M3J Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Government making sure businesses don't cheat us is a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AONO. Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Government being involved or regulating too much is not a good thing and no, it isn't necessary most of the time. They just make it worse because they want more control and money. Not sure how anyone could be ok with it. As opposed to private companies and corporations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Imperio Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 The government is bad you guys, be careful before they turn you into a sheeple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nWo_Kevin Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Government being involved or regulating too much is not a good thing and no, it isn't necessary most of the time. They just make it worse because they want more control and money. Not sure how anyone could be ok with it. As opposed to private companies and corporations? If I had to pick between the 2 evils? I'm surprised how many people would rather have a Trump administration having control over the internet as opposed to battling with a Time Warner or Verizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Government being involved or regulating too much is not a good thing and no, it isn't necessary most of the time. They just make it worse because they want more control and money. Not sure how anyone could be ok with it. As opposed to private companies and corporations? Not saying corporations aren't bad sometimes but if a person thinks they need government to take care of them or protect them, then they are fools. People can make wise cracks all they want about people not trusting the government but they just look stupid. Pretty much tells me they are willing to be controlled. You seriously want government to control more? Pretty sure history has shown that government control and regulations have put more burdens on people and they don't even lift a finger. They just slide in and take what isn't theirs. And people will still defend them because they have some bullshit idea that all big business is evil. Are they assholes that want your money? Sure. But they don't force you to give them your money with guns to your head. People should be blaming cronyism and socialism for the cost of insurance and medical expenses and instead be promoting the free market. If not then it's on them for defending something they have no clue about. Most don't realize they've been duped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Than Light Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Government being involved or regulating too much is not a good thing and no, it isn't necessary most of the time. They just make it worse because they want more control and money. Not sure how anyone could be ok with it. As opposed to private companies and corporations? Not saying corporations aren't bad sometimes but if a person thinks they need government to take care of them or protect them, then they are fools. People can make wise cracks all they want about people not trusting the government but they just look stupid. Pretty much tells me they are willing to be controlled. You seriously want government to control more? Pretty sure history has shown that government control and regulations have put more burdens on people and they don't even lift a finger. They just slide in and take what isn't theirs. And people will still defend them because they have some bullshit idea that all big business is evil. Are they assholes that want your money? Sure. But they don't force you to give them your money with guns to your head. People should be blaming cronyism and socialism for the cost of insurance and medical expenses and instead be promoting the free market. If not then it's on them for defending something they have no clue about. Most don't realize they've been duped. So it's bad when government gets control and gets greedy, Corporations can be as greedy as they want and stoop to to really bad lows and that's perfectly ok They are as bad as each other. The only difference is where they are standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Government being involved or regulating too much is not a good thing and no, it isn't necessary most of the time. They just make it worse because they want more control and money. Not sure how anyone could be ok with it. As opposed to private companies and corporations? Not saying corporations aren't bad sometimes but if a person thinks they need government to take care of them or protect them, then they are fools. People can make wise cracks all they want about people not trusting the government but they just look stupid. Pretty much tells me they are willing to be controlled. You seriously want government to control more? Pretty sure history has shown that government control and regulations have put more burdens on people and they don't even lift a finger. They just slide in and take what isn't theirs. And people will still defend them because they have some bullshit idea that all big business is evil. Are they assholes that want your money? Sure. But they don't force you to give them your money with guns to your head. People should be blaming cronyism and socialism for the cost of insurance and medical expenses and instead be promoting the free market. If not then it's on them for defending something they have no clue about. Most don't realize they've been duped. So it's bad when government gets control and gets greedy, Corporations can be as greedy as they want and stoop to to really bad lows and that's perfectly ok They are as bad as each other. The only difference is where they are standing. No one is saying it's ok but the government is worse. I don't think I've ever had my cable company force me to give them 40% of my income with a "gun to my head" so to speak. The worse thing they've done is monopolize the area which sucks but it's because of our government laws that they can. If you allow the free market to prosper then you wouldn't have that but you have a bunch of crony assholes protecting themselves and their buddies. If the laws would allow that then that would fix alot of issues. That's as much as the government needs to be involved in. They shouldn't control or decide everything we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AONO. Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Different sides of the same coin there pal. And when shit hits the fan, I'd rather a goverement protect me, rather than a private company. Well, I would very much love to live in an anarchist society where peopel govern themselves with direct democracy. Is it possible right now? nope. Anyway, all that I always read fromy you is a typical bullshit stories about socialism and so on...And I am a "fool" beacuse I want my goverement to make funcioning healthcare programs, since I'm paying taxes. And yeah, I also like the idea... everybody pays the goverement and evrybody gets medical attention whenever you need. I get it that americans have a vast different attitude towards it, and it ain't gonna change soon... I really don't want to get into an argument about goveremnt intervention with you. Because if I hear another "socialism doesn't work" argument..."They shouldn't control or decide everything we do". lol, of course not... But with your kinda attitude when people from fear of "goveremnt intervention" accept control by corporation...it gets waaay way way worse. They may not hold a "gun to your head" so to speak, as you say... but you are gonna buy and do whataver they want you to buy without even realsing maybe. So netheir is goverement totalitarianism fine (as an extreme) and neither is the other side. And honestly if you are want to talk about free market... free market in it's purest form never lived just like comunism. Talking in general now, but people often don't want to look at things that way. And noth sound like cool ideas, but obviously in both sides, something and somewhere took a wrong turn... EDIT: btw you still haven't exaplained why is "goeverement worse"... Both can be corrupt as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FulGore Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 The government is bad you guys, be careful before they turn you into a sheeple It is too late for you. You have already been tainted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Different sides of the same coin there pal. And when shit hits the fan, I'd rather a goverement protect me, rather than a private company. Well, I would very much love to live in an anarchist society where peopel govern themselves with direct democracy. Is it possible right now? nope. Anyway, all that I always read fromy you is a typical bullshit stories about socialism and so on...And I am a "fool" beacuse I want my goverement to make funcioning healthcare programs, since I'm paying taxes. And yeah, I also like the idea... everybody pays the goverement and evrybody gets medical attention whenever you need. I get it that americans have a vast different attitude towards it, and it ain't gonna change soon... I really don't want to get into an argument about goveremnt intervention with you. Because if I hear another "socialism doesn't work" argument... "They shouldn't control or decide everything we do". lol, of course not... But with your kinda attitude when people from fear of "goveremnt intervention" accept control by corporation...it gets waaay way way worse. They may not hold a "gun to your head" so to speak, as you say... but you are gonna buy and do whataver they want you to buy without even realsing maybe. So netheir is goverement totalitarianism fine (as an extreme) and neither is the other side. And honestly if you are want to talk about free market... free market in it's purest form never lived just like comunism. Talking in general now, but people often don't want to look at things that way. And noth sound like cool ideas, but obviously in both sides, something and somewhere took a wrong turn... EDIT: btw you still haven't exaplained why is "goeverement worse"... Both can be corrupt as hell. You're seriously all over the place. What are you getting at? How are you defending socialism after saying you would like to live in an anarchist society? That makes zero sense. "If I hear another Socialism doesn't work argument". What? What are you going to do? Are you going to prove that it works? Good luck. I also didn't say anyone should accept being controlled by corporations. What's funny is you said they are two sides to the same coin, but if they are the same how can you defend the government? Simple answer. You go with the one that will take care of you. It won't be good, but you won't have to do anything. And if you buy whatever big business wants you too without realizing it then that's on you. That's not forcing. The government takes by force. If you don't then they take you to jail, if you don't they kill you. For your money and your property. I don't need to further explain government if you don't won't to grasp it. Look at Venezuela. There's your socialism in work. You are right about the free market not being realized but if anyone thinks full blown communism is something that should then they need to crack open a book. That's lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AONO. Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Ok, I know I was all over the place, but these are things that oyu could write whole essays about, and issuses that keep going all over the place too. And what's whit the "what are you going to do?" I tought you was gonna say Cuba but Venetuela is good enough too. Venezuelas problem was not only "goverment control and socialism lol", the fact that states liek those get sanctions because greater eceonomic powers (read USA) don't agree with their "policies", or great econmic meddling at best. Venezuela has/had major issues, but maybe if other nations haven't tried to undermine them on every single step of the way, thing could have been better? Not perfect, better. Venezuelas qualitty of life improves vastly during the stages of so called "bolivarian revolution", but then came low oil prices imposed by Saudi Arabia mainly. It's a much greater geopolitical system than just: "oh socioalism doesn't work". Venezuela is not the only one who took a hit from low oil prices, nations like Iran, Russia and Ecquador did too... and none of them fit on USA's policy...especially when it comes dowwn to cold war or so calle "post cold war" policies. People also like to use Cuba as an example... well, they did have trade and economic sancions for half a century, so isn't there a possibility that things could have been better for them if they weren't imposed? Norway is one of the countries that has greeater goverement intervention and they are doig great, but they are just peculiar model of mdern "european socialism" or social democracy. And I was saying about how I wish for anarcism or direct democracy but also explicily said how I know that something like that isn't possible right now. But there are models where a society could funcion properly and can work towards something greater in the future... maybe, you never know. I don't see anything wrong with accepting the situation and working in whatever way to produce a better society. You said: "You are right about the free market not being realized but if anyone thinks full blown communism is something that should then they need to crack open a book. That's