Warren Zevon Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 This is going to be a long post, so if you don't feel like reading it all, skip down near the bottom to my questions. I'd like to start by saying that I have spent the past few weeks reading the forums here and watching Raw and Smackdown trying to get a feel of things. I have noticed that CAWs is a nice community and figured that I could get some help here. A little background: I used to watch WCW Nitro and Thunder weekly when I was younger with sporadic viewings of WWF/E programming, and I was a pretty big fan. I quit watching wrestling regularly back in the early 2000s, not long after WCW was bought out. The last I remember of WWE from watching full episodes is when I returned for a while to watch Ernest Miller come back. I remember Rodney Mack being managed by Teddy Long, Eric Bischoff as GM, and debuts of talent like Brock Lesnar and John Cena. I didn't really like what I saw, so I ended up tuning out after a few months. Looking back on these events online, this places my last regular viewings somewhere between 2002 and 2004, so I've been away for a while. My favorite wrestlers from the past: Scott Hall - Made his character his own, entertaining selling, part of a few great stables Sting - I was a huge Sting mark, I loved the energy he brought and his signature moves were great Ric Flair - "Woo!", the charisma and his colorful robes he wore on entrances were great Chris Benoit - Amazing technician, had some of the most entertaining matches, liked him with Dean Malenko Scott Steiner - The Steiner Recliner was one of my favorite moves, he was a pretty good wrestler too Sid Vicious - A bit of a clumsy wrestler, but I bought into it for some reason DDP - The Diamond Cutter was great, and his entrance was probably in my top three My favorite Tag-Teams/Stables from the past: The Outsiders Harlem Heat The Four Horsemen Now that I've given some background info, I'd like to get back to the present and ask a few questions. Here is what I have gathered from what I have seen so far: Pros: John Morrison - I'm a big fan of The Doors, so the gimmick works for me. He has great in-ring ability IMO, but from reading on the boards he seems to be in trouble due to his bad attitude and could possibly be released when his contract expires, so I don't want to get too invested in him. Christian - He was always the "Marty Jannetty" to Edge's "Shawn Michaels" in my eyes, and I was suprised to see him as a serious singles competitor now. It took me a while to recognize him with short hair, but I'm liking his gimmick and his slaps are refreshing. Randy Orton - The last that I saw him, he was starting the "Legend Killer" gimmick, and I believe that he was in a feud with Mick Foley at the time. I did not like him AT ALL at the time, but I am liking him this time around. He seems to be a solid competitor, though I know from reading up on him that he is a bit of a dick. Cons: No cruiserweight title - Where are all of the cruiserweights? Where is the title? I'm not quite sure what happened, though I remember hearing about somebody botching a maneuver(I think it was a 450 splash?) and breaking some bones in their opponent's face. I know that certain aerial maneuvers were banned for a while for some reason or another, but if anybody could tell me where the cruiserweight title went, it would be much appreciated. PG - I understand that this is helpful for reaching a wider audience and makes a lot more money for the WWE. I also know that this has been discussed to death so I won't go on too long about this. All I will say is that wrestling just doesn't feel the same to me without the occasional busted head or expletive-laden rant. I also miss Lawler talking about "puppies" every time a diva made her entrance... lol Underutilized Talent - This is by no means a new problem with WWE or any wrestling organization for that matter. We get people with "the look" pushed on us while excellent technicians like William Regal are backburnered. I'm not sure if the roster is smaller than it used to be as well, because it seems like I am seeing the same five or six people each episode, and I don't seem to remember it being quite this bad in the past. And now my questions: 1. Given what I've posted as far as my old favorites, which superstars do you think that I should keep an eye on? 2. Why has the cruiserweight division been phased out? 3. What are some of the best matches in the last 4 or 5 years that I could watch to get back into wrestling(preferrably with at least 1 of the wrestlers still employed by the WWE, youtube links would be helpful as well) Cheers, Warren Zevon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kαятik Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 1. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, John Cena, Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, Del Rio. 3. Cena vs Punk at Money in the Bank 2011. HBK vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25 and 26. Triple H vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 27. Shaemus vs John Morrison TLC 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBloodEnigma Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 And now my questions: 1. Given what I've posted as far as my old favorites, which superstars do you think that I should keep an eye on? CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sin Cara, The Miz and Sheamus. 2. Why has the cruiserweight division been phased out? Vince likes big guys, simple. 3. What are some of the best matches in the last 4 or 5 years that I could watch to get back into wrestling(preferrably with at least 1 of the wrestlers still employed by the WWE, youtube links would be helpful as well) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbiW9DmxMQs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKM8vVdNQdM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAP5p1hNZOw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foNb6JiUuvg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzTnB-Hbd1E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYQrVIw_Iak Cheers, Warren Zevon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splasher Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 1. Cody Rhodes (making a gimmick his own), Kofi Kingston (his energy, although he botches a bit), Daniel Bryan (amazing in-ring technician), Henry (not the best wrestler, but great to watch). I tried to match up some of the things you liked in past wrestlers to current wrestlers 2. There's no real reason WHY it was phased out as far as I know, but Hornswoggle was the last CW champ. Haven't heard of him? He lives under the ring and is a leprechaun. 3. There a have been a lot of great matches... here's some of my favourites from each year starting at 2004: 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX, Randy Orton vs Mick Foley (Hardcore) - Backlash, Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (Hell In A Cell) - Bad Blood. Also; Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - Judgement Day. The blood lost by Eddie is sickening. 2005: Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 21, The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - Wrestlemania 21, The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Hell In A Cell) - Armageddon, John Cena vs JBL (I Quit) - Judgement Day, Batista vs Triple H (Hell In A Cell) - Vengeance. 2006: Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker - No Way Out, Mick Foley vs Edge (Hardcore) - Wrestlemania 22, Mick Foley/Edge/Lita vs Terry Funk/Tommy Dreamer/Bealuh (Hardcore) - One Night Stand, Edge vs John Cena (TLC) - Unforgiven. Also; Brian Kendrick/Paul London vs William Regal/Dave Taylor vs The Hardyz vs MNM (Ladder) - Armageddon. Mecury's injury is just, ouch. John Cena vs Rob Van Dam (Hardcore) - One Night Stand. The atomsphere is amazing. 2007: John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23, John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - RAW 4/23, John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Randy Orton vs Edge - Backlash, Edge vs Randy Orton - RAW 4/30, D-X vs Rated RKO - New Year's Revolution, John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing) - Royal Rumble. 2008: Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair (Retirement Match) - Wrestmania 24 Money in the Bank Ladder Match - Wrestlemania 24, Undertaker vs Edge (Hell in a Cell) - Summerslam, Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho - Raw Money in the Bank Qualifier, Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Ladder) - No Mercy, Undertaker vs. Edge (TLC) - One Night Stand. 2009: The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25, Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio - Great American Bash, Jeff Hardy vs Matt Hardy (Extreme Rules) - Wrestlemania 25, Christian vs. Shelton Benajmin John Cena vs Randy Orton (I Quit) - Breaking Point, John Cena vs Randy Orton (Iron Man) - Bragging Rights, Christian vs Shelton Benjamin (Ladder) - TLC, D-Generation X vs. Legacy (Hell in a Cell) - Hell in a Cell, CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (TLC) - Summerslam. 2010: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Steak vs Career) - Wrestlemania 26, Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Bragging Rights, Undertaker vs. R-Truth vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) - Elimination Chamber, Sheamus vs John Morrison (Ladder) - TLC, CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Over the Limit, 2010 Royal Rumble - Royal Rumble, Sheamus vs John Morrison (Falls Count Anywhere) - Raw 9/13 Goldust vs Chris Jericho - Superstars (not sure what the date was) Kane vs Big Show, Kofi Kingston vs Drew McIntyre vs Christian vs Matt Hardy vs Dolph Ziggler vs "Dashing" Cody Rhodes (Money in the Bank) - Money in the Bank. 2011: Christian vs Randy Orton - Over the Limit, Christian vs Randy Orton (Street Fight) - Summerslam Randy Orton vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania 27, John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank, John Cena vs CM Punk - Summerslam, The Undertaker vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 27, Edge vs Ziggler - Royal Rumble. As you can tell by the small amount of matches in the earlier years, I don't have a good memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazman™ Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Alberto Del Rio, Wade Barrett, Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan There was never an explanation as to why the Cruiserweight title was taken out of WWE. There have been quite a few great matches but I will just name a few. Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker - WrestleMania 25 and 26 John Cena vs. CM Punk - Money In The Bank 2011 Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler - Bragging Rights 2010 Team WWE vs. The Nexus - SummerSlam 2010 Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - No Mercy 2008 Edge vs. John Cena - Backlash 2009 CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy - SummerSlam 2009 Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio - The Bash 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Wow, I am getting a lot more thorough replies than I was expecting, and I can't begin to say how grateful I am. I'll watch a lot of these matches tomorrow, and see what I've been missing. I've seen bits and pieces of the JBL/Eddie match with the blading accident, Eddie was another one of the greats that I liked in whatever organization he was working for. Him finishing the match and playing to the crowd with all of that blood draining out was really a sight to see. Out of the people that have been mentioned for me to watch: Mark Henry - I am glad to see vets getting a push, even if I had always seen him as a rather average performer. He can definitely play menacing well. Cody Rhodes - I'm not quite sold on him yet, but the paper bag thing is pretty original. Daniel Bryan - I haven't seen too much of him, but I like what I've seen so far. I'm not familiar enough with him to make an opinion just yet. CM Punk - I really like the character, and I have a feeling that he'll be one of my favorites. I'll have to watch him in some matches that aren't just singles or tag matches. Sheamus - Really makes his punches look painful, I like his finisher and the big boot has always been a fun move to watch with the big guys. Sin Cara - It's nice to see some luchadors, even if he botches a lot. I was a big fan of La Parka, Rey Mysterio and Psicosis in WCW, so it is a bit of a throwback. The two Sin Caras storyline is decent enough to keep me interested in the character. Kofi Kingston - He hasn't really jumped out at me yet, but I do agree that he has a certain energy about him. I'll watch his matches more closely. The Miz - I've watched The Real World since the first season, and I didn't like him at all, so I came into his matches not expecting much. He makes some weird faces, but he definitely has energy and charisma and all that jazz. Del Rio - I don't like him. I'm not sure exactly what it is yet, but I dislike him in a bad way. It isn't a love to hate thing like you sometimes get with heels, I am just not taking the bait. Cena - I didn't like what I saw of him as a rapper, and I don't like whatever he is supposed to be now. Everything about him just screams bland to me, and he uses the same few moves over and over. Of course, this doesn't make him a bad wrestler, and he's 1000x times the wrestler that an untrained person like I would be. I also realize that he is the "poster boy" for WWE and it brings in a lot of money, so I'm all for enduring him for as long as they want to push him on us if it brings in business. Randy Orton - I've already stated some of my thoughts on him earlier, but I will say again that I am pretty interested in the guy. He really whips his powerslams and makes them look pretty devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore. Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Match-wise, you must watch Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker at WrestleMania 25. It's the best match I've ever seen. Superstars you should keep an eye on, definitely Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. I'm actually somewhat surprised you like Orton better now. I think his Legend Killer gimmick was the best thing for him, but for years now he's had the same gimmick, cut the same promos and basically worked every match with a Cena-like predictability to them. In a way I envy the position you're in, had I have stopped watching when you did I'd have never sat through years of such a slow, depressing state that wrestling's gone through. As of late, though, the WWE has gotten a lot more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V to I Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Between Splasher and Dazman's match choices, there's a ton of good choices in there. Just to add to Splasher and Dazman's list: 2005: All of HBK-Angle's matches (Mania 21, Vengeance 05, 1/2 Hour Ironman Match on RAW Homecoming) Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio's matches throughout the year, the First MITB at Mania 21, HBK-Shelton Benjamin (RAW Gold Rush