Jump to content

CAWs.ws
Facebook Twitter YouTube RSS Feed

The Metal Gauntlet - Preview and rules thread.

Metal Gauntlet music tournament

  • Please log in to reply
106 replies to this topic

#41 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:25 PM

Okay cool, I had Venom in there to begin with. Took em out, didn't know really where to put them. Putting Venom in NWOBHM with Maiden and Motorhead would have set up another 3 definite winners/3 definite losers type of bracket and I try to avoid those, since a number of brackets can be wide open or just have 1 or 2 gimmies.

Also, I'll put Burzum in 2nd wave. Not to go off topic, but I've always wondered this? What do Mayhem fans think of Burzum and if they respect them, why? Like we all know that Kurt Cobain killed himself. But what if in some bizzarro-land alternate universe, What if Krist Novoselic off'd himself instead of Cobain, and then a session bassist from like the Screaming Trees or Green River or any grunge band replaced him, but then that guy murdered Cobain. Who would continue to listen to and support the band that said bassist came from amongst the grunge community... in that alternate dimension??


Also Stacio, I put Sabbath in Doom because they invented it. And the other bands in that category all draw very heavy inspiration from Sabbath and quite frequently sound like early Sabbath. Every band in that Psychedelic Doom block is pretty old school. Sure, I could put Black Sabbath in the Classic Heavy Metal block alongside Priest, but I wanted to try to avoid putting any combo of Sabbath, Priest and Maiden in the same block. If I put those 3 in any block, then there is no need for a 4-6 in their block.

#42 Crazy Moon

Crazy Moon

    I'll slap you in the face with a strip of watermelon!

  • Members
  • 15,446 posts

Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:23 PM

What about the bands I suggested :poke:

Also Archenemy. Don't believe I saw them in there.

#43 Mustacio

Mustacio

    That Handsome Devil

  • Members
  • 9,331 posts
  • Location: Denmark
  • Gamertag: DrMustacio

Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:31 PM

Okay cool, I had Venom in there to begin with. Took em out, didn't know really where to put them. Putting Venom in NWOBHM with Maiden and Motorhead would have set up another 3 definite winners/3 definite losers type of bracket and I try to avoid those, since a number of brackets can be wide open or just have 1 or 2 gimmies.

Also, I'll put Burzum in 2nd wave. Not to go off topic, but I've always wondered this? What do Mayhem fans think of Burzum and if they respect them, why? Like we all know that Kurt Cobain killed himself. But what if in some bizzarro-land alternate universe, What if Krist Novoselic off'd himself instead of Cobain, and then a session bassist from like the Screaming Trees or Green River or any grunge band replaced him, but then that guy murdered Cobain. Who would continue to listen to and support the band that said bassist came from amongst the grunge community... in that alternate dimension??


Also Stacio, I put Sabbath in Doom because they invented it. And the other bands in that category all draw very heavy inspiration from Sabbath and quite frequently sound like early Sabbath. Every band in that Psychedelic Doom block is pretty old school. Sure, I could put Black Sabbath in the Classic Heavy Metal block alongside Priest, but I wanted to try to avoid putting any combo of Sabbath, Priest and Maiden in the same block. If I put those 3 in any block, then there is no need for a 4-6 in their block.


Well, to be fair.. Isn't the point sort of to find the best of the genre? Not to put someone in a genre when they would sit better in a different one, just 'cause some bands wouldn't stand a chance?

Could have an innovators tab, maybe. Sabbath pioneered metal more than doom, other than Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath from the album Black Sabbath, I can't think of any tracks I'd categorise as doom before I'd say it's classic.

#44 HellHammer

HellHammer

    Hall of Famer

  • V.I.P
  • 12,204 posts

Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:55 PM

Also, I'll put Burzum in 2nd wave. Not to go off topic, but I've always wondered this? What do Mayhem fans think of Burzum and if they respect them, why? Like we all know that Kurt Cobain killed himself. But what if in some bizzarro-land alternate universe, What if Krist Novoselic off'd himself instead of Cobain, and then a session bassist from like the Screaming Trees or Green River or any grunge band replaced him, but then that guy murdered Cobain. Who would continue to listen to and support the band that said bassist came from amongst the grunge community... in that alternate dimension??