lunacy. " So while I am trying to keep an open dialouge you just shut it down with strong statemnts for whatever the reason... But hey, it's all lunacy and foolishness. I guess you have the state of mind where one individual is the strongest and should keep to itself. Fine. Good luck. I don't. I believe in working together. That difference is where it all comes down to in this conversation obviously, So we ain't gonna agree. I tried to keep it open. On a side note. "Force" as you put it, comes in a wide range of ways. It all comes down to power, econmic, autocratic, goverement... and much more. And "private companies" have and will an enourmeous power that it will be evean harder to combat. It may not be a totaly relevant question, but here is just a hypothetical one, think of it as you wih. Would it be easier to take down a private company witha private army or a goverement? Or...ok, if you manage to take it down, woulld it be easier to replace a goverment or a private company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 I'd rather have the Trump Administration "control" the internet if it means no bias or bullshit. I know that's impossible given how incompetent Trump and his administration are, but it's an example. Also, I've noticed that a lot of people, especially right wingers, cry about socialism when ideas that help others are suggested. I mean, I'd rather my taxes go to helping people rather than building a dumb wall or seeing most of it spent in defense and warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Yeah the US was already spending more on it's military than Russia, China, and the next 4 or 5 major countries combined so no need to cut services for people just to spend even more on the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Ok, I know I was all over the place, but these are things that oyu could write whole essays about, and issuses that keep going all over the place too. And what's whit the "what are you going to do?" I tought you was gonna say Cuba but Venetuela is good enough too. Venezuelas problem was not only "goverment control and socialism lol", the fact that states liek those get sanctions because greater eceonomic powers (read USA) don't agree with their "policies", or great econmic meddling at best. Venezuela has/had major issues, but maybe if other nations haven't tried to undermine them on every single step of the way, thing could have been better? Not perfect, better. Venezuelas qualitty of life improves vastly during the stages of so called "bolivarian revolution", but then came low oil prices imposed by Saudi Arabia mainly. It's a much greater geopolitical system than just: "oh socioalism doesn't work". Venezuela is not the only one who took a hit from low oil prices, nations like Iran, Russia and Ecquador did too... and none of them fit on USA's policy...especially when it comes dowwn to cold war or so calle "post cold war" policies. People also like to use Cuba as an example... well, they did have trade and economic sancions for half a century, so isn't there a possibility that things could have been better for them if they weren't imposed? Norway is one of the countries that has greeater goverement intervention and they are doig great, but they are just peculiar model of mdern "european socialism" or social democracy. And I was saying about how I wish for anarcism or direct democracy but also explicily said how I know that something like that isn't possible right now. But there are models where a society could funcion properly and can work towards something greater in the future... maybe, you never know. I don't see anything wrong with accepting the situation and working in whatever way to produce a better society. You said: "You are right about the free market not being realized but if anyone thinks full blown communism is something that should then they need to crack open a book. That's lunacy. " So while I am trying to keep an open dialouge you just shut it down with strong statemnts for whatever the reason... But hey, it's all lunacy and foolishness. I guess you have the state of mind where one individual is the strongest and should keep to itself. Fine. Good luck. I don't. I believe in working together. That difference is where it all comes down to in this conversation obviously, So we ain't gonna agree. I tried to keep it open. On a side note. "Force" as you put it, comes in a wide range of ways. It all comes down to power, econmic, autocratic, goverement... and much more. And "private companies" have and will an enourmeous power that it will be evean harder to combat. It may not be a totaly relevant question, but here is just a hypothetical one, think of it as you wih. Would it be easier to take down a private company witha private army or a goverement? Or...ok, if you manage to take it down, woulld it be easier to replace a goverment or a private company? Firstly. Didn't mean that to come off that way. You just didn't finish your thought. You acted like you were gonna make a case for socialism and you didn't. But it came off snarky and I didn't mean it that way. I don't mind keeping an open dialogue but if someone comes in making a case for socialism then I just simply can't. They can think what they want and think I'm wrong and vise versa. If we want to debate that then fine. If not that's fine too. Working together and doing business with one another is what will drive the free market. That's great. But using social programs and redistributing income or giving handouts to a bunch of people doesn't actually fix anything in the long run. Look at welfare. That was supposed to be a short term thing. Now it's bleeds the economy and most don't agree with it. It's abused on a massive level. If that's the case then the individual would be better off. Working together in communities is fine. One body trying to do everything is not. I think government is far more dangerous than a private company. I'd like to know exactly why you're so terrified of them. Do I trust them? No. I don't trust either. But the government has proven far worse. Most things done in the private sector are usually done better than government controlled. Look at roads and parking lots. A private military or a private police force would be far better trained than the idiots we have now. However one would have to look at numbers and resources. The South had better trained men and Generals that all served previously in the federal military during the Civil War. The North just had more resources. So I'd still have to say the federal government would be harder to take down. But it really depends on circumstances. Are you talking us vs. them or the government vs the private sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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