please? Perhaps to the OMG Moments, just to make them less 'cut-scene' like?

 

https://youtu.be/MwQglnEsm9o?t=13s


Edited by ECWDanSelby, 21 February 2018 - 08:39 AM.


#10 HeLLBlaZer#14

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:06 AM

A new   cool career mode , if they're only gonna change  the gameplay engine it won't do nothing, gameplay engine is great as it is....



#11 Brandon-X

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:02 PM

A new   cool career mode , if they're only gonna change  the gameplay engine it won't do nothing, gameplay engine is great as it is....


That is a dangerous line of thinking that encourages stagnation.

#12 M3J

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:14 PM

MyCAREER needs to improve, and I want more moves.

 

Would also be nice if we could get different variations of a move without having to use up different slots. Sweet Chin Music should have theatrics if done from corner or be like a superkick if done face-to-face. Or, Superman Punch should be a move from corner AND a running strike. Makes no sense to have it one or the other.

 

Why isn't Omega Driver a table finisher?

 

Kinda weird for Red Arrow to not hurt the person doing it if he misses.

 

Annoying that my heavyweight with maxed out strength can't lift a super heavyweight.



#13 EJ!

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:18 PM

Can we have a little bit of a ragdoll element, please? Perhaps to the OMG Moments, just to make them less 'cut-scene' like?

 

https://youtu.be/MwQglnEsm9o?t=13s

I don't mean to slight you but I used to be obsessed with these videos and I can say with full confidence that there are much better examples than this one. But this animation program, Endorphin, runs on the Euphoria engine which is basically a smart ragdoll system where bodies naturally try to correct themselves when any force is acted on them in any circumstance like you or I would in real life. Rockstar used it for GTA 4 and 5, Red Dead Redemption (probably the best looking implementation of it) and Max Payne 3. The possibilities of it are endless and could potentially cut dev time and costs down (mocappers could perform a lot of moves on mannequins) and give more time for bug testing and whatnot. They would figure out the correct algorithms and things like that to make sure bodies ALWAYS try to correct themselves and bump how they're supposed to in real life (head tucked, arms out, feet flat) from any move and any circumstance so we'd get varied bumps but they'd be realistic bumps, not flappy and crazy like a regular ragdoll. And there's a blending system in it where bodies don't have to stay the way they landed, they can smoothly transition back into a canned animation or pose which would be good for pinfall attempts and position feeding animations and whatever else. ALSO, I used to mess around with Endorphin a lot and so I know Euphoria also takes the weight of bodies and objects into account with every situation. In the program there's a base mannequin, a muscular one, and a fat one and each model reacts differently to the same forces. Euphoria is really great and should be a no-brainer for wrestling games. Unreal Engine 4 also has a decent looking physics, it has potential to be something great.

 

The Havok engine was supposed to give us good weapon physics but the devs nerfed the absolute hell out of it from the moment they started using it. Tables do have the capability of breaking realistically depending on point of force with Havok but for some reason the devs took a one-size-fits all approach.

A new   cool career mode , if they're only gonna change  the gameplay engine it won't do nothing, gameplay engine is great as it is....

This reply is annoying for a couple reasons. 1. In my OP I specifically said please refrain from talking about Career mode in this thread because it gets enough attention from fans as it is and here you are. 2. I personally haven't touched MyCareer since 2K15 but I wouldn't come into a topic specifically about MyCareer to say "they shouldn't improve MyCareer, it wouldn't do anything, we a need a new Showcase mode". Something being "great" doesn't mean it can't be improved, especially when we're talking about the core of the game, the thing that's supposed to keep people coming back, the thing that makes people say No Mercy is STILL the best wrestling game to date, the thing that's there when you strip everything else away...the actual in-ring gameplay and as someone who is crazy about wrestling, I don't think it's great just yet which is why I made this topic. I want us to propose ways to improve it where it needs to be improved.

 

 

 

Would also be nice if we could get different variations of a move without having to use up different slots. Sweet Chin Music should have theatrics if done from corner or be like a superkick if done face-to-face. Or, Superman Punch should be a move from corner AND a running strike. Makes no sense to have it one or the other.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.



#14 Mango kid

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:53 PM

I want them add heel moves back in expect the push the ref I want the ref to pull guys from corner break stuff up

#15 EJ!

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:19 AM

I want them add heel moves back in expect the push the ref I want the ref to pull guys from corner break stuff up


I knew I was forgetting stuff. Hell yeah I want that back too. Any little thing that differentiates characters is welcomed.

#16 M3J

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:16 AM

More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!

 

Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic. 



#17 Aqfitz

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:27 AM

Please find a way to import caws from previous games. I know it's hard, but man I'm tired of remaking my CAWs every year



#18 EJ!

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:52 AM

More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!
 
Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic. 


There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

#19 Aqfitz

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 05:15 AM

 

More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!
 
Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic. 


There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

 

 

Introduce a mechanic where Heel aligned characters can talk to the ref and be like "Hey go get that fan who jumped the barrier". Or have a button combination that brings out a rival wrestler of your opponent that distracts the opponent / ref



#20 Charlotte Cracker

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:33 PM

 

More lowblows as well, for AE and RA fans!
 
Would also love to see the blood system be more realistic. 


There should be consequences for low blows in regular matches.

 

Not sure if it is still in, but in some previous game you would actually get dqed if you did too many "unfair" moves in a normal match