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Sincere question about Del Rio


Rozay.

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Okay. Maybe this is stupid and/or not topic worthy. But I am curious to read other people's opinions on this.

 

From what I see, Del Rio's turn has been pretty well accepted, at least here on CAWs. But I've been... critic of it, to say the least.

 

Here are some of my arguments about why I don't like how they did it. The first one posted on a topic with the Smackdown Spoilers, and the other one on WWE Universe topic.

 

 

Don't even know what to make of this. I think Del Rio the wrestler is talented enough to work as a face and a heel. Del Rio the character, though, does not work as a face, only as a heel. At least in my opinion. Plus, I was liking Show's run as a champ. And I thought we were getting Show vs. Ryback at Wrestlemania. Well, I have a slight hope... When Johnny Nitro won the ECW title, they gave his character a new edge the next show and he became John Morrison, who as a heel was pretty damn awesome. I hope Del Rio gives his character a twist to make me care about him as a face. Until now, he hadn't even one promo explaining why he "changed his mind", and he's strapped already. It's not just "cheer for him because he beats up bad guys and we need a latino face in the main event". That doesn't quite do the job for me.

 

 

Am I the only one that's not feeling this Del Rio turn at all? It's so damn unnatural. I simply can't see Del Rio the character work as a face, even though Del Rio the wrestler is more than capable of being a good guy. I watched Smackdown and was not impressed.

Big Show alluded to the fact of WWE giving him the spot because he is latino, to try and generate heat, or even to be funny perhaps. But because it's so true, it became an awkward moment.

 

It's like WWE said: "Well, we need another latino top face. Rey and Cara aren't working. So let's have the rich, pompous and bossy heel beat up other heels now. Why? Just because. That worked with Orton, why wouldn't it work for everyone else. Right? C'mon guys, no need to overthink this. Start making some Del Rio shirts and send them to mexican stores. This will totally work."

 

He's one of my favs on WWE, but I just feel this all is so forced and rushed. I'm not able to buy it. But, since this seems to have gone well, despite me not being able to enjoy it at all, I have a sincere question: why you guys like his character as a face? I wanna read your thoughts. Thanks.

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I like Del Rio period. I could really care less if he's a face or a heel. The reason Del Rio works or so many levels so well is because he's smart - extremely smart. You can have all the talent in the world but you have to know how to work with what you are given as well as what you already know. Del Rio does that better than anyone on the roster including Punk and Cena. I've never heard of him to be a selfish performer. Even when he was having great matches with Randy Orton, it was obvious that he was willing to give more than he took. His first few promos were golden. His attitude is golden. There's something old and classy about Del Rio.

 

As far as the face turn goes: I don't think it was rushed or forced per se. I think the WWE saw an opportunity with the lack of talent on the roster. The hispanic demographic is huge. We have seen Rey Mysterio but Rey can't carry a promotion. I think Del Rio can carry the WWE banner for either RAW or SmackDown! - those things are all irrelevant.

 

Was it shoved down our throats a bit abruptly? Very much so. But Del Rio's character was VERY leftist and when you have a character that needs to change, why wait and draw the process out, especially if you know the character in question can transition very easily?

 

The same way I'm a fan of Chris Jericho, I am a fan of Del Rio. You have to use your talented chameleons when you get the opportunity. Besides that, Del Rio being a face and being champion opens up a lot of doors for new contenders because he's beatable. Now people believe Ziggler, Kofi and the Miz (all of the transitional wrestlers that are typically stuck between main event and mid card), have a chance to win the WHC. It is also very believable that Del Rio can beat any man on the roster.

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The same way I'm a fan of Chris Jericho, I am a fan of Del Rio. You have to use your talented chameleons when you get the opportunity. Besides that, Del Rio being a face and being champion opens up a lot of doors for new contenders because he's beatable. Now people believe Ziggler, Kofi and the Miz (all of the transitional wrestlers that are typically stuck between main event and mid card), have a chance to win the WHC. It is also very believable that Del Rio can beat any man on the roster.