You have to do your research with the whole scene, I can't really explain it but Norway is nothing like Seattle. It's a very different scene with very different personalities, morals, and viewpoints. There isn't too many people I know, or heard of who like black metal that like Mayhem but hate Burzum, they might think Varg Vikernes as a person is stupid for what he did, but Euronymous wasn't exactly normal either, so I'm not sure but it doesn't really have an effect on the Music. If this were to happen to the grunge scene I'm sure things would be quite different, especially the success of Nirvana, and the entire grunge movement of the 90's would have been altered significantly, and probably not for the better because I'm sure minority groups, and goverment funded committees would try to get records taken off store shelves even more then any tried initially.

#45 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:21 PM

Well, to be fair.. Isn't the point sort of to find the best of the genre? Not to put someone in a genre when they would sit better in a different one, just 'cause some bands wouldn't stand a chance?

Could have an innovators tab, maybe. Sabbath pioneered metal more than doom, other than Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath from the album Black Sabbath, I can't think of any tracks I'd categorise as doom before I'd say it's classic.


Yeah therein lies my problem, my catch 22

Hindsight being 20/20
I could have, should have, would've used a different, and generic format.

Bracket IV
Block B
bands 1-6

but instead I wanted to do genres
Thrash Bracket
Bay Area Blcok
bands 1-6

In the first example, I could put 6 random bands from any genre in it. But in the second one I have to get it correct and hopefully make it balanced too. As much as I stressed that this could help people find new music, the primary goal was always to set up a balanced tournament. I don't hate the idea of an innovators tab though.

Also I'd argue that they have a few more doom songs beyond just Black Sabbath. It depends on what type of Doom. Stoner rock had existed before Master of Reality but since Sabbath pioneered metal in general, Master of Reality by default becomes like the first real stoner metal album. One of my all time favorite albums btw.

What 6 bands would you put in the innovators block?


Hey, I just thought of a wacky idea!! What if instead of having divisional winners... blocks played each other like teams, with 1-6 vs 1-6 in order. Actually it would have to be 1-5 or 1-7 though to avoid ties. You vote for who u like best out of each 1 vs 1 matchup within the block vs block battle. Similar block vs similar block at first, but eventually we would have weird match ups between radically different genres. Genre blocks with a clean sweep would get a high seed the next round and genre blocks with a narrow win would get a low seed.
This type of tourny might spark a lot of animosity though and would be the most bizarre tournament ever. Plus the innovators block would probably ultimately win. Plus the whole thing would just pit fans of different stuff against each other.
^^Now I'm not saying that is a good idea, maybe it is cool, maybe it's awful, I don't even know, but it's an idea none the less.

You have to do your research with the whole scene, I can't really explain it but Norway is nothing like Seattle. It's a very different scene with very different personalities, morals, and viewpoints. There isn't too many people I know, or heard of who like black metal that like Mayhem but hate Burzum, they might think Varg Vikernes as a person is stupid for what he did, but Euronymous wasn't exactly normal either, so I'm not sure but it doesn't really have an effect on the Music. If this were to happen to the grunge scene I'm sure things would be quite different, especially the success of Nirvana, and the entire grunge movement of the 90's would have been altered significantly, and probably not for the better because I'm sure minority groups, and goverment funded committees would try to get records taken off store shelves even more then any tried initially.


I gotcha. Well explained man, and the grunge thing might not be the best comparison, but that's what I came up with. Really any scene could work in a loose comparison though. I picked grunge because many of it's fans (before it exploded into the mainstream) were very anti-establishment as well. I get that the fans of the scene as it happened in Norway probably had dif morals. But you're an American fan of BM, and likely a fan of the Norwegian scene. Nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you grew up presumably with American ideals of law & justice like the rest of us. I'm not even talking morality... I just mean simple crime and punishment. Now controversy nearly always elevates a band. Take Filthy 15 list for example, it only served to make those 15 bands way more known and popular than they were. But the Varg incident crosses the line. That's not mere controversy, that's homicide. I think and hope that if an incident like that happened anywhere in America, that most fans would throw the guilty party under the bus so to speak and stop supporting them. But I do understand and respect the fact that because that happened a rather long time ago in a foreign land that American fans of that particular scene can distance themselves from it entirely and just listen to the music unbiased by it.

For me personally, I never heard of Mayhem until I heard the f*cked up story, a long time ago. And it fish storied to hell and back, which doesn't help. Much more recently I even heard a comedian who worked that story into his stand up act.

Edited by unknownsold13r, 26 April 2012 - 11:03 PM.


