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Poll: Government Shutdown (21 member(s) have cast votes)

What will come out of the shutdown?

  1. Republicans get what they want (2 votes [9.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  2. Democrats Get what they want (1 votes [4.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  3. Both sides get something out of it (9 votes [42.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

  4. Neither side gets anything (9 votes [42.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

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#3741 aono55

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:31 PM


She shouldn't have sex because of the risk of getting pregnant?

I thought today, in the 21. century that it's been established that people have sex not only to reproduce? Or maybe I'm living in a fantasy woeld *shrug*

Maybe work on better sex education and educate on the importance of contraception?

 
I have no problems with your last sentence, that education should probably come from the home too.
 
There are plenty of people who do just fine on this forum without having sex. And jokes aside (insert..."that must include you" reply), maybe I was brought up different but I love how not having sex "in the 21st century" seems like some crazy idea. As if a person can't function without having it...or you know, do it themselves.
 
People here have told me how A.) How horrible it would be for a woman to have a child she's not ready for and B.) How awful/terrible an abortion can be for a woman and its not something she wants. I offer a 100% guarantee she'll never have to experience either and that's bad?

I wasn't planinh on joking at all, but you made that remark for some reason...

And now you are just trolling with that question.

I'm fine with people having no sex at all, it's their choice. I find asexual people really interesting actually.

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...

Edited by aono55, 23 May 2019 - 02:36 PM.


#3742 King RyderFan

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:32 PM

wait what?

She shouldn't have sex because of the risk of getting pregnant?

I thought today, in the 21. century that it's been established that people have sex not only to reproduce? Or maybe I'm living in a fantasy woeld *shrug*

Maybe work on better sex education and educate on the importance of contraception?

@KingRyderFan

why do you always in every issue, out of nowhere have do the "but what about men" schtik. that's why I called you out on it before (that time, I read that BS long post, but for a while didn't have time to respond, after that I thought it was too late anyway). that's what I've been saying about takong up space and derailing the issue. and of course there's a place and time for that...


Firstly, let me say I agree with the first half of your post. We need better sex education, and everyone should have the right to contraception.

Now, onto your question, it is because I feel that both men and women have their own issues in society. However, it seems that women's issues are focused on more than men's. For instance, if a woman is a victim of domestic abuse there are plenty of shelters and support she can go to, but if a male is a victim, he is SOL. As for that long post? It was about an issue I brought up on my own. Let's look at the post that started it all:

Instead if gun debate part 5,247,743,577, how about we change the topic to something fresh?

https://www.al.com/p...ccusations.html

Honestly, this is a step in the right direction. Only thing I am worried about is true victims of rape having their cases thrown out due to lack of evidence and being charged.


No deflecting there, until you and M3J came along with your "but what about real rapes?" stuff, and you say there is a time and a place for it? Well considering that we can discuss gun and abortion laws in this thread, I think its only fair that we can discuss rape laws here, seeing as it has ties to the latter.

#3743 nWo_Kevin

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:11 PM

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?



#3744 TheShape_1978

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:14 PM

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

Because that would encompass personal responsibility.  The left wants us to remain kids forever and let the parents (government) take care of all of their problems, until the government says no.



#3745 aono55

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:34 PM

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

How it isn't?

 

Try giving some arguments for a change to your claims like that. A lot of times you and The_Shape sound like Steven Crowder. And despite people thinking that he knows how to debate... he doesn't. 

You always say some bs that sounds right by your logic and belief, and expect others to prove you wrong, without actually wanting to maybe change your mind actually...

 

Like, seriously? Because if you don't understand the problem, then you, just don't understand it... so I'd rather believe that the problem is not beyond your comprehension, rather that you are trolling. 

 

You can practice whatever belief system you want, or procreate how ever you want, if you want.

But everybody should have that choice, also as a woman should have a choice if she wants conceive a child or not.

And in 2019, believe it or not, there are ways to have sex with a male and not have a child. 

The thing is men don't have that option now, do they? We can have sex all we want we will never have to give birth to a child. Nobody can make us do that. 

So yeah, I find it either dissrespectful to the women, or that you are oblivious to the problem.  

 

Or also... if you just said that... just because... then you are again trolling, or just... saying shit for the sake of it. 


 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

Because that would encompass personal responsibility.  The left wants us to remain kids forever and let the parents (government) take care of all of their problems, until the government says no.

 

 

What the *Censored* man?