 

Amen.

 

I myself was a bit iffy about Del Rio turning face due to his look, entrance, special ring announcer and even his moveset all oozing a heel persona. However, I thought the same thing about Sheamus thinking it was ridiculous turning him face as he also had the look of a heel. Now look at Sheamus kissing babies and smiling more than Kofi Kingston.

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Del Rio is one of if not the best current wrestler on the WWE roster at being able to tell a story inside the ring, much like Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels he knows how to pace the match according to how the fans are reacting and knows all the mannerisms and gestures needed to get fans into it. He's definitely not one of the guys on the roster that is just happy to show up and get a paycheck.

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@The Knight: I completely agree with you about how talented Del Rio is. Always liked him since his days on CMLL and AAA. I was awestruck when he first debuted, even though people thought he was rushed to the top too quickly. By the way, if everyone paid did the "paying dues" way, this thing would be very boring. Some characters benefit from a slow climb to the top, some are better suited for the main event from the start. I love the thought of a young phenom, a guy who shows up from nowhere and is better than most. Because that happens quite a lot in real sports, and it makes for interesting buzz and stories. NJPW did that with Okada, now he's a star. The last guy WWE really did that for? Brock Lesnar. It takes some balls to push a guy to the moon right from the get-go, but hey, it might just work. Ryback was suddenly thrusted into main event and seems to be working also.

 

Back to my point, I estabilished I like Del Rio the perfomer already. My problem is with his character. When I'm watching, for example, Pro Wrestling NOAH, I might lower my expectations about characters, because they treat their show almost completely like a sport. That's their style. In WWE, I look for compelling characters also. I have to at least know what the character stands for. In Del Rio's character's case, his face turn seems to erase absolutely everything we know about him as a character. And so far the replacement has been almost non-existant. I just saw his backstage fallout. He atleast acknowledged they used to hate him. But everything else seems prototypical WWE babyface. And he now suddenly takes pride in being latino? He always rejected that. His only pride was being royalty. He was smug, pompous... and when at his best, extremely virtuous, when you know, WWE pushed him to win clean against faces. That was his differential and what got him heat. Now he is a man of the people? Why? No explanation was given. I get that they need a top babyface to attend to a huge demographic. But I feel that just can't come that forced.

 

Anyway, from what I see from you guys up to now, you like him because he is a great overall performer, and don't care much as about his character as me.

 

And the wink is awesome.

 

Oh, by the way: I don't know about him being beatable. This is WWE we're talking about, they don't usually have their top faces losing clean. If anything, him winning a Last Standing Match against Big Show shows he might be on his way to become another superman. Who was the last to beat Show on a LMS match? Cena, I guess. Oh well, maybe he'll be like Orton, who takes a clean loss or two.

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@Rozay

 

I see where you're coming from a lot clearer now.

 

I am trying to think of a situation akin to the one in discussion. I think the situation is a bit foreign to us because we have never had something like this play out before. There is a dramatic character shift without a strong foundation behind why besides a group harassing another group of people.

 

We still know his background, that doesn't necessarily change. Motivation is lacking.

 

In 1999 when Raven returned to ECW, he suddenly aligned himself with Tommy Dreamer after a very long, personal and bloody rivalry. They became ECW Tag Team Champions. Raven didn't speak much during his return so motivation for his change of heart were unknown. We had to let the story play out.

 

I think we have something similar here where we have to let the story play out to fully understand his motivation for what he is doing.

 

I also think it says much about a character (wrestler) to be able to transition and be accepted so readily without having much known behind the why. They've tried to do something similar with the Miz but clearly it hasn't worked.

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@Vii Kay Oh: my problem with it is that Randy's character and Edge's character didn't have to turn against everything they were to be likable. Everyone likes a loner like Orton. And Edge has that rock star attitude about him that can be at the same time despisabble and likable. Their characters are more flexible than Del Rio's, I believe. They had, like The Knight said, strong foundations, that allowed them to explore other traits of their personas that sucessfuly corresponded with the traits of a likable character. That's the difference to me.

