PaperThinWalls Posted August 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Absolutely incredible part last night. There was so much to love... Gordon Cole's dream, more info on the original (and quite creepy) Blue Rose case (Tulpas?!), Jack Rabbit's Palace, Andy in (presumedly) the White Lodge, Naido and the drunk annoying the shit out of Chad, Freddie's strange green glove anecdote, James in the Great Northern basement and finally, Sarah in the bar mauling the trucker's neck! All-round great part that had me on edge the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Things are starting to fall into place and it's so satisfying. I love that Andy was the one to go into the White Lodge. He and Lucy have always been some of my favorite characters in the show. I'm wondering why The Fireman is sending people to the White Lodge and then to Twin Peaks. I'm assuming he's preparing for something big to happen. Is Freddie sent to try to combat whatever is coming? Are we going to see the green glove in use or is it just a nice side thing to possibly expand the lore? One thing I'm wondering about is Linda. We've heard her mentioned a couple times but it's getting towards the end of the series and we still haven't even seen her. I'm wondering if she's possibly a Dougie Jones type of situation, where she's actually a recreation of another character like Laura or something. Only issue with that is that while it doesn't appear that she leaves the house, she would be living in Twin Peaks and people would recognize her. I just don't know why else it would be withheld unless it's not that important after all. Well actually I can, it's just one possible explanation why it might be withheld. Just me brainstorming. I don't think it'll be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted August 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I can imagine it now... In the last part we get this huge GoT style battle. On one side we have Mr. C's team of baddies: Richard, the Woodsmen, Chad, Chantal, Hutch, and the Experiment. On the other side, we have DougieCoop and his team of heroes: Blue Rose squad, Janey-E, Andy, Freddie, Naido, and the Mitchum brothers. And they all clash in this huge epic battle at the top of Blue Pine mountain. As the battle ends, it's looking bad for the good guys. Just when they're about to lose, suddenly... Laura appears! And she saves the day. The End. Funny you mention Linda. When I was watching the Roadhouse scene at the end, I was thinking the woman talking about Billy was her. But nope I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I was thinking a more a 50's greaser type of thing. My gang vs your gang on the old fair grounds. Be there! Then Laura runs in last monute with "You know a rumble ain't a rumble without me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted August 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I like the way you think, sam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIcvTluLb2w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 ^ Oh man, davidlynch.com... Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted August 28, 2017 Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'll post full thoughts later, but Dale's "waking up" was the Big Ed/Norma levels of feel good. You just see all these great friends that Coop has made on his journey as Dougie. While this show is very different from the original series it keeps with the trend of Coop attracting the most pure souls where ever he goes. As soon as the theme started playing I had the biggest, dumbest grin on my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted August 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 ^ You weren't the only one who had a goofy grin! Haha. Cooper's awakening might have been the greatest feel good, crowd pleasing moment in all of Lynch's oeuvre. After months of buildup and anticipation, it was able to satisfy on so many levels. Him finally commanding a room with such conviction and charm was pure bliss. I've never been so gleeful while watching a show! For a moment like this, I pity the first time viewers who will watch the show after its initial run. Instead of waiting months in anticipation like we did, they're going to end up severing the prolonged delay by binge watching the entire season in a few sittings (if that many for some!). I think that's unfortunate because I believe the delay was essential to making this moment so incredibly gratifying and blissful. But alas... This part wasn't all feel good moments, though... Audrey's drama is so tragic. The Audrey Dance while at first a pleasant moment of nostalgia and return to form, quickly turned awkward and disquieting. When they suddenly cut to her in the bright, white room looking at herself in the mirror, I gasped. Looks like she's indeed going through an internal battle with herself and we've seen of her up until this moment was an imagined reality. Although, the sad confirmation of her being raped by Mr. C is very much real. On that note, the scene that ended with their son Richard being toasted was one of the top scary scenes in the season so far. What a thrilling way to begin this excellent episode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I am speechless. I'm soooo pleased with the last two hours. Heading into these parts I expected the plot to be relatively resolved -- perhaps ending on a light, hopeful note. But what we got was totally unexpected and confounding and nothing like I'd imagined. I love being this puzzled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Part 17 sort of felt like the ending I was expecting and that might be why it was my least favorite episode of the series. This season was a slowburn and had that been the finale I would have felt that it all felt a little rushed. I think it easily had the most silly stuff in it. Frank Truman's hat wobble absolutely destroyed me. And I just kept imaging showing the fight scene between Freddie and the floating orb of Bob to somebody who had never watched the show and what looks they would have given me. It felt like the ending people were expecting, so in contrast with Episode 18 it shows why what people want wouldn't have worked as an ending. Luckily Part 18 is