XavMashes Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Maybe this should have been in the Divas discussion thread, but, to the risk of sounding selfish, I believe my article, if it can be called that, deserves its own thread. But if I'm wrong just tell me and I'll post this in the thread itself. Remeber: You are entitled to your own opinion and I couldn't be happier to have your own two cents in my thread. WWE's Divas division. A subject of controversy that affects (or not) the WWE, its fans, and even the videogames! As we can see in this very forum how 50% of active users are unhappy with being unable to create divas in the next gen WWE 2K15 and the other 50% couldn't care less about divas in WWE games. So what's wrong with this forgotten and disgraceful division in the WWE? You can't blame one thing, but a lot of different reasons. I don't even know where to start. And no, the division won't get better if they switch the Divas Championship to the Women's Championship, without the proper handling, it would be the same thing. Fans are the most important thing in this business. Fans can make or break superstars and Roman Reigns is one of the biggest examples. So how the fan reaction plays in this ground? Most of the time a lot of divas are unappreciated because the average fan still goes nostalgia mode and says something like "Oh, [insert popular diva of the moment] sucks! Bring back Lita and Trish Stratus! Like if u agree". This is not a problem with the divas but with the new WWE Superstars in general. Most people tend to but all divas in the same bag just because of a very few (Like Eva Marie, Cameron, Kelly Kelly, I could go on and on), and divas like Naomi who -while not being the greatest technical wrestler of all time- is a very athletic and solid worker. Yet, because of her past with Tons of Funk/Funkadactyls or because of being in Total Divas, some fans will put her in the "She's a Barbie doll and will never be good, bring back the old divas" group. And maybe it's only the nostalgia talking because some people ask for Ashley Massaro, of Torrie Wilson, or the bra and panties match and that ain't wrestling. Those are the ghosts of your puberty talking. Other examples of nostalgia is comparing every damn diva to some diva in the past who were, even in the smallest way, similar. Like, comparing AJ to Mickie James. Skipping and being called crazy doesn't make you Mickie James. AJ Lee's crazy chick persona was of a teenage girl who couldn't choose who to ask out (And this comes from an AJ mark, but honestly, her crazy chick gimmick wasn't my favorite at all). Mickie James' psycho persona was of an obssesed fan who was, literally, crazy. Then we have the Maryse-Summer Rae comparisons, or Becky Lynch-Lita comparisons (I can't even explain to myself why some people make that comparison) and the list goes on and on and on. Some divas like Paige and Emma can be so overhyped that later on, they don't live to their hype. I've seen some people stating that Paige vs Emma was the next Lita vs Trish. This is because NXT has a whole different modus operandi. They have taping sessions for a few one-hour shows. Creative can't control you, they'll guide you, they'll advice you, they'll make a few tweaks and change your indy name. But you will have to show what you can do by yourself. The Main Roster is where you are just one member of the cast. They'll tell you what to say, what to wear, what is your name. And you'll travel eight out of seven days a week for live events, shows, and such. But I'm getting out of the topic. This is happenning with Charlotte and Sasha Banks. Yes, they're awesome in the developmental territory. Sasha Banks is one of my favorites to be honest. But what's gonna happen when they get called up? Maybe, I WISH NOT, but maybe they'll become irrelevant, like Paige and Emma were just a few months ago. So the casual fan, the one who doesn't watch NXT, won't give a damn for them. Or in some cases even those who were diehard fans of them could betray them and say that they're boring (as unlikely as it sounds, I've seen some people doing this). So, it's only the fans' fault? Hell no! And here is where creative/Vince has the fault. This is when they actually try to rip-off Mickie James. Alicia Fox's long awaited time in the spotlight is the example. It seems like the only formula to turn a diva heel is to make her psycho/crazy. Alicia and Paige suffered this last year. They fianlly did something different with Nikki Bella but that didn't play very well. I'd like to say Alicia's gimmick is of a bipolar girl. But it's not. It's lack of character development. And Brie Bella is suffering this. The Bellas had the same f'n gimmick for years until they finally reinvent themselves when Total Divas was launched on E! Then, last year, they finally break them up. Brie Bella has this Brie Mode thing going on and the crowd cheers for her. So what do they do? They go back to them being bond sisters without any explanation at all (I guess the explanation is/will be on Total Divas) and I don't even know if Brie's a heel or a face. They also wasted or didn't realize of the talent and potential they had in Gail Kim and many other divas, but that's a chronic illness within WWE in general and since the beginning of times to forever. Another thing is relying too much on AJ Lee. I'm a big AJ fan as I said before and many times here in CAWs.ws. But honestly, they overpushed her the wrong way and now people hate her for that. April can handle the