 

It's very responsible to have sex and not conceive a child if you don't want to.

 

The *Censored* are you saying? What left now?

 

Again, you obviously completely reversed the situation. The conservatives, right wing politicians, and the goverment wants to BAN CHOICE. 

 

It's really irresponsible to give birth to a child if you don't want it, or can't raise it properly. 



#3746 TheShape_1978

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:34 PM

 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

How it isn't?

 

Try giving some arguments for a change to your claims like that. A lot of times you and The_Shape sound like Steven Crowder. And despite people thinking that he knows how to debate... he doesn't. 

You always say some bs that sounds right by your logic and belief, and expect others to prove you wrong, without actually wanting to maybe change your mind actually...

 

Like, seriously? Because if you don't understand the problem, then you, just don't understand it... so I'd rather believe that the problem is not beyond your comprehension, rather that you are trolling. 

 

You can practice whatever belief system you want, or procreate how ever you want, if you want.

But everybody should have that choice, also as a woman should have a choice if she wants conceive a child or not.

And in 2019, believe it or not, there are ways to have sex with a male and not have a child. 

The thing is men don't have that option now, do they? We can have sex all we want we will never have to give birth to a child. Nobody can make us do that. 

So yeah, I find it either dissrespectful to the women, or that you are oblivious to the problem.  

 

Or also... if you just said that... just because... then you are again trolling, or just... saying shit for the sake of it. 

 

 

I don't know if you just haven't read the past five or so pages (guesstimating), but I have laid out plenty of arguments.  Perhaps you should follow your own advice.



#3747 aono55

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:39 PM

Nah dude, I did. I said "a lot of times".

 

I can give you some posts or pages, sure.

 

Work on better comprehension. 

 

Or wait... that last post I just responded to?

 

 



#3748 TheShape_1978

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:43 PM

Nah dude, I did. I said "a lot of times".

 

I can give you some posts or pages, sure.

 

Work on better comprehension. 

 

Or wait... that last post I just responded to?

 

 

 

Reread the first sentence of the bolded part that I highlighted for you.  Then go back five or six pages with all of the arguments I presented.  



#3749 nWo_Kevin

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

Try giving some arguments for a change to your claims like that.

 

You always say some bs that sounds right by your logic and belief, and expect others to prove you wrong, without actually wanting to maybe change your mind actually...

 

And in 2019, believe it or not, there are ways to have sex with a male and not have a child. 

The thing is men don't have that option now, do they? We can have sex all we want we will never have to give birth to a child. Nobody can make us do that. 

So yeah, I find it either dissrespectful to the women, or that you are oblivious to the problem.  
 


I think my argument was very clear...don't have sex if you can't handle all the outcomes that might come with it. Own up to the responsibilities that come with sex.  I still don't get why you are so shocked by this idea.  This is very common sense.

 

Trust me, as one of the few conservatives on here, I'm constantly having to defend myself. I'm constantly having the post links to back up my views by someone like Gen. I'm pretty sure that's not an issue with me. 

 

Correct, but as M3J just said on the last page "You are aware protection isn't 100% effective?" 

 

And the same thing goes to men. If you don't want a child...don't have sex with women. Don't use them as one night stands. Have a real relationship with them. Learn who they are, what their beliefs are, what they stand for in regards to children and abortion. Once you know those things then take your relationship to the next level.

 

Personally I find my position of not having sex until you are both ready and can handle the risks that might come with it together to be more respectful to women. But to each their own. 



#3750 aono55

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

 

Nah dude, I did. I said "a lot of times".

 

I can give you some posts or pages, sure.

 

Work on better comprehension. 

 

Or wait... that last post I just responded to?

 

 

 

Reread the first sentence of the bolded part that I highlighted for you.  Then go back five or six pages with all of the arguments I presented.  

 

 

The first sentence is directly responding to Kevin



#3751 TheShape_1978

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 04:03 PM

 

 

Nah dude, I did. I said "a lot of times".

 

I can give you some posts or pages, sure.

 

Work on better comprehension. 

 

Or wait... that last post I just responded to?

 

 

 

Reread the first sentence of the bolded part that I highlighted for you.  Then go back five or six pages with all of the arguments I presented.  

 

 

The first sentence is directly responding to Kevin

 

 

Good.

 

Step #2:  Read the second and third sentence in the bold part.


 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

How it isn't?