the ending, and I think that it's a much better way to end the series, albeit more tragic (?). I'm going to be thinking about this for the rest of my life probably. Ultimately I believe that mystery being alive is essential to Twin Peaks. I never want all the answers about this world. Cleary Frost and Lynch feel the same way, they never even wanted to reveal Laura's killer and instead build a world based on that framework. Part of why the original series has endured for so long is because it inspires discussion and deep reading. If season 3 had ended with Bob dying, DoppleCoop dying, and Coop and Diane living in Twin Peaks happily ever after, what would we be talking about for the next 25 years? Whatever it would be, I don't think it would be as rewarding as the discussions we have leaving part 18. Sure we have Frost's book coming up, which I'm sure will not expand on the ending of 18, but after that I think there's no more Twin Peaks. Never say never I guess, but it's just a gut feeling I have. What was your reading on the end? I'll get into mine a bit later I'm just tired of typing right now. I've read all sorts of interpretations, some being very different but equally as plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Whoa! Part 17 was great! Remember, the confrontation at the sheriff's station was only the first 30 mins, the rest of the part was Cooper transported back to the night of Laura's death and preventing it. That's when we got all that beautiful FWWM and pilot material. Speaking of, I totally teared up when Peter Martell showed up on the screen. Jack Nance met so much to Lynch, so I'm glad he was able to finally pay tribute to his great friend. It was absolutely beautiful. I agree, though, if the first 30 mins of part 17 was the ending, I would have been disappointed. But since it wasn't... and because we got all the stuff that occurred afterwards, I didn't have any issue with it. In fact, its cartoonish absurdity may have heighten the quality of the rest of the 90 mins for me. My interpretation: In short, Cooper ultimately failed... again. He thought he had it all figured out. He thought by undoing the wrongs done to Laura she could be saved and she can live a happy life. But he was wrong. Even though his compassion is admirable and his intent is well meaning, he keeps making these miscalculations. That's why I think he may be Lynch's most tragic hero. He thinks he fully understands what he's up against, but he doesn't. Looking forward to hearing your interpretation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Here's my initial interpretation. Basically the same thing. For starters, Sarah seemed obviously tied to Judy, who I presume is the mother or the creature that birthed the Bob orb and the frogmoth and so on. The mother of all evil basically. Whether she's been with Sarah since the original series I don't know. Likely when they were making the original series they probably didn't have Judy in mind much at all and most of this background of Judy came during the creation of this show, so it might just be one of those things where you have to accept that this is a tv show. But anyway, Coop is feeling high after Freddie defeats Bob and Dopplecoop is sent to spend eternity in the red room. He's going to finish what Garland and Jeffries couldn't do and defeat Judy through erasing Laura's murder from the past, thus having Laura defeat Judy, the mother of all evil. Of course this manages to only create an alternate timeline. The underlying message is that you can't make the world perfect through good intentions. It's better to just do what you can (Coop in the original series and as Dougie made people's lives better on a small scale), but don't shoot too high. And on top of that, you shouldn't defeat all evil. Life is duality, good and evil coexisting. "The only way to stop the world from going to hell is not trying to prevent it" and so on. Thus ends Twin Peaks on a tragic end, with Coop failing to learn from the mistakes he made last time. There's other things as well. "We live inside a dream". "Who's the dreamer?" I think the dreamer is Judy. I believe they were placed in some sort of pocked dimension created by Judy. I'm not sure when the exact crossover happens. It think it's a more gradual process that an in and out situation. When Coop and Diane cross the into it, the transition begins. It shifts from day to night. While they're having sex they are presented as both their Dopplegangers/Tulpas and their normal selves at once. I was actually nervous of the plot twist being that it's Dopplecoop and he was raping Diane again based on his cold facial expression in that scene. But notice the music. Classic oldies selection from Lynch combined with a chilling, more ambient sound we often associate with Bob or Dopplecoop playing over each other. Later when he's in the diner he takes out the dickheads harassing the waitress in a classic Coop move, but from then on he's almost full Dopplecoop in the way he talks and carries himself. When Coop wakes up as Richard the transition has taken full effect. The world he wakes up in has no semblance of his old world. That being said, I've heard a similar read on the events, but contrary in the connotation of the events. And I feel like they're perfectly legitimate and I find myself sort of drawn to them, although it might just be because it is within my personality type to try to take the best out of a situation. But basically some people interpret Coop as ultimately succeeding when he says "What year is it?" Originally I interpreted this as a line of desperation from Coop, out of character to the point where the audience understands that what is happening on screen isn't good at all. I still think that's more likely the purpose of the line. Yet after he says this something triggers in Laura. It all rushes back to her like it did to Dougie when he heard Gordon Cole's name on TV. It's either that line or the recycled audio from the pilot that plays of Sarah calling for Laura. Either way Laura screams and the lights in the house black out. And in a very much Grant Morrison Killing Joke read on the ending, some people feel like that when those lights black out that's Laura defeating Judy, which Coop was able to trigger