#46 AssaultDriver720

AssaultDriver720

    Official CAWs.ws Addict

  • Members
  • 21,197 posts
  • Location: Jackson Heights, NY
  • Twitter: AssaultDriver

Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

Got to fix the Modern Traditional Metal list.

#47 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:53 PM

Well the whole "Heavy Metal" section probably needs rework come to think of it. I was pretty satisfied with it as far as a balanced tournament bracket is concerned. But in terms of accuracy, I'll admit it needs work.

I mean I did leave a disclaimer in the first post that this is NOT intended as a Sam Dunn style metal tree, but rather that these bracket titles are just that... a bracket title, as opposed to a definitive genre list. But since Hammer wants to put elements of this into the metal thread, and since that may ultimately be what this gauntlet thing that I've made becomes most useful for, then well I do want to rearrange stuff for accuracy, so I do appreciate the help. :cool:

Modern Traditional Metal... is really just a phrase I came up with. :lol: I mean hell those words are vague enough to include just about anything. I initially had Mastodon in the Sludge section, but moved them to make more room for some other sludge bands and keep that block more wide open in terms of competition. Most of the other bands in this group technically belong in other genres but I ran out of space in them and wanted to include them. Monster Magnet is stoner rock/metal. Huntress doesn't fit with any of the bands in this block, but I really dig them and couldn't find a home for them in the tourny and felt modern traditional is vague enough to work. A Pale Horse Named Death is Sal Abruscato's (of Type O) latest project. They sound sort of like Type O Negative... which I guess would be classified as Gothic metal. Back when I listened to Type O I never really had a genre in mind that they fit into, but I guess that is where they would fit. Nemesis we just might have a Gothic metal block incoming. I'm glad you mentioned those other bands on page 1.
Black Label Society I feel actually fits the modern traditional label. I mean they are Sabbathy doom inspired but they aren't fully sludge or stoner, they have enough classic & southern rock influences that make them different.

So that is my reasoning for all that stuff, but I will scrap that block and put those bands where they better fit. I just don't know how I'll do that quite yet.


Also, I think I will give this tourny a shot on Monday. I'll begin with the Thrash section since that looks pretty damn good to me right now. And I'll save the brackets that are not close to being finished yet for later.

#48 AssaultDriver720

AssaultDriver720

    Official CAWs.ws Addict

  • Members
  • 21,197 posts
  • Location: Jackson Heights, NY
  • Twitter: AssaultDriver

Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

When i saw Modern Traditional Metal i was thinking White Wizzard, Cauldron, Wolf, Steelwing those type of bands.

#49 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:41 PM

Those are some good suggestions! I do have White Wizzard in there somewhere, in whatever label I have for newer power metal bands but I can move stuff around. I'm familiar with Cauldron (if they are the Canadian band I'm thinking of), but not Wolf or Steelwing, but I'll add them too.

^ First one in Classic under Doom.

I think Lacuna Coil, Static X, and The Gazzette should be on here.


I would like to include Lacuna Coil. I just didn't know where to put them that wouldn't set people off. So I'm asking a general question: Where can Lacuna Coil find a spot?

Totally forgot about Static X, I shall put them in the Industrial Metal section. The key word also in Industrial metal is metal. Hence why there is no NIN or KMFDM. Most traditional industrial acts are basically computer music (bad term I know) that incorporate elements of rock and metal. But the bands I have in my section are more the other way around... metal bands who incorporate elements of industrial like Fear Factory and Strapping Young Lad. There is no escaping the industrial tag for those bands but they are bands first and foremost, not DJ troupes. Been awhile since I've heard Static X but I believe they fit my criteria.

I've never heard of The Gazzette though? Is that spelled correctly. A Gazette like a newspaper is spelled with just one z. Either way, I tried looking them up, but can't find anything about their existence. What kind of metal are they? Who do they sound like roughly?

Edited by unknownsold13r, 28 April 2012 - 08:30 PM.


#50 AssaultDriver720

AssaultDriver720

    Official CAWs.ws Addict

  • Members
  • 21,197 posts
  • Location: Jackson Heights, NY
  • Twitter: AssaultDriver

Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:54 PM

Guess you can also add Icarus Witch to the list

Wolf



Steelwing



#51 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:16 PM

What about the bands I suggested :poke:

Also Archenemy. Don't believe I saw them in there.