 

Try giving some arguments for a change to your claims like that. A lot of times you and The_Shape sound like Steven Crowder. And despite people thinking that he knows how to debate... he doesn't. 

You always say some bs that sounds right by your logic and belief, and expect others to prove you wrong, without actually wanting to maybe change your mind actually...

 

Like, seriously? Because if you don't understand the problem, then you, just don't understand it... so I'd rather believe that the problem is not beyond your comprehension, rather that you are trolling. 

 

You can practice whatever belief system you want, or procreate how ever you want, if you want.

But everybody should have that choice, also as a woman should have a choice if she wants conceive a child or not.

And in 2019, believe it or not, there are ways to have sex with a male and not have a child. 

The thing is men don't have that option now, do they? We can have sex all we want we will never have to give birth to a child. Nobody can make us do that. 

So yeah, I find it either dissrespectful to the women, or that you are oblivious to the problem.  

 

Or also... if you just said that... just because... then you are again trolling, or just... saying shit for the sake of it. 


 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

Because that would encompass personal responsibility.  The left wants us to remain kids forever and let the parents (government) take care of all of their problems, until the government says no.

 

 

What the *Censored* man?

 

It's very responsible to have sex and not conceive a child if you don't want to.

 

The *Censored* are you saying? What left now?

 

Again, you obviously completely reversed the situation. The conservatives, right wing politicians, and the goverment wants to BAN CHOICE. 

 

It's really irresponsible to give birth to a child if you don't want it, or can't raise it properly. 

 

 

It's more irresponsible to kill it.



#3752 aono55

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 04:14 PM

 

 

 

Good.

 

Step #2:  Read the second and third sentence in the bold part.

 

 

 

What the *Censored* man?

 

It's very responsible to have sex and not conceive a child if you don't want to.

 

The *Censored* are you saying? What left now?

 

Again, you obviously completely reversed the situation. The conservatives, right wing politicians, and the goverment wants to BAN CHOICE. 

 

It's really irresponsible to give birth to a child if you don't want it, or can't raise it properly. 

 

 

It's more irresponsible to kill it.

 

 

*Censored* off. Again, I said a a lot of times, you've posted way more than just alst 5 pages, and yes, I've read them. And I'm not debating with you about Stephen *censored*ing Crowder lmao

 

what the f is your point?

 

Bolded: I responded directly to your random post, and you responded with something that wasn't even mentioned. we talked about having sex, conceiveing, giving birth toa child... not killing it.  

 

 

 



#3753 TheShape_1978

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 04:16 PM

 

 

 

 

Good.

 

Step #2:  Read the second and third sentence in the bold part.

 

 

 

What the *Censored* man?

 

It's very responsible to have sex and not conceive a child if you don't want to.

 

The *Censored* are you saying? What left now?

 

Again, you obviously completely reversed the situation. The conservatives, right wing politicians, and the goverment wants to BAN CHOICE. 

 

It's really irresponsible to give birth to a child if you don't want it, or can't raise it properly. 

 

 

It's more irresponsible to kill it.

 

 

*Censored* off. Again, I said a a lot of times, you've posted way more than just alst 5 pages, and yes, I've read them. And I'm not debating with you about Stephen *censored*ing Crowder lmao

 

what the f is your point?

 

Bolded: I responded directly to your random post, and you responded with something that wasn't even mentioned. we talked about having sex, conceiveing, giving birth toa child... not killing it.  

 

 

 

 

 

And the overall topic is abortion.



#3754 WNX

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:48 PM

I completely missed how not having sex to avoid getting pregnant is idiotic. ALL of us have been taught in our health classes that the only 100% surefire way to not get pregnant or impregnate is to abstain. I've disagreed on alot of your point aono, but fighting that one is worthless. No preventative scientific method of birth control is 100%

#3755 Generations

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:52 PM

 

Personally I find my position of not having sex until you are both ready and can handle the risks that might come with it together to be more respectful to women. But to each their own. 

 

 

Flawed logic 101.

 

People do understand the risks that might come with having sex...which is exactly why abortions exist. You're acting like everyone who has an abortion is some brain-dead moron who was running around being careless with a few dozen partners. The truth is, people responsibly have sex with birth control and condoms...and things still happen. Abortions are the final option. Abortions are risk management, and abortions are being responsible for your actions. Conservatives need to stop forcing everyone to be exactly like they are. Freedom of choice is more important than offending your skewed values.

