sam the d00d Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 It's almost as if there isn't only one kind of mental illness. Almost like there's different severities to mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 So what kind of mental illness did Roof and Alexandre have? I mean, I'd definitely agree with serial killers having mental illnesses (wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer a sociopath?), but people who kill others tend to have motives. A lot of Islamic terrorists don't just kill people because they're *censored*ed up, they kill mainly because they think it serves a better purpose for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 The fact that you're not understanding this is kind of hilarious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Let me repeat my question: so what kind of mental illness did Roof and Alexandre have? The fact that you'd rather call any and every murderer as having mental issues is quite disturbing and misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I actually have to agree with M3J here. At least I see what he's saying. This guy seemed to have a motive...it's not like he woke up and was like "I'm going to murder people today, yay!" He had a reason and he carried that reason out. If it was a random action for no reason I could understand you going "Well he had to be insane!"...using common sense as you said Generations leads me to believe this guy had a motive and he followed through. Hell in that case, you can consider Donald Trump himself insane for doing what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hell in that case, you can consider Donald Trump himself insane for doing what he's doing. I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hell in that case, you can consider Donald Trump himself insane for doing what he's doing. I do. I don't. I consider him dumb and racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Than Light Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I consider him dumb, racist, and having a dangerously short fuse. More on topic, I kind of see Gens point. Having murderous intent isn't very sane. Dylan Roof, doing what he did isn't sane. Not going to pretend to be a mental health expert, but there are definitely screws loose in addition to being racist. And just because you have a disorder/illness doesnt automatically mean you don't have control over your actions. And Alexander? Is it still too soon to know anything? But I don't know. Still evil no matter what and nothing justifies those actions Edit: Autocorrect ftl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 And a lot of times, it seems like "mental illness" is some sort of justification along with possibly making people with mental illnesses actually look bad, whether unintended or intended. Besides, all mental illness blaming does is get people to talk about it for few days, say how we need to stop ignoring it and help those people, and then go back to ignoring them until a white person goes on a shooting spree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't know if people are thinking I'm saying that being mentally unstable somehow justifies the acts of terrorism or something...I think that's probably this bullshit society that exists now. All I'm saying is that murdering people in cold blood is an obvious sign of being "not right" in the head. That's the only thing I can call it. Sane, grounded, level-headed, "normal" people simply do not do these kinds of things. I believe racism itself is a mental illness. I'm honestly frustrated in people are thinking that mental illness is some form of justification or something...because I never said that. And anyone who can't differentiate between your average mental illness that plagues good, decent people...and stuff like this...I think those people must be missing what I'm saying as well. But it's still mental illness. My point is...it's a "thinking" problem...not a religious problem. Someone was talking about the religious aspect of it...and that is more of an excuse to me. We need to just say that these people are sick...because they are...and I'm not saying that they can be treated. Once you do something as heinous as a terrorist attack, you're beyond treatment. But they are certainly not sane or normal in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ! Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I see both points and this is all just more reason to raise mental health awareness. While he most likely planned this massacre, that train of thought and planning doesn't appear in the brain of someone who is mentally healthy, at the same time, when we say he had mental issues, while it's true, it further stigmatizes mental health issues. Like when people say they struggle mental health, the average person m likely thinks that person is capable of the worst and then they're fearful of that person even though they may or may not have a reason to. I hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I see both points and this is all just more reason to raise mental health awareness. While he most likely planned this massacre, that train of thought and planning doesn't appear in the brain of someone who is mentally healthy, at the same time, when we say he had mental issues, while it's true, it further stigmatizes mental health issues. Like when people say they struggle mental health, the average person m likely thinks that person is capable of the worst and then they're fearful of that person even though they may or may not have a reason to. I hope that made sense. It makes sense. And I agree. There's so many different kinds of illness and disabilities though so I don't think most would automatically think the worst of them. I don't think it stigmatizes much but it might for some. Anyway some sort of sickness involved for someone to not just think that way but to plan and follow through is a serious issue. Even in cases that the person is