 

@The Knight: yeah, I guess I'll have to wait and see. Like I said before, maybe his character will gain another layer to it, like when Johnny Nitro changed to John Morrison. Well, maybe he doesn't need that at all, and I'm just nitpicking. The SD! crowd popped big for the title change, so let's see if that momentum continues.

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I think the transition could have been better if they had a segment where a frustrated Del Rio is approached by Ricardo and he sits there as his ring announcer gives a semi speech about how he knows things been tough but will get better, how great he think Del Rio is, and how he will always respect and honor working as the mans ring announcer. Then walk away leaving him to think.

 

Which could then lead to Del Rio comng to Ricardos aid at the ppv like he did, and we'd all have some sort of understanding and possibly get behind it a bit more. But I'm not against how they actually did it either.

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I think the transition could have been better if they had a segment where a frustrated Del Rio is approached by Ricardo and he sits there as his ring announcer gives a semi speech about how he knows things been tough but will get better, how great he think Del Rio is, and how he will always respect and honor working as the mans ring announcer. Then walk away leaving him to think.

 

Which could then lead to Del Rio comng to Ricardos aid at the ppv like he did, and we'd all have some sort of understanding and possibly get behind it a bit more. But I'm not against how they actually did it either.

Considering he's done that every week..

Constantly sticking by him, interfering for him, EVERYTHING.

And has shown/shows no signs of defection, if anything a deeper loyalty

 

@Vii Kay Oh: my problem with it is that Randy's character and Edge's character didn't have to turn against everything they were to be likable. Everyone likes a loner like Orton. And Edge has that rock star attitude about him that can be at the same time despisabble and likable. Their characters are more flexible than Del Rio's, I believe. They had, like The Knight said, strong foundations, that allowed them to explore other traits of their personas that sucessfuly corresponded with the traits of a likable character. That's the difference to me.

Well now it's just a case of it being okay/not okay because you guys liked the other superstars.

Randy Orton did cut throat shit as the Legend Killer but when Evolution turned on him, all of a sudden he was a face for no other reason. His turn after all that mentally sick shit made less sense. Edge flip flop the whole Rated R era and the only thing that changed was that he didn't insult the fans. THAT'S IT, don't act like it was more.

 

It works for Del Rio, like it works for them and everyone else-

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Alberto Del Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

 

Apart from that I couldn't care less about the guy, I do think he's been pushed awfully quick though

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Back in the "the day" (whatever that might mean to you), we had proper veterans. We had older guys who had a massive experience wrestling all over before coming to the WWE, and could still put on a wrestling clinic (Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, etc). They were excellent because they had both the ability to compete, and the experience to hold their own. Lately, with the youth movement going on in the WWE, we've been alack of that essence of experience MIXED with talent. Sure, you have younger guys on the Indys wrestling all over the world but you have to remember that the vets of yesterwear did all that AND THEN SOME before coming to the WWE, which really catapulted them to a whole other level. Alberto Del Rio is that guy. He's paid his dued, he's wrestled all over the world, he's built a name for himself, and he's at that age that people can look at him and automatically know he knows what's up.

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@Vii Kay Oh: my problem with it is that Randy's character and Edge's character didn't have to turn against everything they were to be likable. Everyone likes a loner like Orton. And Edge has that rock star attitude about him that can be at the same time despisabble and likable. Their characters are more flexible than Del Rio's, I believe. They had, like The Knight said, strong foundations, that allowed them to explore other traits of their personas that sucessfuly corresponded with the traits of a likable character. That's the difference to me.

Well now it's just a case of it being okay/not okay because you guys liked the other superstars.

Randy Orton did cut throat shit as the Legend Killer but when Evolution turned on him, all of a sudden he was a face for no other reason. His turn after all that mentally sick shit made less sense. Edge flip flop the whole Rated R era and the only thing that changed was that he didn't insult the fans. THAT'S IT, don't act like it was more.