 

And let's not even get started on that line about being "more respectful to women". Having respect for women means understanding that they have flaws and make mistakes. It means allowing them to make decisions that affect them on a personal level. Decisions that are not yours to make.


Edited by Generations, 23 May 2019 - 06:53 PM.


#3756 Bdon

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 09:43 PM

It's not being responsible. In no world would any rational human being say that abortion is responsible. That's absurd. I'm not going to sit here and argue for banning abortions but let's not pretend abortions are just no big deal. And there are arguments to be made about a man's choice in someone killing his kid. So it's not just the woman's choice and it shouldn't be in any normal case

Edited by Bdon, 23 May 2019 - 09:46 PM.


#3757 Generations

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 10:57 PM

Yes, it is responsible to accept that you are not ready to care for another life. Far more responsible than the people who have no business raising children but have a dozen of them.

As for it being "a man's choice"...what is your point? I could agree that maybe it should be discussed between both parties and agreed upon. If anything, I could see wanting stricter guidelines that both parties must sign a waiver...but a total ban does not accomplish that. You're giving no real solutions. As usual.

And literally no one said "abortions are no big deal". NO ONE.

Edited by Generations, 23 May 2019 - 11:15 PM.


#3758 M3J

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:03 AM

 

 

 

Again, mothers are the ones who carry the fetus and puts her life at risk to give birth. the father does nothing other than impregnate her, and he can leave anytime he wants even if they agree to raise the baby together. Plus, the father has a choice at the beginning, like I said. Ask if she wants a family, and if she says no kids or getting pregnant, then he can move on. 

And the mother can leave and never see the kid again after she gives birth. You think being a single father is easy? There is a lot less support for single fathers than single mothers. Both parents have a choice to use protection or not, and that last sentence goes both ways. What if the mom wants a kid while the father doesn't? Barring extreme circumstances like rape or the mother's health being in danger should she go through with the pregnancy, both parents should have to sign off on an abortion.
 
Yes the mother can, and many mothers have, but the main difference, if you don't understand biology, is that SHE'S still the one who gives birth and still the one who can actually die from childbirth, not fathers. 
 
If the mom wants a kid, then she'll have the kid and raise it. Before you ask the obvious question, the obvious answer is that women go through danger during pregnancy and giving birth, while men don't. 
 
And no, both parents shouldn't. Only the pregnant woman does. What if the father decides to leave her a week after she finds out she's pregnant, and she doesn't want the baby anymore? Why should her choice be taken away? 
 

And you don't understand how parenting works. Stop acting as if being a single dad is a walk in the park. Imagine having to raise a child with no support group or anyone to help you out.

You are aware of low the rate of death during childbirth is right? In the US it is 16 deaths for every 100,000 women in labour. If my math is correct that is a 0.016% chance. Extremely low. There is more chance of her dying from being run over.

In that situation you A: track the father down and ask him or B: if he cannot be tracked down for whatever reason his right to sign is rescinded. Though if he has already *censored*ed off after a week he obviously has no interest in the kid anyway. But if the father is actually there and DOES want the kid, then he should have the right to raise it even if the mother doesn't.

 

Where did I ever say being a single dad is easy? But I highly doubt single dads wouldn't have support group or anyone to help them. Feel free to provide stats or proof on that. 

 

It doesn't matter how low the rate is, there's still a chance of pregnancy or birth going wrong, and the mother dying or being permanently impacted by the experience for a kid that she doesn't want. Why should she go through with it?

 

Nah, that's bullshit. Fathers shouldn't have a say whether the women want to get an abortion or not. If we somehow find a way for all the risks of pregnancy and birth be passed on to the fathers though, then sure, he should get a say.  Until then, women's bodies, women's choice. 

 

And as I've said, if he wants to have kids, then he should discuss that with the woman before entering a committed relationship. 

 

 

You are aware protection isn't 100% effective, right? And why shouldn't they have sex just because of conservatives' hatred of women? As I said, if men got pregnant, then guaranteed no republican would be arguing to protect fetuses. 
 
I'm not advocating killing any kid, there's no kid in abortion, just an embryo. Why should the woman risk her life giving birth to a kid that she doesn't want? If you're so worried about an embryo, then go to abortion clinics and pledge to support moms and their babies if they choose to give birth. And hell, support Planned Parenthood and better sex ed to reduce abortion. 
 


The 2nd bold part answers the question to your first bold part.  No?