Tournament), Team RAW vs Team SD from Survivor Series 05.I'd definitely watch ECW One Night Stand too, the whole card is perfect IMO. Matt Hardy's matches with Edge are also worth a look too 2006: Edge-RVD from Vengeance 06, Paul London/Brian Kendrick vs the Pitbulls from Great American Bash, Chris Benoit vs William Regal from No Mercy, and Benoit vs Finlay from Judgment Day 2008: All of Jericho and HBK's matches together 2009: All of Jericho and Mysterio's matches together, Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat from Backlash 2010: Cena vs Wade Barrett from Hell in a Cell, Jericho vs Daniel Bryan (first episode of NXT), Daniel Bryan vs The Miz from Night of Champions 2011: Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio (Wrestlemania & Extreme Rules), All of Christian and Orton's matches together, and all of CM Punk's matches with Cena There's a ton of matches mentioned in this thread, but I would definitely recommend pretty much all of them as essential viewing. They're all worth the time. And for guys like Bryan and Punk, I'd recommend their Indy work too. They had real 5* matches with tons of people before entering WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 1. CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Christian, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Wade Barrett. 2. No real reason why, WWE just scrapped it. The belt lost a lot of prestige right before it was totally nixed. 3. Splasher has a great, and I mean great list. I'd say watch most of those matches, and watch the build up to the matches. Matches like Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH, Angle vs. Benoit, HHH vs. HBK, HBK vs. Angle, Taker vs. Edge, Jericho vs. HBK, HBK vs. Taker, Christian vs. Randy Orton, and CM Punk vs. John Cena are greatly enhanced by the stories leading up to the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastkody Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Just watch anything w/ ORTON, ZIGGLER, CODY or CM PUNK and you'll be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counting Lights Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I think everyone has listed the best wrestlers to watch, but I'll throw in a few matches. Trent Baretta vs Curt Hawkins-Superstars(They had a few matches, and they were all awesome) Trent Baretta vs Tyson Kidd(same as above) Jeff Hardy vs Triple H vs Edge-Armageddon 2008 Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy-WrestleMania 25 CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio-Armageddon 2008 Edge vs Jeff Hardy-Extreme Rules 2009 Zack Ryder vs Evan Bourne-Superstars(can't remember date, but they had one 5 star match, along with a few 3 star ones) Chris Jericho vs Evan Bourne-Fatal 4 Way 2010 Wade Barrett vs Daniel Bryan-SummerSlam 2011 CM Punk vs John Cena-Money in the Bank 2011 The Miz vs Daniel Bryan-Night of Champions 2010 Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan-NXT(debut night) Justin Gabriel vs Sin Cara(I think this was last weeks SD!, or maybe the week before) Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio-WrestleMania 27 Wade Barrett vs John Morrison(this past RAW) The Miz vs John Morrison(first RAW this year) Dolph Ziggler vs Edge-Royal Rumble 2011 Christian vs Alberto del Rio-Extreme Rules 2011 CM Punk vs Christian-This past SD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexual Tyrannosaurus Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Maybe pick up those WWE 'year in review' or 'greatest ppv matches' dvds on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PewPewPew Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I know this isn't answering your question but since you're looking to get back into wrestling, may I suggest watching different wrestling companies? I mean, TNA (despite there being obvious blunders at times), Ring of Honour and many other companies offer a brilliant alternative to what you're suggesting - you might like them, might not. Just a suggestion. I will answer one of your questions now about the Cruiserweight division. I believe in part, it was dropped because the whole division became a joke in the end. A midget was holding the title, running around and beating a former champion on numerous occasions. The title lost all credibility. Plus, you had Rey Mysterio running around beating heavyweights and it really took away for the need to have a cruiserweight division (that and lack of challengers and also the fact that WWE's whole 'image' of wrestlers had changed quite a lot, so small workers were essentially phased out for a while). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliber. Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 .Joel's right, but hey, WWE is the daddy of wrestlin'. I suggest if you have the time and money, buy those DVDs of 'The Best of ...' or something like that. Or if you want a detailed view and have a lot of time, read archives from WWE.com, i think they have from 2005 to present. And check out my review too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy. Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 1. CM Punk, Mark Henry, Miz, R-Truth, Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan 2. What .Joel said... 3. Batista/Taker @ WM 23, Jericho/Mysterio's mid-2009 series of matches, Cena/Edge Last Man Standing @ Backlash 2009, Jeff Hardy/Edge Ladder Match @ Extreme Rules 2009, HBK/Taker @ WM 25 & 26, Edge/Jericho @ WM 26, Edge/Ziggler @ Royal Rumble 2011, Smackdown Elimination Chamber @ Elimination Chamber 2011, Rhodes/Mysterio @ WM XXVII, HHH/Taker @ WM XXVII, Christian/Del Rio Ladder Match @ Extreme Rules 2011, EVERY Orton/Christian Match of 2011, Smackdown Money In The Bank & Punk/Cena @ Money In The Bank 2011, Cena/Punk/Del Rio @ Hell In A Cell 2011, Cena/Del Rio Last Man Standing Match @ Vengeance 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oresama Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Do you just want to watch the main shows? If not, I’d definitely suggest that you check out WWE's (new) development territory; Florida Championship Wrestling. It isn't on TV outside of Florida but full shows are uploaded to YouTube every Monday, I can't post a link but they're easy enough to find. Here's a couple of my favourite matches from FCW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P-HvZI--1A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg-Yk6gdJAU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8DPfIZ0sM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRm-2loMupM (check out their other matches for the FCW 15 Championship too) Except for Kaval. All of them are still under contract and most are actually on the main roster now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozay. Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I will just stay in top american promotions here: In WWE, the guys I like to watch right now are CM Punk, Christian, Mark Henry, Cody Rhodes, Alberto Del Rio, Daniel Bryan, Sin Cara, Hunico (who I believe will be great in his new gimmick) and Sheamus. May I suggest, in FCW, Dean Ambrose above all others. Antonio Cesaro is also a good option. ROH has some great wrestlers. Among my favourites are Chris Hero (if he didn't signed with WWE yet), Davey Richards, El Generico, TJ Perkins, The Briscoes, Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin, and Jay Lethal. Mike Bennett is also great, as he is the anti-ROH wrestler (deliberately, it's not a fact that he can't work). TNA has some great talent. I suggest Kurt Angle (obviously, he still got it), AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Christopher Daniels, Beer Money Inc. (they are separated now, but both are great), Bully Ray and Kazarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWF WrestleFest Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm kind of in the same boat. I watched both WWF and WCW regularly until WCW closed. Then I watched WWE until like 2002 or 2003 and just lost interest. I started watching WWE and TNA again around 2010, and much prefer TNA. I recommend you watch TNA instead of WWE. They cater more to older fans while WWE's gone PG. Plus, a lot of your favorites, Sting, Flair, Scott Steiner, are still wrestling there. And right now's the perfect time to start watching. They just had their WrestleMania (Bound for Glory) and are restarted a bunch of their storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petos Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Everyone's posted a HUGE list of matches so I'll just chime in and recommend Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan matches from 2010. They had a few great matches and they worked extremely well together. Other than that, I agree with everything Joel said. If you have the interest to check out smaller promotions, give ROH a try. It's a lot less silly than a lot of the stuff you see in WWE and TNA these days. EDIT: Here are a couple of Bryan vs Ziggler matches. They also had a great match at Bragging Rights 2010, but I can't seem to find it on YouTube. RAW (with CM Punk on commentary): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4y4l51LmJc SmackDown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vELphdRI5Gc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbIA_xTgepg&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGION Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 1. Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Wade Barrett, The Usos (Their tag-team matches are mostly awesome), Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, The Miz, Alberto Del Rio (but just on SmackDown. He was much better bach then). 2. Because cruseweight Wrestling died out. 3. Too many. Just a few of this year: John Cena vs. CM Punk - Money in the Bank Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler - Royal Rumble Undertaker vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania Randy Orton vs. Christian - SmackDown - Steel Cage Curt Hawkins vs. Trent Barreta - WWE Superstars (completly underrated matches) Ted Dibiase vs. Randy Orton - SmackDown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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