El Dandy Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 http://kotaku.com/wwe-video-game-finishers-used-to-look-better-1724454659 This is so true. You used to be able to feel the impact and hear the roar of the crowd a lot more vividly in previous WWE games. Hell, finishers looked and felt better on the N64 with WWF No Mercy. Compare the Rock Bottom, Sweet Chin Music and Stunner finishers in 2K15 to No Mercy, they all look and feel better in a game that was released 15 years ago! Here's a video of all of the finishers from No Mercy if you want to draw comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I don't need to watch the video to agree. Most moves from SvR 11 and up don't seem to hurt much when compared to games from 15 years ago. Hell, WCW/nWo World Tour which was released two decades ago had better looking finishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dandy Posted August 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 The selling of the move is one of the thing that really stands out as being poorly executed in the games today. That spinning twirl after performing a chin music is terrible, has anyone ever sold it that way? Or all of the overselling and flipping around to the stunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROSS-Out Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 There's no denying that their oversell fetish has been a detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 There's no denying that their oversell fetish has been a detriment. 15 was better. Off the top of my head I can't think of any that were too offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROSS-Out Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 There's no denying that their oversell fetish has been a detriment. 15 was better. Off the top of my head I can't think of any that were too offensive. Ehhh... a couple of the DLC moves has some annoying slight-oversell. The fireman carry overhead kick for instance sells a little bit to much. With a move like that, the optimum sell would for them to just slump over the moment they get hit, not swing there arms back and fall over like they're doing a slow-mo death in an action movie. I liked Bryan Williams but hopefully him being gone will lead to 2K having the balls to say to their mocappers "no, that didn't look good. please try it again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgeofSandow Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 The selling of the move is one of the thing that really stands out as being poorly executed in the games today. That spinning twirl after performing a chin music is terrible, has anyone ever sold it that way? Or all of the overselling and flipping around to the stunner. Think it may have been Orton. The over sells ARE actual sells, just the worst possible. Like, Roddy Piper's punch combo was taken from a Survivor Series match where he did the move to Mr Perfect who always over sells. Decs seem to prefer over sells though they look shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack. Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Prefer finishers now over No Mercy's. No Mercy's looked so cheesy. Now HCTP, I miss the wrestler specific finishers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 There's no denying that their oversell fetish has been a detriment. 15 was better. Off the top of my head I can't think of any that were too offensive. Ehhh... a couple of the DLC moves has some annoying slight-oversell. The fireman carry overhead kick for instance sells a little bit to much. With a move like that, the optimum sell would for them to just slump over the moment they get hit, not swing there arms back and fall over like they're doing a slow-mo death in an action movie. I liked Bryan Williams but hopefully him being gone will lead to 2K having the balls to say to their mocappers "no, that didn't look good. please try it again." Wow. That would have barely registered as an oversell to me... I get arms flailing not looking good, particularly because there are many superstars who wouldn't do that but that one didn't strike me as an offender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROSS-Out Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 There's no denying that their oversell fetish has been a detriment. 15 was better. Off the top of my head I can't think of any that were too offensive. Ehhh... a couple of the DLC moves has some annoying slight-oversell. The fireman carry overhead kick for instance sells a little bit to much. With a move like that, the optimum sell would for them to just slump over the moment they get hit, not swing there arms back and fall over like they're doing a slow-mo death in an action movie. I liked Bryan Williams but hopefully him being gone will lead to 2K having the balls to say to their mocappers "no, that didn't look good. please try it again." Wow. That would have barely registered as an oversell to me... I get arms flailing not looking good, particularly because there are many superstars who wouldn't do that but that one didn't strike me as an offender I was just using it as an example off the top of my head, there are most definitely worse offenders. To be fair, it's not just oversells that can be a bit of a problem. Occasionally the mocappers throw in some kind of mannerism that just makes the animation look goofy. To go back to the move pack, a good example of this was the fireman carry neckbreaker on the knee. The move itself looked good, no bad oversell... but the person performing the move stomps their feet as if they're walking through a field of mud. It's kind of funny to watch. And then as others have mentioned, there's the older moves that desperately, desperately need a new animation that doesn't mess it up. I mean, we only have two good superkicks with no animation issues... and they're both strong strikes, unusable as finishers. (this is one of the reasons i advocate allowing us to use strong strikes as finishers). The corner SCM looks hilariously bad, and they NEVER seem to get the timing right with it (so the opponent will get up right when Michaels starts stomping, and they just end up sitting there staring at shawn "tune up". In reality, they should be timed so that they get up and turn around right as they get kicked.). Then you've got moves that just don't look right. The rock bottom for instance. It doesn't have an oversell or anything, but it sure as hell doesn't look like any rock bottom that the rock has done. It looks incredibly anticlimactic. Of course, on the flipside, as you said, they did make great strides in 2K15. Nakamura's boma Ya looks great, my only complaint about it being incredibly miniscule (that they get up then fall back down to their knee, rather than just rising from the ground to their knee). The also replaced a couple