 

No it does not. Shockingly, humans don't have sex just to reproduce. They probably did over 5 centuries ago, but this isn't the 1500s. 

 

 

wait what?

She shouldn't have sex because of the risk of getting pregnant?

I thought today, in the 21. century that it's been established that people have sex not only to reproduce? Or maybe I'm living in a fantasy woeld *shrug*

Maybe work on better sex education and educate on the importance of contraception?

@KingRyderFan

why do you always in every issue, out of nowhere have do the "but what about men" schtik. that's why I called you out on it before (that time, I read that BS long post, but for a while didn't have time to respond, after that I thought it was too late anyway). that's what I've been saying about takong up space and derailing the issue. and of course there's a place and time for that...


Firstly, let me say I agree with the first half of your post. We need better sex education, and everyone should have the right to contraception.

Now, onto your question, it is because I feel that both men and women have their own issues in society. However, it seems that women's issues are focused on more than men's. For instance, if a woman is a victim of domestic abuse there are plenty of shelters and support she can go to, but if a male is a victim, he is SOL. As for that long post? It was about an issue I brought up on my own. Let's look at the post that started it all:

Instead if gun debate part 5,247,743,577, how about we change the topic to something fresh?

https://www.al.com/p...ccusations.html

Honestly, this is a step in the right direction. Only thing I am worried about is true victims of rape having their cases thrown out due to lack of evidence and being charged.


No deflecting there, until you and M3J came along with your "but what about real rapes?" stuff, and you say there is a time and a place for it? Well considering that we can discuss gun and abortion laws in this thread, I think its only fair that we can discuss rape laws here, seeing as it has ties to the latter.

 

I'm sorry we care about actual victims who rarely see justice and actually have to live with having their bodies violated. If only men like you cared as much about victims of rape as you do false accusations, maybe we'd see tons more guilty people charged and thrown in jail and can do something about false accusations. 

 

Women's issues are more focused on because they go through a lot more. Far more women are abused and are at disadvantage than men. Even if she does somehow find a shelter she can go to, nothing will stop her abusive s/o or ex from finding her and beating her or killing her. A male victim is shit out of luck because of how the society treats male victims, from trying to repress his emotions to not believing he can be a victim. Again, Terry Crews was sexually assaulted and guess what happened? Women supported him while men made fun of him and refused to believe him, saying he should have fought back. It's our own fault we don't have as much help or resources... 

 

Hell, I read how Clark Gable tried to make sure no one caught him reading books because that wasn't seen as masculine. Hell, when women teachers were caught raping underage boys, most men said they were jealous of the boys and how they wished that happened to them, not even caring that it's statutory rape and creepy. I've seen more women defend these boys.

 

There are men who won't even think about the fact that men can get sexually harassed and assaulted too, but when women talk about their experiences, then somehow these men will say "men too!" Then in few hours when a male victim comes forward, they'll attack the victim and refuse to believe him, even shit on him. The problem lies with men and how they act, towards other men that aren't masculine (or act manly in moments) and towards women. 

 

 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

Because that would encompass personal responsibility.  The left wants us to remain kids forever and let the parents (government) take care of all of their problems, until the government says no.

 

Sounds like horseshit, and ironic coming from someone whose party will screw over average citizens to line its own pockets and keep the wealthy wealthy. 

 

Yes, it is responsible to accept that you are not ready to care for another life. Far more responsible than the people who have no business raising children but have a dozen of them.

As for it being "a man's choice"...what is your point? I could agree that maybe it should be discussed between both parties and agreed upon. If anything, I could see wanting stricter guidelines that both parties must sign a waiver...but a total ban does not accomplish that. You're giving no real solutions. As usual.

And literally no one said "abortions are no big deal". NO ONE.

This is 100% true. I don't know why anti-abortionists find this hard to understand, but then again they're most likely terrible parents as well. 



#3759 TheShape_1978

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:10 AM

 

 

 

 

Again, mothers are the ones who carry the fetus and puts her life at risk to give birth. the father does nothing other than impregnate her, and he can leave anytime he wants even if they agree to raise the baby together. Plus, the father has a choice at the beginning, like I said. Ask if she wants a family, and if she says no kids or getting pregnant, then he can move on. 

And the mother can leave and never see the kid again after she gives birth. You think being a single father is easy? There is a lot less support for single fathers than single mothers. Both parents have a choice to use protection or not, and that last sentence goes both ways. What if the mom wants a kid while the father doesn't? Barring extreme circumstances like rape or the mother's health being in danger should she go through with the pregnancy, both parents should have to sign off on an abortion.
 