 

It works for Del Rio, like it works for them and everyone else-

 

I don't think you understood my point.

 

I like Del Rio. As a matter of fact, while I'm at it, of the three guys mentioned, he's the one I like the most. Edge is okay to me and I don't like Orton at all. When I was talking about them, I was just giving my analysis of why I think their face turns worked, not stating personal opinion. And like I said, they didn't need to change a lot, because what makes them likable was already there in their characters, all they need to do is switch alleigances. They had likable traits in the background of their characters already. As for Del Rio, his original character had no babyface traits in it. And when he switched, he switches to stand against everything he was before, becoming a somewhat generic babyface in the process, with no hint of explanation given whatsoever, at least for now. And he's World Champ already, that makes matters even worse.

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I've always liked Del Rio for his finesse. Everything he does, he does with class.

 

I just love to watch him. His face turn was a smart move because he isn't the same cheesy "Sheamus" face. He's the same guy as before and that's why I think it works. He's just so likable now.

 

I also feel he's one of the very few badasses in WWE. He has that "I can kick your ass" look, which is why I'm usually drawn to guys like Big E, Orton, Cena and Roman Reigns.

 

But yeah, I render his face turn a big success so far.

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I enjoyed ADR alot when he first debuted, he was a breath of fresh air in the WWE. He had so much that set him apart, the scarf, the car entrance, his own ring announcer, and that's all his entrance. His finish was a submission, and at first, he actually won cleanly using it. A heel using a submission for a clean finish? It was unbelievable. Plus, the guy had an aggression which was also unusual for heels, because WWE just love their heels to be cowardly wimps, yet I remember clearly in a promo before TLC 2010, Del Rio attacked, and was able to hang with a heel Kane. That again was unusual and appealing about him.

 

Where they screwed up was trying to rush him as a main event player, and not following through. That's what killed the heat he was building with the fans. He went from being a newcomer who could hang with the top guys, to failing whenever he was thrown in with them. He couldn't beat Edge, he couldn't beat Christian, when he got drafted to RAW he couldn't do the same to Cena or Punk. He looked inferior constantly, and they also killed off any character development by trying to springboard him into the main event slot, so he was stuck. Not to mention, once he went to RAW he became the prototypical pussy heel WWE just loves booking.

 

So after his endless one sided feud with Sheamus, I welcomed the face turn with open arms. It was something different, it provided new opportunities, and I think the audiences realized the same. Plus, he wasn't really over as a heel. It's easy for people to cheer him now because they didn't really hate him because WWE didn't give em much reason to, so the face turn was easy enough to gain traction and get over.

 

Personally, I love it. I'm glad they've switched him, and I'm fine with the fact that there's not much story to it. Sometimes the spontaneous, random things like his turn are just fun to see. I think it's great that they haven't done much with it yet, because it allows him to retain his heel gimmick without changing it to where I wouldn't like him.

 

That's the biggest issue, I feel, with face turns, is that you fiddle with the formula too much switching em, and they lose the edge they had and the reason why you switched them anyway. It happened recently to, and I'll give you an example, with Davey Richards in ROH. The guy was one of my favorites when I first got into ROH a few years ago, and it was great to see an intense, ass kicking machine who didn't take any prisoners. He was fun to see just kick the shit outta guys, and I was fully behind his hunt for the World title. Fast forward a few months after he's beaten Eddie Edwards for the ROH World title, and I couldn't wait for him to lose it. In the process of becoming a top face, they stripped him of his edge. To put it bluntly, he lost his balls. He went from just a bad dude who hurt guys, to a guy who had to win the belt because of his grandparents and the near retirement story he had, and he lost the appeal, the reason why I wanted to see him be the top guy. Don't get me wrong, the stuff about his grandparents and all that is a great and true story, it just didn't work for Davey and the image he had, to me atleast.

 

So if WWE don't necessarily give Del Rio's turn much rhyme or reason, it doesn't bug me. The longer he can retain heel traits while staying a face, the better.

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