mic and that's something you can't say about many divas. She also has very good in ring skills which were limited in recent times. She picked up the divas division when 98% of the people didn't give a damn for the Divas. Back when Kelly Kelly/Eve vs Nikki/Brie was the main rivalry. Eve, Kaitlyn and Layla did a very good job with the divas title, but AJ vs Kaitlyn was what got more people looking at the butterfly belt and what was going around it. The bad thing was that the company started to rely on her WAY too much, so nobody else got the chance to even AJ, and you can't make a good division out of only one talent. AJ suffered the "You die a hero of you live long enough to see yourself become the villain" and most people got tired of her. So they expected Paige to be the breath of fresh air AJ was in 2013. But Paige wasn't even close to be a breath of fresh air, as her reign was underwhelming and the WWE went back to AJ as champion... Twice (Reportedly this was a conflict between Trips and Vinny Mac). Anyway, AJ produces merchandising like Paige does, and that is a very good reason of why the two of them were pushed to the top (Also Paige being on TD). Now we have Nikki as champion again, and Brie-Natalya-Paige are the top contenders. IMO, I can't see any of them doing great things right now due to bad creative management/lack of interest. Bringing back the Ruthless Aggression divas/championship won't slve much. TL;DR: This is a 50/50 deal. WWE has to get rid of recycled storylines, and put more interest on the main roster divas division, give them time and sucj. And we as fans have to understand the WWE calendar (And expect that maybe a day or two super wrestling icon Paige won't give the best performance), accept new divas as who they are not who they look like, and when they give them time (Like a Naomi and Alicia Fox segment), respect their effort to act. And even appreciate what we have now, even with non-wrestler divas, like Lana, Renee and Devin. Because what happens when WWE sees that we reject Naomi, or Paige, or even male superstars like Reigns? They go back to rely on the past superstars, or on AJ, or on Cena, because they think that new superstars will never make the cut. Thank you for taking the time to read this and your opinion will be greatly welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepia Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 When most of the Diva's can hold my attention for more than 3 minutes I'll be good. The NXT Diva's are great for sure and i like to watch Paige, but Diva's in general have never been that interestin to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPC Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 It'll only get better when Dunn and McMahon are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Vercetti Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 More women wrestlers from the indy scene,less models for eye candy attention. There are some indy women wrestlers that are beautiful enough yet can kick some ass while doing it if it's looks that whomever is over the division is looking for. I feel like if they want models then at least make sure that they can do work in the ring or manage than just pose, showing off the T&A and embarrassing themselves when they know that they can and possibly want to actually do something more than that. Pisses me off that they rushed Eva Marie and a few other past divas to the roster without letting them properly train more and such. Always bring that up whenever discussing the state of the divas and the fact that Cameron wanted to go down to NXT but was threatened that if she did,that she'll pretty much lose her spot. Whether it was apart of the Total Divas script or not,it was pretty messed up to put her in a "it's either this or that" situation. Only can hope that over time that somebody for the love of god will actually do something for the sake of the diva division and the little or high number of fans that they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Problem with the division is sexism that holds the divas back and prevents them from outshining the men in whatever way. Change the decision makers' views of women wrestling, and the division should flourish again as it did during RA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssaultDriver720 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't have a problem with them hiring models but hired models with a athletic background(ex Alexa Bliss). Its seems like they are doing a better job at training them at the Developmental center then at FCW, DSW and OVW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St★rstruck Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I feel like hiring female wrestlers from the indies won't help if the overall booking is complete and utter shit. This is just a general problem going in WWE right now. Not a whole lot goes into developing and making us care for the Divas; whether it's their character/gimmick, the amount of time they get to perform in the ring or how often they get to cut a promo (and not just some lame backstage segment, either. Like, an in-ring promo or something). And if they do attempt to actually utilize Divas, they don't do it properly (for instance; the Bella Twins storyline this past Summer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Vercetti Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Forgot to include better booking in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willows Way Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Pure and simple the women don't get enough time. The only Divas feud that ever got a shitload of time in recent memory was the god awful Bella's feud. Paige vs AJ got some time but it was incredibly half assed with no real progression or direction. 