Yes the mother can, and many mothers have, but the main difference, if you don't understand biology, is that SHE'S still the one who gives birth and still the one who can actually die from childbirth, not fathers. 
 
If the mom wants a kid, then she'll have the kid and raise it. Before you ask the obvious question, the obvious answer is that women go through danger during pregnancy and giving birth, while men don't. 
 
And no, both parents shouldn't. Only the pregnant woman does. What if the father decides to leave her a week after she finds out she's pregnant, and she doesn't want the baby anymore? Why should her choice be taken away? 
 

And you don't understand how parenting works. Stop acting as if being a single dad is a walk in the park. Imagine having to raise a child with no support group or anyone to help you out.

You are aware of low the rate of death during childbirth is right? In the US it is 16 deaths for every 100,000 women in labour. If my math is correct that is a 0.016% chance. Extremely low. There is more chance of her dying from being run over.

In that situation you A: track the father down and ask him or B: if he cannot be tracked down for whatever reason his right to sign is rescinded. Though if he has already *censored*ed off after a week he obviously has no interest in the kid anyway. But if the father is actually there and DOES want the kid, then he should have the right to raise it even if the mother doesn't.

 

Where did I ever say being a single dad is easy? But I highly doubt single dads wouldn't have support group or anyone to help them. Feel free to provide stats or proof on that. 

 

It doesn't matter how low the rate is, there's still a chance of pregnancy or birth going wrong, and the mother dying or being permanently impacted by the experience for a kid that she doesn't want. Why should she go through with it?

 

Nah, that's bullshit. Fathers shouldn't have a say whether the women want to get an abortion or not. If we somehow find a way for all the risks of pregnancy and birth be passed on to the fathers though, then sure, he should get a say.  Until then, women's bodies, women's choice. 

 

And as I've said, if he wants to have kids, then he should discuss that with the woman before entering a committed relationship. 

 

 

You are aware protection isn't 100% effective, right? And why shouldn't they have sex just because of conservatives' hatred of women? As I said, if men got pregnant, then guaranteed no republican would be arguing to protect fetuses. 
 
I'm not advocating killing any kid, there's no kid in abortion, just an embryo. Why should the woman risk her life giving birth to a kid that she doesn't want? If you're so worried about an embryo, then go to abortion clinics and pledge to support moms and their babies if they choose to give birth. And hell, support Planned Parenthood and better sex ed to reduce abortion. 
 


The 2nd bold part answers the question to your first bold part.  No?

 

No it does not. Shockingly, humans don't have sex just to reproduce. They probably did over 5 centuries ago, but this isn't the 1500s. 

 

 

wait what?

She shouldn't have sex because of the risk of getting pregnant?

I thought today, in the 21. century that it's been established that people have sex not only to reproduce? Or maybe I'm living in a fantasy woeld *shrug*

Maybe work on better sex education and educate on the importance of contraception?

@KingRyderFan

why do you always in every issue, out of nowhere have do the "but what about men" schtik. that's why I called you out on it before (that time, I read that BS long post, but for a while didn't have time to respond, after that I thought it was too late anyway). that's what I've been saying about takong up space and derailing the issue. and of course there's a place and time for that...


Firstly, let me say I agree with the first half of your post. We need better sex education, and everyone should have the right to contraception.

Now, onto your question, it is because I feel that both men and women have their own issues in society. However, it seems that women's issues are focused on more than men's. For instance, if a woman is a victim of domestic abuse there are plenty of shelters and support she can go to, but if a male is a victim, he is SOL. As for that long post? It was about an issue I brought up on my own. Let's look at the post that started it all:

Instead if gun debate part 5,247,743,577, how about we change the topic to something fresh?

https://www.al.com/p...ccusations.html

Honestly, this is a step in the right direction. Only thing I am worried about is true victims of rape having their cases thrown out due to lack of evidence and being charged.


No deflecting there, until you and M3J came along with your "but what about real rapes?" stuff, and you say there is a time and a place for it? Well considering that we can discuss gun and abortion laws in this thread, I think its only fair that we can discuss rape laws here, seeing as it has ties to the latter.

 

I'm sorry we care about actual victims who rarely see justice and actually have to live with having their bodies violated. If only men like you cared as much about victims of rape as you do false accusations, maybe we'd see tons more guilty people charged and thrown in jail and can do something about false accusations. 

