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Improving the A.I. for WWE '14 and Beyond

A.I. artificial intelligence WWE Yukes 2k Visual Concepts WWE 14 WWE 2k14 improvements

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#1 MrBrightside1189

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

With Visual Concepts now stepping into the lead of WWE Games, it's time that we see some changes that have been asked for, but never really delivered upon, at least in a significant way. While we're definitely bound to see some fresh ideas in terms of both gameplay and modes, the fundamentals behind the game need some improvement, or even completely rebuilt.

 

The biggest of these is the game's artificial intelligence. With the game being built on the old Toukon Retsuden engine from '94-'95, with alterations and additions made over the years, the A.I. seems to be limited by the technology of days passed.Over the past 10 years, we've seen many sports and even action-adventure titles implement A.I. that actually thinks progressively and learns your weak points.

 

Professional wrestling itself is about telling a story with your bodies, and with the WWE games now falling into the simulation realm, the one thing that needs to be implemented is the AI attacking specific body parts, the same way Alberto Del Rio works an opponents arm throughout the match in order to weaken it for his Armbar finisher. We currently have a limb-targeting system in the game that would be of great use to something like this, not to mention that each part of the body can be damaged to different degrees.

 

One way to easily make the A.I. stand out among the rest of the series goes back to the progressive thinking. Let's say that we're approaching the finish of a match and the A.I. needs to do a series of moves in order to set you up for his finisher, which we'll use again use Del Rio's Armbar as an example. You're on the top rope, and the opponent needs to get you down... 4 steps:

 

1.) Cause you to break your balance, strattling the top rope.

2.) Top rope arm drag (which is in the game)

3.) Wake-up taunt

4.) Armbar finisher.

 

As you can see, the focus of that sequence was not only getting you down for the finish, but also working your arm further. This plays into the whole "psychology" of wrestling. Such a small detail that would make the experience of matches seem much deeper than just having your opponent doing random moves, and being amazed when the the A.I. actually does something like that by accident.

 

The same thing applies to weapons. A few years ago, Cory Ledesma spoke about how the A.I. was improved in that area, and that if our opponent picked up a chair, they intended to use it. The problem was that it didn't exactly work out that way. Opponents would often pick up the chair and get in the ring, as if they intended to use it, but then dropping the chair. Again, this is problem with the progressive thinking of the A.I.

 

The artificial intelligence should always be looking for ways to work body parts, and get you into position for big moves, whether it be a Superplex, or an RKO. If your back is weak, and your opponent has a backbreaker or any other move(s) that cause a fair amount of back damage, they should be progressively thinking of ways to set you up for those. If you're fighting outside, and your back is weak, they should be throwing you into the ring apron, suplexing, and/or using the barricades to weaken your back further.

 

And that brings me to another point: separating the back, chest, and mid-section/abdomen in the damage meters. This allows further strategy from not only the players, but the A.I.

 

The standards have long since been raised, and I think it's about time that WWE Games played catch up. I'm not sure what the capabilities of the Toukon Retsuden engine are, but this is one thing that certainly needs to be looked into.



#2 Brandon-X

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:04 PM

Long story short. AI at the moment is ass and we need it to not be ass anymore.

 

 

I agree completely Neomic.



#3 Username Censored

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:28 PM

Visual concepts aren't responsible for the A.I.

They handle the graphics and presentation.

#4 RnC

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

The A.I is abysmal, it constantly whips you to the outside and/or dismantles the announce table and/or attempts to do the barricade/table finisher

 

The A.I is the dumbest it's been for years



#5 Sacrilegium

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:21 PM

The AI will always suck as long as it's "the AI," as in "one single AI."  Every character needs distinct custom AI and we need to be able to edit it to our liking. 



#6 Brandon-X

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

The AI will always suck as long as it's "the AI," as in "one single AI."  Every character needs distinct custom AI and we need to be able to edit it to our liking. 

 

Oh my brother, TESTIFY.

 

preach it. The devs will need to realize that they cannot make up with an AI that is equatable to an ass and ham sandwich by adding "features". Especially when said features screw around even more with the AI.



#7 Massac12E

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:53 AM

(This is a list of ideas for sliders taken from a previous thread. I mixed some of God of Lightning's ideas with those of my own. This is the result.) 
 