2-3 minute matches also don't help this division one bit. Even the short matches in NXT accomplish more than a Raw diva match does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazR Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Girls don't get enough time (except in Superstars and Main Event where the casual WWE audience doesn't watch because RAW is WWE to them) and girls don't get good booking. Sadly, these are two things we as fans can't control and so, we will never see a change in the Divas Division until something in the inside changes for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonshaad1230 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Get rid of Michael Hayes and everything should be fine with the girls. Also, Awesome Kong should've been mentioned in this topic (her real shoot regarding Jim Ross saying she'd never be a wrestler due to her being too fat.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy. Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't know how anyone can actually watch a all woman's wrestling federation like Shimmer or whatever. Yeah the wrestling is guaranteed to be best in the world, but it still feels weird lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssaultDriver720 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't know how anyone can actually watch a all woman's wrestling federation like Shimmer or whatever. Yeah the wrestling is guaranteed to be best in the world, but it still feels weird lol Nah its not that hard to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy. Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Never said hard to watch, just I don't know how some can put in an a hour a week to watching an exclusive women's wrestling show. Don't wanna go off topic, just wanted to state that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Never said hard to watch, just I don't know how some can put in an a hour a week to watching an exclusive women's wrestling show. Don't wanna go off topic, just wanted to state that. makes no sense at all, since people watch men exclusive wrestling all the time. o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy. Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The problem with the divas division is the same as the rest of the roster: Shit booking. They need to get rid of dipshits like Kevin Dunn having much of the say on the division and actually devote proper time and attention to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classiq. Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks for writing this article. I'm a huge supporter of women's wrestling (and women in general) so I can align with you on much of what you say. The last paragraph specifically. More fans need to show respect for these people who give all of themselves for our praise. I feel there will be many women who are on the main roster currently and who are yet to come who will garner such admiration. But the problem is the booking and lack there of. You allude to in your article that the Creative team just don't seem to have faith in their female talent because they don't draw and thus need to exploit them for a profit (which sounds harsh but that's pretty much what it is). I've said it many times before that what made the Attitude Era so successful -- and what's making NXT so succuessful now -- is that everyone on the TV matters. You have an investment in all of the characters you see regardless of gender. Lita and Trish were on the same level as Rock and Austin. Charlotte and Bayley on the same level as Adrian Neville and Sami Zayn. That is what the main roster is missing: equality. Putting the same amount of effort into a woman like Naomi -- who has shined in recent stories with The Miz and now Natalya -- as you would with someone like Dean Ambrose. With the amount of writers that are a part of the Creative team this is very difficult to have and if a whole other topic but the female talent in general need to be taken more seriously. From AJ Lee and the Bella Twins to Devin and JoJo. I can tell you that the matches I'm looking forward to the most for WWE's next 2 special events (NXT Rival and Fast Lane) are the women's matches (Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch, as well as Nikki Bella vs. Paige). I just get so excited to see the ladies perform on these special events because they work so hard on their stories and their craft and don't get rewarded for it always. Here's hoping the fans will appreciate their sacrifices and take them for who they are regardless of gender. And that is they they are pro wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future™ Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 the problem with the WWE in general, is the lack of depth on the quality of the roster. We had the likes of Edge, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane, Triple H, Steve Austin, The Rock, HBK, Angle, Lita, Trish, Chyna, Victoria, Tori and other big name performers sharing the locker room all at the same time. And not to mention better bookings that makes current era looks shit compare to the previous ones. Dont get me wrong, we do have tons of talented guys in the