 

Women's issues are more focused on because they go through a lot more. Far more women are abused and are at disadvantage than men. Even if she does somehow find a shelter she can go to, nothing will stop her abusive s/o or ex from finding her and beating her or killing her. A male victim is shit out of luck because of how the society treats male victims, from trying to repress his emotions to not believing he can be a victim. Again, Terry Crews was sexually assaulted and guess what happened? Women supported him while men made fun of him and refused to believe him, saying he should have fought back. It's our own fault we don't have as much help or resources... 

 

Hell, I read how Clark Gable tried to make sure no one caught him reading books because that wasn't seen as masculine. Hell, when women teachers were caught raping underage boys, most men said they were jealous of the boys and how they wished that happened to them, not even caring that it's statutory rape and creepy. I've seen more women defend these boys.

 

There are men who won't even think about the fact that men can get sexually harassed and assaulted too, but when women talk about their experiences, then somehow these men will say "men too!" Then in few hours when a male victim comes forward, they'll attack the victim and refuse to believe him, even shit on him. The problem lies with men and how they act, towards other men that aren't masculine (or act manly in moments) and towards women. 

 

 

 

But to suggest that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want to get pregnant is either... idiotic, or trolling...


How so?

 

 

Because that would encompass personal responsibility.  The left wants us to remain kids forever and let the parents (government) take care of all of their problems, until the government says no.

 

Sounds like horseshit, and ironic coming from someone whose party will screw over average citizens to line its own pockets and keep the wealthy wealthy. 

 

Yes, it is responsible to accept that you are not ready to care for another life. Far more responsible than the people who have no business raising children but have a dozen of them.

As for it being "a man's choice"...what is your point? I could agree that maybe it should be discussed between both parties and agreed upon. If anything, I could see wanting stricter guidelines that both parties must sign a waiver...but a total ban does not accomplish that. You're giving no real solutions. As usual.

And literally no one said "abortions are no big deal". NO ONE.

This is 100% true. I don't know why anti-abortionists find this hard to understand, but then again they're most likely terrible parents as well. 

 

 

If you are referring to tax cuts, you mean having people keep more of their own money.  Fixed that for you.



#3760 King RyderFan

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 11:09 AM


 

 

 

Again, mothers are the ones who carry the fetus and puts her life at risk to give birth. the father does nothing other than impregnate her, and he can leave anytime he wants even if they agree to raise the baby together. Plus, the father has a choice at the beginning, like I said. Ask if she wants a family, and if she says no kids or getting pregnant, then he can move on. 

And the mother can leave and never see the kid again after she gives birth. You think being a single father is easy? There is a lot less support for single fathers than single mothers. Both parents have a choice to use protection or not, and that last sentence goes both ways. What if the mom wants a kid while the father doesn't? Barring extreme circumstances like rape or the mother's health being in danger should she go through with the pregnancy, both parents should have to sign off on an abortion.
 
Yes the mother can, and many mothers have, but the main difference, if you don't understand biology, is that SHE'S still the one who gives birth and still the one who can actually die from childbirth, not fathers. 
 
If the mom wants a kid, then she'll have the kid and raise it. Before you ask the obvious question, the obvious answer is that women go through danger during pregnancy and giving birth, while men don't. 
 
And no, both parents shouldn't. Only the pregnant woman does. What if the father decides to leave her a week after she finds out she's pregnant, and she doesn't want the baby anymore? Why should her choice be taken away? 
 
And you don't understand how parenting works. Stop acting as if being a single dad is a walk in the park. Imagine having to raise a child with no support group or anyone to help you out.

You are aware of low the rate of death during childbirth is right? In the US it is 16 deaths for every 100,000 women in labour. If my math is correct that is a 0.016% chance. Extremely low. There is more chance of her dying from being run over.

In that situation you A: track the father down and ask him or B: if he cannot be tracked down for whatever reason his right to sign is rescinded. Though if he has already *censored*ed off after a week he obviously has no interest in the kid anyway. But if the father is actually there and DOES want the kid, then he should have the right to raise it even if the mother doesn't.
 
1. Where did I ever say being a single dad is easy? But I highly doubt single dads wouldn't have support group or anyone to help them. Feel free to provide stats or proof on that. 
 
2. It doesn't matter how low the rate is, there's still a chance of pregnancy or birth going wrong, and the mother dying or being permanently impacted by the experience for a kid that she doesn't want. Why should she go through with it?
 