just full of hate and is ignorant enought to commit acts can't be operating on the same plane upstairs than the majority of people. But I'm not justifying anything or labeling all to be certifiably mental. I see both points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't know if people are thinking I'm saying that being mentally unstable somehow justifies the acts of terrorism or something...I think that's probably this bullshit society that exists now. All I'm saying is that murdering people in cold blood is an obvious sign of being "not right" in the head. That's the only thing I can call it. Sane, grounded, level-headed, "normal" people simply do not do these kinds of things. I believe racism itself is a mental illness. I'm honestly frustrated in people are thinking that mental illness is some form of justification or something...because I never said that. And anyone who can't differentiate between your average mental illness that plagues good, decent people...and stuff like this...I think those people must be missing what I'm saying as well. But it's still mental illness. My point is...it's a "thinking" problem...not a religious problem. Someone was talking about the religious aspect of it...and that is more of an excuse to me. We need to just say that these people are sick...because they are...and I'm not saying that they can be treated. Once you do something as heinous as a terrorist attack, you're beyond treatment. But they are certainly not sane or normal in the head. If the suspect is thought to be a Muslim, he'll automatically be accused of terrorism. If a suspect is thought to be black, he's thought to be a thug or someone with a horrible past. If a suspect is thought to be white, he gets the mental illness defense and humanized. "Oh hey look, this killer killed not because he's a *censored*ed up person, but because he had mental illness that made him like this!" Murdering people with some planning does show there might not be mental illness in play here. All it takes is a warped view or twisted way of thinking, like "Muslims don't deserve to live when they're all terrorists!" or "cops are killing black people so they need to die!" To that person and anyone who thinks similarly, he is justified in killing. To people like us, it's a horrible thing to do, but that doesn't mean we should blame it on mental illness right off the bat. Racism is not a mental illness, it's something that's usually taught at a young age. Unlike most mental illnesses most of the time, racist views can be changed. A thinking problem, yeah. But religion kinda plays a part of it as he specifically targeted Muslims due to bigotry and inspiration from Trump. It's a point of view thing whether they're sane, but they're definitely abnormal and *censored*ed up for wanting to end lives. A black guy who shot two cops in NYC, I believe, had a mental illness, and it's been implied that if he was treated properly, he wouldn't have murdered the cops. With someone like Alexandre, all you can do is lock him up or monitor him to make sure he does nothing bad, as he had motivation to harm Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Alright...now you're really talking shit. When did being white become a factor in the mental illness thing? I think that anyone who commits a terrorist act or a murder is mentally unwell...never uttered a word about race. How did you ever turn this into a race thing? Maybe you're mentally unwell yourself... Also, you seem to be confusing mental illness with mental disability or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdon Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Well that's what he does best Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Alright...now you're really talking shit. When did being white become a factor in the mental illness thing? I think that anyone who commits a terrorist act or a murder is mentally unwell...never uttered a word about race. How did you ever turn this into a race thing? Maybe you're mentally unwell yourself... Also, you seem to be confusing mental illness with mental disability or something... Stop getting heated and saying things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Alright...now you're really talking shit. When did being white become a factor in the mental illness thing? I think that anyone who commits a terrorist act or a murder is mentally unwell...never uttered a word about race. How did you ever turn this into a race thing? Maybe you're mentally unwell yourself... Also, you seem to be confusing mental illness with mental disability or something... Stop getting heated and saying things like this. I'm not heated...and it wasn't even an insult. Someone who ties race to mental illness somehow, seems mentally ill to me...how is that a logical connection to make? No one thinks like that. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Alright...now you're really talking shit. When did being white become a factor in the mental illness thing? I think that anyone who commits a terrorist act or a murder is mentally unwell...never uttered a word about race. How did you ever turn this into a race thing? Maybe you're mentally unwell yourself... Also, you seem to be confusing mental illness with mental disability or something... Stop getting heated and saying things like this. I'm not heated...and it wasn't even an insult. Someone who ties race to mental illness somehow, seems mentally ill to me...how is that a logical connection to make? No one thinks like that. It's ridiculous. Just don't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam the d00d Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't think having a motive and being mentally ill are mutually exclusive. There's no doubt he was a shitty racist person, but if it's severe enough to drive him to the point of murdering strangers, there's probably not something right in his head. I don't think he's be in a position to plead insanity or anything, but I