I'm a fan of Archenemy too. They've been in since the beginning... under Gothenburg. I am aware they are really from Halmstad, but they have the Gothenburg sound.

I really liked that Wolf track! Steelwing was okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbkxQsnzM4A
I'm familiar with Icarus Witch too, I've even seen them, years ago. They are a local Pittsburgh band. They are pretty obscure though and I didn't think anyone else had heard of them and I figured more people would have heard of the other bands I had in the modern power metal section. These guys got to play with Paul Di'Anno, which is cool, but not as Icarus Witch though, but as just like (The) Paul Di'Anno (band) or whatever he called them. I remember when Icarus Witch did this cover, I'm still kind of partial Alice's original version, but this is a pretty decent cover.

#52 Crazy Moon

Crazy Moon

    I'll slap you in the face with a strip of watermelon!

  • Members
  • 15,446 posts

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

I would like to think Lacuna Coil goes under gothic metal, but maybe they could fit in another branch. Maybe metal infused rock.

#53 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:59 PM

That sounds good. I'm actually adding a Seventh band to each group now. People will still vote for ONLY 3. So the tourny won't really change, there will just be an extra tourny. I haven't considered every little ramification that will have, but I do hope it might make each round a little more interesting by giving voters more options. The only concern is where will that (adding to the list) stop? I think 7 is plenty though to get a feel for each genre. I will have 7 for each real soon, but a couple brackets I'll still need help with.

#54 AssaultDriver720

AssaultDriver720

    Official CAWs.ws Addict

  • Members
  • 21,197 posts
  • Location: Jackson Heights, NY
  • Twitter: AssaultDriver

Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:00 AM


What about the bands I suggested :poke:

Also Archenemy. Don't believe I saw them in there.


I'm a fan of Archenemy too. They've been in since the beginning... under Gothenburg. I am aware they are really from Halmstad, but they have the Gothenburg sound.

I really liked that Wolf track! Steelwing was okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbkxQsnzM4A
I'm familiar with Icarus Witch too, I've even seen them, years ago. They are a local Pittsburgh band. They are pretty obscure though and I didn't think anyone else had heard of them and I figured more people would have heard of the other bands I had in the modern power metal section. These guys got to play with Paul Di'Anno, which is cool, but not as Icarus Witch though, but as just like (The) Paul Di'Anno (band) or whatever he called them. I remember when Icarus Witch did this cover, I'm still kind of partial Alice's original version, but this is a pretty decent cover.


Thats why we have the internet for, heard that the shows with Di'Anno are cancel for some reason.

#55 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:30 AM

^ true lol
I dunno about the cancellations, I didn't see them with Di'Anno. I saw them quite a while before that at a really small venue.

#56 Crazy Moon

Crazy Moon

    I'll slap you in the face with a strip of watermelon!

  • Members
  • 15,446 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:41 AM

Might be a stretch here, and most likely is... But how about Staind for the 7th entry in Classic Progessive Rock?

Or Alternative Prog Rock.

#57 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:49 AM

First time I'm going to have to veto you bro. I would not consider Staind to be progressive. They could fit into the Alternative or Nu metal groups. They aren't really a nu metal band. I always thought of them as just alternative rock. Some of their early stuff has a heaviness about it that they could be in the same block as Sevendust though for instance.

I know prog rock pretty well, in fact I've considered making a prog rock/metal thread. I've held off though, because there are already rock and metal threads and prog stuff fits in those just fine. That said, it still would seem a little odd to have Scale the Summit next Dying Fetus in the metal thread or Pain of Salvation next to Nickelback in the rock thread though.

#58 Crazy Moon

Crazy Moon

    I'll slap you in the face with a strip of watermelon!

  • Members
  • 15,446 posts

Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:14 AM

Sorry, I wasn't so sure. that's why I claimed it to be a stretch.

#59 unknownsold13r

unknownsold13r

    Marquis of Death's Apprentice

  • Members
  • 7,085 posts
  • Location: Doomstadt, Latveria

Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:46 AM

It's all good. Hell, I've made quite a few mistakes in my own gauntlet so far, it's no biggie. :cool:

#60 AssaultDriver720

AssaultDriver720

    Official CAWs.ws Addict

  • Members
  • 21,197 posts
  • Location: Jackson Heights, NY
  • Twitter: AssaultDriver

Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:13 AM

For Tech Death take out Meshuggah put in Obscura or Necrophagist.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Metal, Gauntlet, music, tournament