locker room. But the name isnt big enough and its not their fault, its the writes and the poor bookings. Now we only focusing on John *censored*ing Cena, not too long from now the main focus is gonna be on Roman Reigns and Roman *censored*ing Reigns only. as well as the Divas division who relies only on AJ and Paige for the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3J Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't think quality is that much of a problem. We have Paige, Natalya, Naomi, the Bellas, and I forgot few others. The problem is that they're not in good storylines, and their matches don't stand out. Where we had Trish vs. Victoria in a hardcore match, these women are being pinned by a double-knee gutbuster or a roll-up after distraction in almost every match. Quality can't help if your wrestlers are in weird storylines, have dumb characters (Psycho Alicia, anyone?), and/or are forced to end in a shitty way and can't do much during a match. Give the women more freedom and ability to go all out, and see how they do. I don't think anyone in NXT has that kind of limitation on them, which is why we consistently see better matches from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macho BANG Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 To me the problems with the Diva's division is they're booked story line wise as B movie high school girls, and they the matches are poor. Whilst in NXT they're actually booked like the everyone else is and the wrestle like actual wrestlers. TNA got that and before they ruined it the Knockout's were pulling higher ratings than anyone else on the show and that included Kurt Angle and Sting, and luckily Triple H seems to understand that as well. Also there's no consistency with who's face and who's heel at times, that really bugs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyriqz ✪ Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Let me shorten that: Kevin Dunn and double standards in hiring. Also, to an extent, disrespect to the lower card regions. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E#37 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Freedom is the *censored*ing problem, they don't have any. These divas are so restricted it's not even funny. The officials won't allow them to go out there in the ring and tear the house down because they might surpass the men. Thanks to that we are stuck for years now with... well what ever the hell it is that we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyriqz ✪ Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Never said hard to watch, just I don't know how some can put in an a hour a week to watching an exclusive women's wrestling show. Don't wanna go off topic, just wanted to state that. How do you watch shows with purely male talent on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightning116 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Wait, you can't make women in 2K15? The HELL? o_O Thank God I didn't purchase that game. Yeesh, talk about retarded. Why the Diva's division is terrible? Kevin Dunn. Enough said. Get his ass outta here. And the other reason in my opinion, pushing the wrong women or giving all of the airtime in the world to women that the fans don't give two s**ts. Sorry, E#37, but I personally see nothing likeable about the Bellas. Hell, I think I do a much better job giving the Bellas a personality on the old Story Designer in the WWE games than their own corporate writers. I mean, years ago, the Bellas were doing s**t. They left, came back, dated Daniel Bryan and John Cena? Here they are stinking up the joint because of that and Total Divas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyriqz ✪ Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Wait, you can't make women in 2K15? The HELL? o_O Thank God I didn't purchase that game. Yeesh, talk about retarded. Why the Diva's division is terrible? Kevin Dunn. Enough said. Get his ass outta here. And the other reason in my opinion, pushing the wrong women or giving all of the airtime in the world to women that the fans don't give two s**ts. Sorry, E#37, but I personally see nothing likeable about the Bellas. Hell, I think I do a much better job giving the Bellas a personality on the old Story Designer in the WWE games. I mean, years ago, the Bellas were doing s**t. They left, came back, dated Daniel Bryan and John Cena? Here they are stinking up the joint because of Total Divas. I guess it is true. It ain't who you know but who you blow. I replied in that other thread but I actually remembered something else too. See, I agree, I don't think the Bellas deserve to be the absolute focal point of the divas, with all the segments and Total Divas itself being centered around them. I think ever since they stopped being smiling faces who did decent matches (think of prior to Wrestlemania 30) they have become completely unbearable, and I used to be a fan of them. Buuuuut, like I said in the other thread, they dated before any of them got their pushes. Nikki and Cena dated before the Bellas left and Brie and Bryan dated even longer before that. And also, Vince and some other guys backstage have always been high on the Bellas. You can look up old reports, it's true. Whether their push is deserved or not is another quesion (one where I would agree with you in that they don't.) but yeah, not necessarily their relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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