think most people who see murder as a viable option are somewhat mentally ill. I get if it's in retribution or self defense, but most other cases I can't even imagine how I person justifies it to themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernez Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't think having a motive and being mentally ill are mutually exclusive. There's no doubt he was a shitty racist person, but if it's severe enough to drive him to the point of murdering strangers, there's probably not something right in his head. I don't think he's be in a position to plead insanity or anything, but I think most people who see murder as a viable option are somewhat mentally ill. I get if it's in retribution or self defense, but most other cases I can't even imagine how I person justifies it to themself. Well I agree with you on the not being mutually exclusive, but as I said...I think the same thing when I think about people like Donald Trump, I don't know how a person justifies it to themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FulGore Posted February 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Legit question, people that want to join the military to kill, would that fall under mental illness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Legit question, people that want to join the military to kill, would that fall under mental illness? Absolutely. You don't join the military 'to kill' you join the military to protect from killing. I definitely think there are a lot of people who are sick in the military. Type of people who you see throwing puppies off cliffs in Iraq and laughing about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNX Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't think he's be in a position to plead insanity or anything, but I think most people who see murder as a viable option are somewhat mentally ill. I get if it's in retribution or self defense, but most other cases I can't even imagine how I person justifies it to themself. Therein lies the problem. I'm sure I've mentioned it before but wrong and right are subjective. An illness of one's mind is simply dictated by he who judges the sickness. "Most" people, you say. There are people who could never kill in any scenario. This means they could look down to a person that would kill in self-defense, someone who claims they had no other choice, and tell them "yes, you did". You justify retribution and self-defense, both resulting in taking the life from others. In the eyes of the pacifist, you are by consensus "mentally ill" when, in all actuality, you are at its core "mentality indifferent". We are taught that killing people is wrong. That isn't common sense. Nobody pops out of the womb like "Waaah, killing is bad, mkay?" He who knows naught of the concept of "murder" cannot judge the morality of it. Not to say this guy wasn't taught that murder is wrong, but if he feels that getting rid of a few people proves beneficial, who can declare from the action alone that he is mentally ill? It's simply a conflict of opinion, simply on a higher scale. One man condemns violence, the next justifies the punching of a Neo Nazi. That man condemns murder, the next justifies a mass shooting. What is innocence? In your eyes it's a mosque filled with people peacefully praying to their deity. In his eyes, it's people who have to deal with poisonous demonized religions. 6 lives in the grand scheme of purging the world from the filth of the Muslim community. Was there a victory? Depends on who you ask. Conflict of opinions, higher scale. It's not something to be cured but a truth in your eyes you wish for others to see.. None of us are perfect, so what is the blueprint for a human being of a completely healthy mind? Mentally indifferent... Or perhaps he's *censored*ing batshit crazy, WHO KNOWS? Hell, I'M prolly batshit crazy. No one can say for certain ::edit:: I didn't want to make this edit directly in my post to cover up an obvious mistake so I'll leave it as is. The term "mentally indifferent" was used incorrectly as, from what I've heard of this man, that would be the complete opposite of what the shooter is, though I don't have a term to replace it with. Something along the lines of "morally deviating" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AONO. Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Gen by your understanding of "insane", mentally unwell or unstable... probably about of 90% of worlds population is like that. I may be exxagerating, but it's just to ilustrate a point. But calling someone just "insane" is really just dumbing down of all possible problems with that man, and the reasons of why and how did he actually have the means to do it. If you understand those things, then you can at least think of solving the problem. Sad that people need to get murdered in cold blood so people could understand some things. Saddest things this will probably also play like people are mentioning. "Bah he was just a crazy individual". It's all fine. Yet every action has a consequence. That simple thing, people don't seem to grasp. That isn't thaught as much as it should be tought appereantly. Reckless opinons, just for the sake of opinons. Yet, there is obiously a huge amount of people in every country tolerating unscrupolous behavior of their goverments. Man, I'm sound like a teen again.Sorry, but this gets me rilled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generations Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 First off...I never said everyone was "insane"...I said mentally ill. And yeah...I do think a lot of the population is mentally ill. I think it's a runaway train that people refuse to acknowledge. Insanity is a type of mental illness. I don't think the majority of the population is insane...I think the majority of the population is mentally ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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