animations without actually marking them as new for some reason. (the fireman carry jawbreaker for instance, has a new animation but isn't marked as such. Which is odd since I think its one of the best new animations in the game). What I'm getting at is that going forward, if 2K and the mocappers feel the need to add some kind of unecessary sell or action in the animations, there needs to be a good reason for it. The mocappers need to be told "don't try and make it look unique to you or anything, just do the move in a standard fashion. No oversell, no unique acted markers." This way the animation doesn't look bad, AND is usable by more than one character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMpunk867 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I've been saying this for the last 15 years too lol... How can they not take note of what no mercy did right? Character specific strikes (punches/kicks) from those games made the game 10000x better. Today only 5-7 guys have character specific strikes and it shows as everyone else has the same genetic strikes. Very bland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamming Nooblet Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I was gonna add a gif comparing the HCTP and 2K14 Goldberg spears, but that would be pointless. Everyone knows the HCTP version is better. I'm still annoyed at the fact that the dumb Tyler Reks inverted DVD is still called the Burning Hammer in the games while the real Burning Hammer is in the game being called Reverse Death Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I've been saying this for the last 15 years too lol... How can they not take note of what no mercy did right? Character specific strikes (punches/kicks) from those games made the game 10000x better. Today only 5-7 guys have character specific strikes and it shows as everyone else has the same genetic strikes. Very bland! Yeah I loved how Stone Colds punches were way different than other guys, same for the Rock and HHH, they even had one for Bret Hart. Now everyone does the same punching motion. That and different stances; luchadors would bounce on their feet, super heavyweights walked different than middleweights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yohansigned Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Because back in the day they did all the animation. Today they do mocap, and to have accurate people punch, they need The Rock to do the mocap. Some old animations looks bad when you use it on the newer game. For example F5 from HCTP looks bad in new game. The engine is just different, I believe is more difficult than we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMpunk867 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 It's also a lot cheaper to mo cap, animation takes hours and hours of work. Saves them money by mo capping so I can't disagree... Still with 2ks money they can do some animation. Check out NBA 2k, they have almost everyone's shooting form down and I doubt they had every player come in to mo cap their form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastkody Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 hand animated moves always look infinitely better than having Colt cabana mo-cap everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNFNS Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 They have like 7 or 8 mo cappers, NXT wrestlers not included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iVivaLaAdam Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I prefer the finishers now compared to No Mercy and HCTP, Nobody does 16 filps and lands on there head after every move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I've been saying this for the last 15 years too lol... How can they not take note of what no mercy did right? Character specific strikes (punches/kicks) from those games made the game 10000x better. Today only 5-7 guys have character specific strikes and it shows as everyone else has the same genetic strikes. Very bland! Yeah I loved how Stone Colds punches were way different than other guys, same for the Rock and HHH, they even had one for Bret Hart. Now everyone does the same punching motion. That and different stances; luchadors would bounce on their feet, super heavyweights walked different than middleweights. Yeah, and the superstar specific "ready" position. RVD used to bounce on his toes, Kofi would do the Caporiera (spelling) moves etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnC Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Does anyone remember either SvR 2010 or 2011 the Irish whip sell? You Irish whipped someone into the corner and they ran toward it with their arms flailing...it looked AWFUL! Who okayed that? Thankfully it only lasted for one game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack. Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Lol I remember that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedmaniac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Animated moves may cost more to do, but once you have them down you don't need to mo-cap new ones every year. AKI first did the stone cold stunner move in WM2000 and it still looks way better than any stunner in the last 6 or 7 years with all that mo-capping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMpunk867 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Animated moves may cost more to do, but once you have them down you don't need to mo-cap new ones every year. AKI first did the stone cold stunner move in WM2000 and it still looks way better than any stunner in the last 6 or 7 years with all that mo-capping. Exactly, one year to get it right or keep on mo capping a new one every year? I have faith that 2k will also have some kind of animators... I hope :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROSS-Out Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The thing with hand animation is that if it's done right, it looks amazing... but if the animator is even slightly off, it looks completely, and totally, terrible. Just look at the animations in five star wrestling. Say what you want about that game, but the animations themselves are horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastkody Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Animated moves may cost more to do, but once you have them down you don't need to mo-cap new ones every year. AKI first did the stone cold stunner move in WM2000 and it still looks way better than any stunner in the last 6 or 7 years with all that mo-capping. im sure cost factored in....but i imagine the main factor into switching to mo-cap was time. They can probably mo-cap 5x the amount of stuff compared to hand animating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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