Custom A.I. Sliders
 
* All sliders go from 0 to 100. 0 meaning never, 100 meaning nonstop. Therefore, you would never want to give someone a complete 0 or 100 unless you wanted to completely restrict someone from performing an action (e.g. Giving Mark Henry a 0 in Climb Turnbuckle so he never goes up top) or make someone perform an action constantly (e.g. Give Mirko CroCop a 100 in Strong Strike so he constantly throws his roundhouse kicks). Everything by default is set to 50. 
 
* Each individual group would have its own slider. Any changes made to this slider would cause every slider labelled under said group to reflect the group slider. 
 
* Any animation can be made a Favorite. Strikes, Grapples, Tag Team Grapples, Taunts, Weapons, Weapon Grapples, and even OMG Moments. If an animation is set as a favorite, the A.I. will hold a preferance to these animations over animations that are not favorited. Also, wrestlers who do not have a favorite weapon will be given a steel chair as their default favorite weapon.
 
+ General
 - Climb Turnbuckle
 - Dirty Tactics [remove the turnbuckle pad, ripping crowd signs, hold submissions until the 5 count]
 - Exploder TB Attacks [Yes or No]
 - OMG Moments
 - Pin Usage
 - Reversals
 - Springboard Attacks
 - Submissions
 - Weapon Usage
 
+ Standing 
 - Grapple Usage [0 meaning never performs standing grapples, 100 meaning constant standing grapples]
 - Strike Usage [0 meaning never strikes, 100 meaning constantly goes for strike combo]
 - Strong Strikes
 
+ Corner 
 + Corner Standing 
  - Corner Strikes
  - Corner Running Strikes
  - Corner Front Grapples
  - Corner Back Grapples
 + Top Rope Attacks
  - TR Strikes
  - TR Running Strikes
  - TR Front Grapples
  - TR Back Grapples
 + Sitting
  - SIT Strikes
  - SIT Running Strikes
  - SIT Grapples
 + Tree of Woe
  - TOW Strikes
  - TOW Running Strikes
  - TOW Grapples
 
+ Diving Attacks
 - DA to Standing Opponent
 - DA to Grounded Opponent
 - Standing DA to Opponent Outside the Ring
 - Running DA to Opponent Outside the Ring
 
+ Apron
 - APN Strikes
 - APN Running Strike to Inside
 - APN Running Strike to Outside
 - APN Grapples
 
+ Running
 - Run Usage
 - RUN Strikes
 - RUN Grapples
 
+ Ground
 - GND Standing Strikes
 - GND Running Strikes
 - GND Grapples
 
+ Irish Whip
 - IW Usage
 - IW Rebound Strikes
 - IW Rebound Grapples
 
+ Ropes
 - Grapple on Ropes
 - Grapple on 2nd Rope
 
+ Pull Back Attacks
 - PB Strike Usage
 - PB Grapple Usage
 
+ Taunts
 - Standing Taunt Usage
 - Corner Taunt Usage
 - Top Rope Taunt Usage
 - Wake Up Taunt Usage
 
+ Blood
 - Bleedability [0 for never bleeds, 100 for starts the match bleeding]
 


#8 Taurus

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

I agree with all of the above but I feel the following should also be added:

Running Downed Strikes
Specific weapon usage(e.g. Triple H should be the only guy using a Sledgehammer)

#9 D'Evil

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

We need to get some Fire Pro level shit in this, albeit more simplified.



#10 Massac12E

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

I agree with all of the above but I feel the following should also be added:

Running Downed Strikes
Specific weapon usage(e.g. Triple H should be the only guy using a Sledgehammer)

 

Running Downed Strikes I have listed as Ground Running Strikes. That is, if that's what you're talking about.

 

Specific weapon usage I would incorporate through the favorite option. You make Triple H's favorite weapon the sledgehammer, that's what he'll go for. Favorites would be an epic idea if it was done properly. I'd love to see a CAW of The Sandman actually go for the Kendo Stick and perform the White Russian Leg Sweep...or have Heel Batista go crazy with the ring steps and Batista Bomb someone on them.



#11 Vamos

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

Given the situation, I dont think that WWE14 will improvements to that area. Wait until its fully gone to VC and on a new engine.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: A.I., artificial intelligence, WWE, Yukes, 2k, Visual Concepts, WWE 14, WWE 2k14, improvements