either by asking what year it was or bringing her to the house where Sarah's voice somehow broke though (perhaps because Sarah is tied to Judy and was able to break free momentarily). Maybe Judy was tied to the Palmer residence as a whole and not just Sarah. We did hear some creepy shit going on in that house so it's entirely plausible to me. It's a take on this that, to me, doesn't really have to jump through hoops to make sense. I imagine to come there will be plenty of debates between team tragic ending vs team happy ending. I think it's without a doubt framed as tragic, but it's certainly within the creative force behind this show's nature to be subversive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 ^ Parts 17 and 18 spoilers: I like how the Sarah scene can be read in multiple ways. In one way it could be her stabbing Laura's photo because she is genuinely upset that Laura had left her and ran away (her action is a bit warped, but I can understand her devastation and feelings of betrayal). In another way, it could be Judy (who's inhibiting/possessing Sarah) stabbing the photo because Cooper has altered the course of events. Similar ambiguity can be seen in the Cooper/Richard scenes like you pointed out. I wasn't sure if it was Good Dale we were seeing or if it was Mr. C (I had the same nervous, queasy feeling during the sex scene). To me it seemed like it was a combination of the two. His Boy Scout enthusiasm was completely gone, but he still conveyed more emotions than his doppelgänger (most notably in the last scene where he was utterly befuddled). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBad Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 You guys have covered a lot with this show and have only just discovered this thread and as a fan I've got to say that The Return was a gift from Lynch. The ending although not immediately scary, when you think of the Return and original as a whole. The whole story of Cooper is probably the most bleak arc in Lynch's filmography. But I will leave this excellent theory with you guys. https://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 You guys have covered a lot with this show and have only just discovered this thread and as a fan I've got to say that The Return was a gift from Lynch. The ending although not immediately scary, when you think of the Return and original as a whole. The whole story of Cooper is probably the most bleak arc in Lynch's filmography. But I will leave this excellent theory with you guys. https://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ Ooooh, I read that! That's a pretty good one. It's an interesting take and certainly has me rethinking the ending. lol I like that it connects the Fireman clues with what transpired. It's funny. For a guy who is known for making dark and disturbing works of art, Lynch for the most part ends his films pretty happily. The only exceptions I can think of are Lost Highway and maybe now TPTR. All his other films (including Eraserhead and Mulholland Dr.) conclude on a hopeful, upbeat note for the protagonist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Yeah I'm pretty sold on the Return's end being bittersweet. Sure, all the good memories of the original series have been erased, but there's just no other interpretation I can gather other than Laura defeated Judy at the very end. I'll probably do my mandatory Lynch rewatch when the Blu Ray comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 "Dear Twitter Friends, The stars turn and a time presents itself. December 5, 2017. Blu-ray and DVD!" https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH/status/908382492280840192 Awesome cover art; can't wait to see what the extras are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I can't wait. That cover art is brilliant. Now to find the Blu Ray with the missing pieces from Fire Walk with Me for a reasonable price online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Shit. You don't have it? That sucks... AMZ UK has it for £19.99 / ~$26 (plus shipping). It's Region free and it has all 10 discs (unlike the stripped down US edition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Oh shit nice. Why did the UK get more discs than the US version? What's on those discs? I almost bought the US version at local store. Glad I didn't now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Originally there was one version that was released worldwide that had unique packaging which housed all the discs in sleeves. Then a few years later they released a new edition that replaced the special packaging with a regular plastic case. This edition, for whatever reason, was not a single wordwide release but rather a regional one that saw the Region A release (US/Canada) only having 9 discs and the Region B release (UK/Europe) retaining all 10 discs. Why is the US getting ripped off? Who knows... The 10th disc, however, is totally worth seeking out. It contains Between Two Worlds (David Lynch's interview with the Palmers and the actors who play them) and a doc on the making-of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 RIP to Harry Dean Stanton. One of the highlights this season. Feel free to move this to a Harry Dean Stanton thread if there ends up being one, but love this short documentary on him. For the love of god check out this channel if you haven't, it's easily the best movie channel on YouTube and the amount of love this guy shows towards his subjects really shows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuHDS5281uw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperThinWalls Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Heartbreaking. Another one lost. What a legendary career he had, though; such tremendous talent. His last scene in Twin Peaks is even more poignant and beautiful now: And thanks for the video recommendation. I'll check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Had to share these here Combining one of my favorite bands with one of my favorite shows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpKhjc2p3_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iHt1UQK4e4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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