3. Nah, that's bullshit. Fathers shouldn't have a say whether the women want to get an abortion or not. If we somehow find a way for all the risks of pregnancy and birth be passed on to the fathers though, then sure, he should get a say.  Until then, women's bodies, women's choice. 
 
4. And as I've said, if he wants to have kids, then he should discuss that with the woman before entering a committed relationship. 

 

 

wait what?

She shouldn't have sex because of the risk of getting pregnant?

I thought today, in the 21. century that it's been established that people have sex not only to reproduce? Or maybe I'm living in a fantasy woeld *shrug*

Maybe work on better sex education and educate on the importance of contraception?

@KingRyderFan

why do you always in every issue, out of nowhere have do the "but what about men" schtik. that's why I called you out on it before (that time, I read that BS long post, but for a while didn't have time to respond, after that I thought it was too late anyway). that's what I've been saying about takong up space and derailing the issue. and of course there's a place and time for that...

Firstly, let me say I agree with the first half of your post. We need better sex education, and everyone should have the right to contraception.

Now, onto your question, it is because I feel that both men and women have their own issues in society. However, it seems that women's issues are focused on more than men's. For instance, if a woman is a victim of domestic abuse there are plenty of shelters and support she can go to, but if a male is a victim, he is SOL. As for that long post? It was about an issue I brought up on my own. Let's look at the post that started it all:

Instead if gun debate part 5,247,743,577, how about we change the topic to something fresh?

https://www.al.com/p...ccusations.html

Honestly, this is a step in the right direction. Only thing I am worried about is true victims of rape having their cases thrown out due to lack of evidence and being charged.

No deflecting there, until you and M3J came along with your "but what about real rapes?" stuff, and you say there is a time and a place for it? Well considering that we can discuss gun and abortion laws in this thread, I think its only fair that we can discuss rape laws here, seeing as it has ties to the latter.
 
5. I'm sorry we care about actual victims who rarely see justice and actually have to live with having their bodies violated. If only men like you cared as much about victims of rape as you do false accusations, maybe we'd see tons more guilty people charged and thrown in jail and can do something about false accusations. 
 
6. Women's issues are more focused on because they go through a lot more. Far more women are abused and are at disadvantage than men. Even if she does somehow find a shelter she can go to, nothing will stop her abusive s/o or ex from finding her and beating her or killing her. A male victim is shit out of luck because of how the society treats male victims, from trying to repress his emotions to not believing he can be a victim. Again, Terry Crews was sexually assaulted and guess what happened? Women supported him while men made fun of him and refused to believe him, saying he should have fought back. It's our own fault we don't have as much help or resources... 
 
7. Hell, I read how Clark Gable tried to make sure no one caught him reading books because that wasn't seen as masculine. Hell, when women teachers were caught raping underage boys, most men said they were jealous of the boys and how they wished that happened to them, not even caring that it's statutory rape and creepy. I've seen more women defend these boys.
 
8, There are men who won't even think about the fact that men can get sexually harassed and assaulted too, but when women talk about their experiences, then somehow these men will say "men too!" Then in few hours when a male victim comes forward, they'll attack the victim and refuse to believe him, even shit on him. The problem lies with men and how they act, towards other men that aren't masculine (or act manly in moments) and towards women. 

1. You sure do act like it. Just from a quick google lands me generic men's rights stuff for "single father support group" while "single mother support group" actually gives links to proper support groups.

2. Because it's the fathers kid. That rate does matter. You have a higher chance of dying on the road. Should all women be accompanied by a man anytime they wanna drive then? The risk of death during pregnancy is minimal.

3. Yes they should. Father's baby, father's choice.

4. So unplanned pregnancies do not exist then?

5. How many times to I have to say it? You can focus on both at the same time. Want me to put it in fancy Word Art for you? Remember the story about the boy who cried wolf?If you doing something about those crying wolf then those who are actually telling the truth are more likely to be believed. A proper society both believes the innocent and punishes the guilty. Not just one of them.

6. Not really. I like the way you are acting as if males are the only ones capable of being crazed and obsessed stalkers. Obsession and crazy knows no gender.

7. Exactly. Its a societal problem that needs to be addressed.

8. Not really, there is a reason as to why several men's right groups exist. It's so men CAN get the first word in on things like these. There are so many generalisations in that last bit I don't know where to start.